Is mint better than debian

[apoyusiken]

so recently ive been using debian because it's reliable but since mint is also debian based is it "better"  and should I consider switching in the future?

 

problems i have with debian so far:

 

it requires password and permission for everything

no scroll lock

no autoscroll

hard to run initialization scripts

not particularly user friendly (like on windows you could create text files by right click)

edge is quirky

 

I thought I would solve these manually. Would mint be a good switch? I'm mainly looking for reliability. I'm happy to solve problems once butI dont wanna constantly have problems.

[Eigenvektor]

That's like asking whether chocolate or vanilla is better.

 

Depends on what you're after. Debian if you want stability over everything else (e.g. running a server). Mint might be more desktop friendly.

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, apoyusiken said:

it requires password and permission for everything

All Linux distributions require authentication for root actions, i.e. installing or updating packages. In normal use it shouldn't come up much unless you have some wonky file permissions...

1 hour ago, apoyusiken said:

no scroll lock

Probably a keyboard mapping issue. Unlikely to have anything to do with Debian specifically.

1 hour ago, apoyusiken said:

hard to run initialization scripts

If you're referring to systemd services, mint also uses systemd.

1 hour ago, apoyusiken said:

not particularly user friendly (like on windows you could create text files by right click)

This depends on your desktop environment/file manager, there are multiple options for both distributions.

1 hour ago, apoyusiken said:

edge is quirky

Not sure what you're referring to here.

 

In my experience using Debian or another major distribution barely matters if you're running one of the most common desktop environments; those will influence your user experience way more than the underlying system.

[Windows7ge]

The upsides to going with Debian is it's very small footprint and ability to run on a very short list of processes. Which is great for weaker older computers.

 

Plain Debian like Bookworm isn't designed to hold your hand. It's a blank canvas with the fundamentals that let you build out your desktop the way you want it and sometimes that requires research. You can probably fix most of this list with enough time and investigation.

 

As for permissions. It's designed to be security conscious. Anything that requires root privileges means escalation in order to run. That is asking for your root password. There's always a balance between security and convenience. It is a trade-off. You can't always have both. (sometimes you can)

[RollyShed]

8 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

so recently ive been using debian because it's reliable but since mint is also debian based is it "better"  and should I consider switching in the future?

"So recently" meaning you have just started? I've been using Mint for well over a decade.

I install Mint on everything, over 100 installations to disks, and of those 60+ on laptops.

8 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

problems i have with debian so far:

 

it requires password and permission for everything

During setup you can tell it not to require a password for bootup. You only need a password for updates. I have a text file called PW and simply copy & paste for updates.

8 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

no scroll lock

no autoscroll

Those seem to be keyboard items.

I didn't know they existed as I've only been using computers for the past 50 years.

8 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

hard to run initialization scripts

not particularly user friendly (like on windows you could create text files by right click)

edge is quirky

"initialization scripts"?

 

As for right click menus, Mint is logical and quick, Windows is usually 3 clicks and a scroll to get the same thing done. To get a text file open, left click on the Text symbol on the Task Bay / Panel. In other words, set up the Task Bar with items you commonly use.

 

What do you mean by "edge is quirky". The edge of the screen or what?

8 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

I thought I would solve these manually. Would mint be a good switch? I'm mainly looking for reliability. I'm happy to solve problems once butI dont wanna constantly have problems.

Mint is reliable, Windows is most definitely not reliable.

[apoyusiken]

40 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

The upsides to going with Debian is it's very small footprint and ability to run on a very short list of processes. Which is great for weaker older computers.

 

Plain Debian like Bookworm isn't designed to hold your hand. It's a blank canvas with the fundamentals that let you build out your desktop the way you want it and sometimes that requires research. You can probably fix most of this list with enough time and investigation.

 

As for permissions. It's designed to be security conscious. Anything that requires root privileges means escalation in order to run. That is asking for your root password. There's always a balance between security and convenience. It is a trade-off. You can't always have both. (sometimes you can)

yea the iso was 600 mb for debian and 10gb for mint. but i dont understand what mint is about since it apparently basically debian and most of the things are about desktop environments? what is the point of mint then? i dont care about security i want maximum convenience.

[Windows7ge]

If you really break it down you can transform just about any distro into a functional clone of any other distro. When it comes down to it Linux is nothing more than a Kernel and a package manager. Almost everything is a package. You can even trade out your kernel for another if you are so inclined. There's no real limit to the customizability if you know how to do it.

 

But if you just want convenience...Knock yourself out with Mint, Mint MATE, look at Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Kubuntu, you can even give distros like PopOS, Manjaro, or Bazzite a try. See what gives you what you want.

[apoyusiken]

29 minutes ago, RollyShed said:

"So recently" meaning you have just started? I've been using Mint for well over a decade.

I install Mint on everything, over 100 installations to disks, and of those 60+ on laptops.

During setup you can tell it not to require a password for bootup. You only need a password for updates. I have a text file called PW and simply copy & paste for updates.

Those seem to be keyboard items.

I didn't know they existed as I've only been using computers for the past 50 years.

"initialization scripts"?

 

As for right click menus, Mint is logical and quick, Windows is usually 3 clicks and a scroll to get the same thing done. To get a text file open, left click on the Text symbol on the Task Bay / Panel. In other words, set up the Task Bar with items you commonly use.

 

What do you mean by "edge is quirky". The edge of the screen or what?

Mint is reliable, Windows is most definitely not reliable.

yea basically a week. initialization script : the scripts i wanna run on boot . i know mint is cool but the question is should i switch or customize. sorry for ambiguity, i mean ms edge. yea windows isnt reliable but i was so fed up and went with debian since it is thought to be the most reliable. 

[apoyusiken]

8 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

If you really break it down you can transform just about any distro into a functional clone of any other distro. When it comes down to it Linux is nothing more than a Kernel and a package manager. Almost everything is a package. You can even trade out your kernel for another if you are so inclined. There's no real limit to the customizability if you know how to do it.

 

But if you just want convenience...Knock yourself out with Mint, Mint MATE, look at Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Kubuntu, you can even give distros like PopOS, Manjaro, or Bazzite a try. See what gives you what you want.

yea the question is what option is the better one. i guess i should try mint. i use bazzite on rog ally and its decent. 

[Windows7ge]

Everyone's tastes are different. There's no guaranteed way to tell you strait up which distro will appeal best to you unless you yourself give them all a try. Those are just the most popular user friendly ones off the top of my head but I know more exist like PeppermintOS.

 

A number of these support live environments which let you try it out without installing so it saves you some of the trouble if you immediately hate some of them or you can test them all in a virtual machine although some of your input concerns may not pass through properly.

[Ralphred]

9 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

I'm happy to solve problems once but I don't wanna constantly have problems.

This is the way.

Linux is all about choice, this is one of the reasons I recommend Debian to people; you can basically install what you want. Don't like the "Debian desktop" (the default), install KDE, Cinnamon or Gnome, whatever you want, try them out, uninstall them if you don't like them, just keep a list of packages *you* installed with apt, so you can clear out the unneeded dependencies later.

 

I started using kde back around 2004, because it was a very similar interface to windows, I had to use windows professionally so kde gave me the smallest paradigm shift to deal with once getting home. I have minions to operate windows for me now so I just need to install TeamViewer . KDE has evolved since then, as has Windows, and each in differing directions, but from what you've complained about (right click context menu's and root authentication) these are more elegantly handled in kde.

 

The root authentication thing, I rub up against it when not using my own set-up. People tell you not to login as root, I do it all the time (not in a DE though) because if I'm about to manipulate a bunch of system files I don't need to be typing sudo, losing tab completion due to lack of privilege, and certainly not typing in a password more than once. The whole "sudo" thing is a multi "admin user" solution, if you are the only admin just set the root password and use su before you do admin things, if you can't even be bothered to do that just use "sudo su". Be sure to set-up some sensible console colouring though (you can do this with root's ~/.bashrc or ~/.bash_profile) so root console sessions are easily visible.

 

Once you find out "what you want" in regards to your computer's environment, there is nothing wrong with picking a distro that "supports that better" but there is always the issue that the more choices you let your distro's devs make for you the harder it gets to fix things if/when they do break or you want to go a little off piste.

[RollyShed]

35 minutes ago, apoyusiken said:

yea the iso was 600 mb for debian and 10gb for mint. but i dont understand what mint is about since it apparently basically debian and most of the things are about desktop environments? what is the point of mint then? i dont care about security i want maximum convenience.

Mint is about using a computer to do work with.

LibreOffice -

Documents - instruction manuals, writing books, information written for people to read.

Spreadsheets - to run a business or list items.

A lot of sound apps to learn the violin with (my partner).

Things such as Screenshot to add pictures to documents or documents to show people how to make things.

Web browsers, Firefox and Chromium.

 

If you insist on spelling everything with lower case one tends to put another meanings to things so Edge isn't the edge of the screen!!!

Why even think of using Edge?

 

We use our computers as tools to get things done with, not just as toys.

From the way you write (all lower case) you don't use a computer for work.

[apoyusiken]

5 minutes ago, Ralphred said:

This is the way.

Linux is all about choice, this is one of the reasons I recommend Debian to people; you can basically install what you want. Don't like the "Debian desktop" (the default), install KDE, Cinnamon or Gnome, whatever you want, try them out, uninstall them if you don't like them, just keep a list of packages *you* installed with apt, so you can clear out the unneeded dependencies later.

 

I started using kde back around 2004, because it was a very similar interface to windows, I had to use windows professionally so kde gave me the smallest paradigm shift to deal with once getting home. I have minions to operate windows for me now so I just need to install TeamViewer . KDE has evolved since then, as has Windows, and each in differing directions, but from what you've complained about (right click context menu's and root authentication) these are more elegantly handled in kde.

 

The root authentication thing, I rub up against it when not using my own set-up. People tell you not to login as root, I do it all the time (not in a DE though) because if I'm about to manipulate a bunch of system files I don't need to be typing sudo, losing tab completion due to lack of privilege, and certainly not typing in a password more than once. The whole "sudo" thing is a multi "admin user" solution, if you are the only admin just set the root password and use su before you do admin things, if you can't even be bothered to do that just use "sudo su". Be sure to set-up some sensible console colouring though (you can do this with root's ~/.bashrc or ~/.bash_profile) so root console sessions are easily visible.

 

Once you find out "what you want" in regards to your computer's environment, there is nothing wrong with picking a distro that "supports that better" but there is always the issue that the more choices you let your distro's devs make for you the harder it gets to fix things if/when they do break or you want to go a little off piste.

But still the thing i dont get is what a distro actually does. So the os is kernel + desktop environment? Where is the distro??

[apoyusiken]

5 minutes ago, RollyShed said:

Mint is about using a computer to do work with.

LibreOffice -

Documents - instruction manuals, writing books, information written for people to read.

Spreadsheets - to run a business or list items.

A lot of sound apps to learn the violin with (my partner).

Things such as Screenshot to add pictures to documents or documents to show people how to make things.

Web browsers, Firefox and Chromium.

 

If you insist on spelling everything with lower case one tends to put another meanings to things so Edge isn't the edge of the screen!!!

Why even think of using Edge?

 

We use our computers as tools to get things done with, not just as toys.

From the way you write (all lower case) you don't use a computer for work.

Dude sorry for the frustration :(. So you don't recommend mint? Edge is actually pretty cool if you aren't concerned with privacy. 

[RollyShed]

1 minute ago, apoyusiken said:

Dude sorry for the frustration :(. So you don't recommend mint? Edge is actually pretty cool if you aren't concerned with privacy. 

As said before I've only done over 100 Mint installations which includes 60+ laptops. I would think that definitely indicates a recommendation for Mint.

 

What you say about Edge, "if you aren't concerned with privacy." is a very good reason not to use it.

What do you mean by "actually pretty cool".

A web browser is a tool to find and display information. What "coolness" is there there?

[apoyusiken]

25 minutes ago, RollyShed said:

As said before I've only done over 100 Mint installations which includes 60+ laptops. I would think that definitely indicates a recommendation for Mint.

 

What you say about Edge, "if you aren't concerned with privacy." is a very good reason not to use it.

What do you mean by "actually pretty cool".

A web browser is a tool to find and display information. What "coolness" is there there?

edge is cool because it has to be to gain marketshare. It has very good performance and customizability. It has plenty of extensions too. And I have not been able to play some videos with firefox but edge works fine. 

[RollyShed]

6 minutes ago, apoyusiken said:

edge is cool because it has to be to gain marketshare.

It is the default Windows web browser which doesn't mean it is good to gain "market share".

 

How many other browsers have you tried?

Firefox, Chromium, Brave, Opera, Vivaldi, Tor (for real privacy), Safari (for Apple), Arc.

6 minutes ago, apoyusiken said:

 

It has very good performance and customizability.

What customization do you do?

6 minutes ago, apoyusiken said:

It has plenty of extensions too. And I have not been able to play some videos with firefox but edge works fine. 

Extensions? Which?

Which videos don't play on Firefox?

Or is it their website not working properly? And Yes, there are websites that don't work properly with Firefox. Our tax department's web site wouldn't work properly a few years ago. They eventually had to take it down and rewrite it.

[apoyusiken]

38 minutes ago, RollyShed said:

It is the default Windows web browser which doesn't mean it is good to gain "market share".

 

How many other browsers have you tried?

Firefox, Chromium, Brave, Opera, Vivaldi, Tor (for real privacy), Safari (for Apple), Arc.

What customization do you do?

Extensions? Which?

Which videos don't play on Firefox?

Or is it their website not working properly? And Yes, there are websites that don't work properly with Firefox. Our tax department's web site wouldn't work properly a few years ago. They eventually had to take it down and rewrite it.

i tried chrome firefox opera brave vivaldi and then edge (ive been using since 2020 and its fine) I actually dont care much about customization but i do vertical tabs and actually some other browsers might be better but edge is not so bad for customization. For the extensions chrome store pretty much has everything you need but chrome doesnt let you download from youtube and such so you bypass that but you could do it with other browsers too. I had problems with wcostream.tv on firefox. Also youtube was pretty bad on firefox and this was one of the reasons to choose edge in 2020. I'd say the main advantage of edge is performance though. I believe it is second after chrome but with many tabs it performs better. For privacy people it might not be optimal but i think it is better than chrome in virtually any way. Also apparently microsoft doesnt let you play videos in full performance outside of edge? I'm happy to try some browsers if you have any suggestions because as i said edge has some quirks on linux. 

[Potatoes__]

11 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

no autoscroll

 

Yo I'm gonna sound like I'm breaking the lengthy conversation here but are you talking about the mouse wheel autoscroll? If so I suppose there should be an option for it in edge://flags plus there is an autoscroll extension.

 

X11 insisted on using the middle (wheel) click for paste since times untold so middle wheel autoscroll was not a thing on Linux (as far as I understood the story at least). There are workarounds like the ones I suggested but expect some unwanted paste-s when using them on google docs or whatever. Wayland seem to finally circumvent this idiotic hardcoded limitation but I assume you are still on X11.

 

This BS drives me insane and I fear the moment when I paste some shitty meme into a piece of my work documentation.

[Ralphred]

1 hour ago, apoyusiken said:

Where is the distro??

It's essentially the collection of packages, and their respective config, that is available to you in your package manager, on top the collection of pre-configured and installed packages that make the basic version of said distro work. There are myriad configuration switch combinations that can be on or off for almost every piece of software you get to interact with in linux, and your "distro devs" deal with these switches whilst keeping an eye on the "overall experience" they are trying to present to users. The choices they [distro devs] make on their users behalf shape the end users experience, and the "distro" as a whole.

 

There are low level decisions (which init system to use, which network management tools), mid level decisions (do we include avahi support for CUPS? How much of the kde/plasma meta do we include in the "kde-desktop" package?) and there are high level decisions (what should the default desktop environment be? What should it's default font be? What should the background image be?).

 

So if you want s6 to be you init system with no support for cups included at all and dwm as your DE, why would you install Xubuntu?

[Ralphred]

4 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

X11 insisted on using the middle (wheel) click for paste since times untold

It wasn't even X11, it predates windows NT. It's also another reason I use minions (with ctrl+{x,c,v} "muscle memory") to operate windoze for me.

[apoyusiken]

25 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

Yo I'm gonna sound like I'm breaking the lengthy conversation here but are you talking about the mouse wheel autoscroll? If so I suppose there should be an option for it in edge://flags plus there is an autoscroll extension.

 

X11 insisted on using the middle (wheel) click for paste since times untold so middle wheel autoscroll was not a thing on Linux (as far as I understood the story at least). There are workarounds like the ones I suggested but expect some unwanted paste-s when using them on google docs or whatever. Wayland seem to finally circumvent this idiotic hardcoded limitation but I assume you are still on X11.

 

This BS drives me insane and I fear the moment when I paste some shitty meme into a piece of my work documentation.

bro any help on this will be appreciated but unfortunately ive tried the methods you suggested however they dont work

[RollyShed]

2 hours ago, Ralphred said:

It wasn't even X11, it predates windows NT. It's also another reason I use minions (with ctrl+{x,c,v} "muscle memory") to operate windoze for me.

I totally agree with Ctrl + z (step back one), x (cut), c (copy), v (paste), and F2 for re-titling a file or folder.

 

As for Youtube downloading, it was easy but Youtube have tried to block it. Yes, there is a downloader that I've got to work with Firefox.

 

Do you always add "ublock origin" to block ads? It is one of the first things I do when setting up a web browser.

[apoyusiken]

1 minute ago, RollyShed said:

I totally agree with Ctrl + z (step back one), x (cut), c (copy), v (paste), and F2 for re-titling a file or folder.

 

As for Youtube downloading, it was easy but Youtube have tried to block it. Yes, there is a downloader that I've got to work with Firefox.

 

Do you always add "ublock origin" to block ads? It is one of the first things I do when setting up a web browser.

youtube didnt run smoothly on firefox too. 

 

i just sign in to edge and it brings my extensions.

[RollyShed]

3 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

I had problems with wcostream.tv on firefox.

I've just tried it Firefox running beside Chromium. Both ran a video.