Theoretical design

[lonewolf252024]

I’m testing out a theoretical design using water and gravity to make an energy. Multiply are you using a small pump going to feed water up to a big tank that will eventually go through a small turbine water turbine and I was going to use some PC coolant liquid because I think it’s great. One reason is it might not actually contain bacteria like water yeah just let me know if I’m wrong but here’s a link to what I’ll be using. https://a.co/d/0qKayqq and how cold can it go 

[Jurrunio]

You're trying to make a fake infinit hydro power model?

[LogicalDrm]

If this is meant as experiment for school/uni, go for it. If not, you can make calculations for it on theoretical level to prove it wrong. The amount of energy required to get water above turbine is always greater than what turbine can generate.

[johnt]

This concept is called "water batteries," and it is used in several places. The net electrical usage results in power consumption (not a savings). It carries about a 75% efficiency, but it is considered renewable. The only reason it is profitable is because electricity is sold during the day at higher prices with higher demands, and the upper reservoir is restocked at night using pumps when the electricity rates are cheaper. This isn't a concept, it's a real thing.

 

Dams are my specialty.

[johnt]

2 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

The amount of energy required to get water above turbine is always greater than what turbine can generate.

Correct

[lonewolf252024]

I just want to know how cold it can go and if you ever have to replace the coolent 

 

[lonewolf252024]

I’ve done the math. I have 24 generators that are very small they USB small. They only write 10 W at 12 V each and the pump is 4 W 12 V and you can pump 130 gallons a  hour. The system has a volume of 2 litters the system would generate 240 watts with a loss of 30 percent of energy 168 watts of usable energy

[LogicalDrm]

6 minutes ago, johnt said:

This concept is called "water batteries," and it is used in several places. The net electrical usage results in power consumption (not a savings). It carries about a 75% efficiency, but it is considered renewable. The only reason it is profitable is because electricity is sold during the day at higher prices with higher demands, and the upper reservoir is restocked at night using pumps when the electricity rates are cheaper. This isn't a concept, it's a real thing.

 

Dams are my specialty.

Additionally, since most reservoirs are from natural sources (larger gathering plains or near mountains/snow), some of the reservoirs water gets there "free-of-charge". So if there needs to be pump to get water there, it's already more expenses than just having naturally filling dam.

[LogicalDrm]

6 minutes ago, lonewolf252024 said:

I just want to know how cold it can go and if you ever have to replace the coolent 

 

You don't want it to be much under surrounding temps. So nowhere near freezing. And unless it's sealed loop, it will require maintenance.

[johnt]

2 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Additionally, since most reservoirs are from natural sources (larger gathering plains or near mountains/snow), some of the reservoirs water gets there "free-of-charge". So if there needs to be pump to get water there, it's already more expenses than just having naturally filling dam.

This is all true. It is the basis of using dams to generate electricity because the method of collecting water is free and efficient. Nearly all existing dams have a natural drainage area. But there is a big problem in that most of the large rivers are already dammed and there are not many places to add new reservoirs that would create a meaningful storage supply.

 

Water storage falls under infrastructure and not "is it efficient?" People need water to exist, so the benefit of it is somewhat impossible to overlook (no matter how much it costs). Nearly all modern major dams are being proposed off-stream and require pumping water for a non-rainy day supply  This also helps with sediment accumulation and less disruption to tribal lands.

 

And terrain plays a huge role. You can only move water so far before you have to pump it up to keep moving it downstream. So there are cases where they store the water, generate it through a turbine, and that helps offset the cost to pump the water over a mountain. 

 

We are off topic for sure. 

[lonewolf252024]

It is not a real dam it a minture model dam and it is a close loop system that will be stored in my garage temps can get as low as 25 degrees

[lonewolf252024]

All i am asking will the pc anti freeze liquid that I put a link to on my first post will survive the freezing temps of 25°

[johnt]

3 minutes ago, lonewolf252024 said:

It is not a real dam it a minture model dam and it is a close loop system that will be stored in my garage temps can get as low as 25 degrees

The temps of what? Are you trying to do this to cool a CPU?

[lonewolf252024]

No to make energy if you’ve been reading in comments and all that and the tree will be 25 or higher that’s Fahrenheit

[johnt]

3 minutes ago, lonewolf252024 said:

No to make energy if you’ve been reading in comments and all that and the tree will be 25 or higher that’s Fahrenheit

I would not use T1000 for your use case. AIOs are not meant to run at 130 gallons per hour, they usually operate at 15 or less. Their website does not say anything about low temperatures. It's just not a good product for what you are trying to do.

 

Why don't you just use modern anti freeze from Toyota or GM? It is actually meant for high flow rates and extremely low temperatures. You can normally purchase a gallon from Toyota for $25. Or you can just buy the green stuff from Walmart for $10 or whatever it costs now.

[CasualExtremist]

Like this, but in garage? Scaling functional designs always introduces additional headache. These types of devices are not for efficiency in any face-value sense. They "balance" electrical grid loads by pumping water in when electricity is in overall excess and releasing water through the turbines to give the grid additional energy during times of energy scarcity. It is very unlikely that your household's electricity demand needs balancing of this kind.

 

If you do this at all, it would at most be for your own recreational enjoyment. And be prepared for water leaks, mold, and corrosion where you least expect it. There will be no economical benefit in this design.

[CasualExtremist]

The more I think about this, the more it confuses me.

Either you build a sealed loop with an extra turbine which has inefficiencies that you'll never make back up. Extra energy needed to pump fluid through turbine > energy turbine generates. Therefore added cost with no means of return on investment.

or

You have the delayed reservoir/battery setup and you try to optimize/balance power loads on a micro level. 

 

Either way, I am not sure the viability in the slightest. I am just going to assume that is an environmental bias on my side and you have a logical reason to pursue this.

 

If your only concern is not freezing your loop, I'd look at the automotive industry for coolant additives. Like Generic Antifreeze + WaterWetter. For really low temps, you can go 70% Antifreeze 30% water. Here is the generic antifreeze's spec sheet that states freezing points for 50/50 mix with water (pg12)

 

This overview of Freeze Point Depression might also be useful for you to theorize a good mixture of fluids for your purpose.

 

Late Edit: Might look at water tower coolers for coal plants as another source of inspiration. I know ideally you'd want a sealed loop, but thought of it while contemplating this topic.

Edited February 25, 2025 by CasualExtremist
really late addition of info

[Blue4130]

On 2/24/2025 at 2:56 PM, lonewolf252024 said:

No to make energy if you’ve been reading in comments and all that and the tree will be 25 or higher that’s Fahrenheit

But you are using more energy than you are making, so you are really not making energy...

[TatamiMatt]

First and foremost, why do you want to do this, "to make energy" is impossible, and if youre looking to make electricity, then youll be using more than you generate just to run the thing

[BringBackBlinkCode]

On 2/24/2025 at 12:58 AM, lonewolf252024 said:

I’m testing out a theoretical design using water and gravity to make an energy. Multiply are you using a small pump going to feed water up to a big tank that will eventually go through a small turbine water turbine and I was going to use some PC coolant liquid because I think it’s great. One reason is it might not actually contain bacteria like water yeah just let me know if I’m wrong but here’s a link to what I’ll be using. https://a.co/d/0qKayqq and how cold can it go 

you wont be creating energy, you will be recouping energy stored by the pump, you lose energy to heat from work performed. properly mixed and treated coolant will not grow bacteria, i use water wetter, it makes the water, wetter, designed to cool drag cars. also adding a silver mesh screen before your reseivoir should act as a biocidal filter. 

in my later years i worked as a slurpee technician, leaking is all about patience and quality of your connections. I learned my lesson after being covered in orange syrup once or twice. 

one day i wanna do a video using modded c02 equipment and run doom on a slurpee /icee (litterally same machine) machine... 

 

[TatamiMatt]

3 minutes ago, BringBackBlinkCode said:

i use water wetter, it makes the water, wetter

my brain...

[whispous]

6 hours ago, BringBackBlinkCode said:

in my later years i worked as a slurpee technician,

Best part of this thread right here

[Blue4130]

10 hours ago, BringBackBlinkCode said:

it makes the water, wetter,
 

About as silly as thinking that the OP is making energy.

[BringBackBlinkCode]

13 hours ago, TatamiMatt said:

my brain...

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/red-line-watterwetter-antifreeze-additive-reduces-coolant-temperatures-by-as-much-as-30-deg.-f-12-oz.-80204/7120012-p?product_channel=local&store=8660&adtype=pla&product_channel=Local&store_code=8660&&&&&gclid=4e7b848b108812d8f240e334d76e4e58&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=4e7b848b108812d8f240e334d76e4e58&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=b_shopping_all_performance%2Ffunctional%2Fchemicals_gen_gen_gen_evergreen_eng_aap_us_all&utm_term=4581115209899194&utm_content=Bing_All_Performance %26 Functional Chemicals_Radiator Treatments


its a real product, and it works, especially in this application ,  tank turbines and slurpee machines... basic electronics and cooling design is fairly universal  i used to use it in colorado w my gti , to avoid freeze issues i dunno that was 17 years ago

[Blue4130]

3 hours ago, BringBackBlinkCode said:

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/red-line-watterwetter-antifreeze-additive-reduces-coolant-temperatures-by-as-much-as-30-deg.-f-12-oz.-80204/7120012-p?product_channel=local&store=8660&adtype=pla&product_channel=Local&store_code=8660&&&&&gclid=4e7b848b108812d8f240e334d76e4e58&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=4e7b848b108812d8f240e334d76e4e58&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=b_shopping_all_performance%2Ffunctional%2Fchemicals_gen_gen_gen_evergreen_eng_aap_us_all&utm_term=4581115209899194&utm_content=Bing_All_Performance %26 Functional Chemicals_Radiator Treatments


its a real product, and it works, especially in this application ,  tank turbines and slurpee machines... basic electronics and cooling design is fairly universal  i used to use it in colorado w my gti , to avoid freeze issues i dunno that was 17 years ago

Nobody is claiming that it isn't a real product. BUT it doesn't make water "wetter". All it does is reduce surface tension.