Best am4 cpu?

[Cramig88]

Budget (including currency): infinite 

Country: USA

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Games, mining, overclocking, server management, basically work and play

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): 

-crosshair viii

-am4 socket required

-4 Corsair vengeance 18cl@3600 (maybe 3200) I forget, think it’s 3600 though, 64gb total

 

been reading stuff on am4 processors and I’m kinda confused

pc has a 5900x in it, strix 4090 OC, 6700 xt, 6600, and a quadro 4000 rtx

anyways rhe 5900x is 12 core and 24 threads, 4.8 max boost (whatever it was overclocked, killed it hence the need to replace). Forget what size the L1/2 sizes are

Meanwhile the 5950x has 16/32 and 4.9 max boost. Assuming here that this would be the powerhouse cpu right?  That’s only due to more cores and threads - 100mhz isn’t that big of a change considering I had the 5900x OCd at 5.2ghz, excessive watercooling setup

now I’m confused as there’s a 5800x3D. I guess it uses 3d NAND tech for the L2 cache, cool. But we’re at 8 cores and 16 threads…. 4.5ghz max boost

so the 5950x would clearly be a slight upgrade, but why not right?  I don’t want to do “brain surgery” again so might as well go big or don’t bother - again price isn’t a concern

the price difference for the 5800x3d is actually cheaper than the 5950x

between the 5950x 16/32 and the 5800x3d 8/16 not to mention slower clock… I’d figure the 5950x would logically be the choice

 

can anybody offer some insight as to why I should consider the 5800?  It’s like 60$ cheaper - so what’s the big deal with 3d?  I already have a powerhouse of GPU power…. Why would I “want” half the cores/threads and slower clocks?

a little clarity would help on this. Either will be overclocked so naturally 4.9 and 16/32 will provide more headroom and stability, right?

genuinely confused guys/ladies. Any input would be helpful

 

if you had the money and equipment what would you get, plus why?

thanks!

 

 

[Shimejii]

Mining is not much of a thing anymore, and neither is overclocking, very few 5000 cpus make it to be fully stable without having issues or dying.

 

5800x3D there pretty much isnt any wiggle room.

 

What work do you do? Because that will decide what cpu to get. Gaming, 5800x3D (or if you want to save a bit 5700x3D) hands down crushes anything on AM4.

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, Cramig88 said:

can anybody offer some insight as to why I should consider the 5800?

The 5800X3D's extra cache makes memory performance irrelevant, and for games that scale well with memory performance, it can lead to a massive performance uplift (over 40% compared to the 5950X). If you need multicore performance, it's not the right chip, but if you're going to be primarily gaming it's the best option on AM4. 

 

 

That said, I'd probably just save up here and go AM5 in the future. Upgrading from a 5900X isn't really gonna get you a whole lot of extra performance, so might as well put that money towards something you'd actually notice in a few months instead.

[GuiltySpark_]

The only CPUs on that platform that won’t be a liability for a 4090 are the x3D parts. The non-x3D models simply aren’t fast enough in more situations (assuming you’re concerned with gaming). 
 

If you want to get the most out of that card, that’s what you’d need. 
 

That being said, I’d consider not upgrading to anything and waiting until you can move to the latest platform. (AM5)

[Cramig88]

9 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

The only CPUs on that platform that won’t be a liability for a 4090 are the x3D parts. The non-x3D models simply aren’t fast enough in more situations (assuming you’re concerned with gaming). 
 

If you want to get the most out of that card, that’s what you’d need. 
 

That being said, I’d consider not upgrading to anything and waiting until you can move to the latest platform. (AM5)

I already have the am4 equipment, perhaps I didn’t mention the cpu (5900x) died - whoops. So between the RAM at 400$ or so (roughly 200$ for a 2 pack, times two) plus a 400$ motherboard with a custom ekwb waterblock not to mention all the work put into the watercooling…. Might as well pop in the best AM4 chip money can buy

when I decide or see the need to goto ddr5 chances are I’ll end up with a threadripper. This machine will just be another server in my network

 

as for now with a g9 and multiple other monitors, gaming is a priority but as mentioned will be retired to a server. Although probably not for another 5-10 years, should I feel the need to upgrade an already-beast of a machine

[Cramig88]

16 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

The 5800X3D's extra cache makes memory performance irrelevant, and for games that scale well with memory performance, it can lead to a massive performance uplift (over 40% compared to the 5950X). If you need multicore performance, it's not the right chip, but if you're going to be primarily gaming it's the best option on AM4. 

 

 

That said, I'd probably just save up here and go AM5 in the future. Upgrading from a 5900X isn't really gonna get you a whole lot of extra performance, so might as well put that money towards something you'd actually notice in a few months instead.

The 4090 itself has 24g of gddr6 and 16384 cuda’s. There isn’t a game out there I haven’t tried which it struggles with. 
 

and we’re already beyond 180fps on max at 5120x2440 with RTX so… my desire to goto ddr5 seems like throwing everything in the trash and starting over. Senseless if ya ask me

not being rude, just saying

[Cramig88]

26 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Mining is not much of a thing anymore, and neither is overclocking, very few 5000 cpus make it to be fully stable without having issues or dying.

 

5800x3D there pretty much isnt any wiggle room.

 

What work do you do? Because that will decide what cpu to get. Gaming, 5800x3D (or if you want to save a bit 5700x3D) hands down crushes anything on AM4.

Mining is just passive income, not a huge concern but with the amount of equipment, a 1500w Corsair platinum, why not?

 

but yeah gaming sorta for now, leaning into enterprise server status later on. But at that point I’ll just end up with a thread ripper or more. Heck, if she holds up I might just use it as a gaming pc and do the ripper as a server. 
 

what do I do? Active Directory, dns roles, list goes on. At the end of the day she mines and with all the water cooling / heat dissipation it keeps my house warm during the winter months just fine

plus my snake lives in there, keeps him nice and warm all the same

[Cramig88]

Still on the fence

 

the 4090 is unstoppable, handles anything I throw at it

im just torn between the idea of 16/32 and higher clock versus 8/16 being slower yet has a 3d cache. Again cost isn’t a problem

 

dono

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, Cramig88 said:

The 4090 itself has 24g of gddr6 and 16384 cuda’s. There isn’t a game out there I haven’t tried which it struggles with. 

And? That's kinda meaningless if it's spending a decent chunk of its life at idle waiting for the CPU to tell it to do something. Going for a 7800X3D will genuinely be a night and day upgrade, especially in more modern games that are insanely CPU bottlenecked (Jedi: Survivors, for instance, would only run smoothly without massive microstutters on the 7800X3D, at least at launch). There aren't many instances where a 4090 is much faster than a 4080 and not CPU bottlenecked by a 5900X. 

 

8 minutes ago, Cramig88 said:

So between the RAM at 400$ or so (roughly 200$ for a 2 pack, times two) plus a 400$ motherboard with a custom ekwb waterblock

That is way more than you need to spend on this. $180 gets you a good enough RAM kit with enough RAM, you do not want 2 total kits or 4x32GB if you care about your sanity at all, and $150-200 is all you need to spend on a motherboard, $250 if you want something slightly fancier. As for a waterblock, you can reuse the AM4 block your currently using, or if you for whatever reason were using a monoblock (don't use a monoblock, they perform worse than standard waterblocks) you can get a HeatKiller Pro (one of the better performing blocks on the market) for about $70. Considering you can recoup ~$250 on your motherboard and RAM easily, this isn't too much of a concern IMO. 

[Shimejii]

2 minutes ago, Cramig88 said:

Mining is just passive income, not a huge concern but with the amount of equipment, a 1500w Corsair platinum, why not?

 

but yeah gaming sorta for now, leaning into enterprise server status later on. But at that point I’ll just end up with a thread ripper or more. Heck, if she holds up I might just use it as a gaming pc and do the ripper as a server. 
 

what do I do? Active Directory, dns roles, list goes on. At the end of the day she mines and with all the water cooling / heat dissipation it keeps my house warm during the winter months just fine

plus my snake lives in there, keeps him nice and warm all the same

Why not? Because if it uses more electricity then it actually makes money, its burning money rather then making you money. Unless you have a pretty beastly solar array or something like that, it makes absolutely 0 sense. Since most of them got nerfed, its not profitable afaik

 

i mean if money isnt an issue, then id say get a 7950x or 7800x3D. Get the absolute best system you can to pair with a 4090. Or wait a bit for the 9000 series cpus to launch.

[Cramig88]

46 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Why not? Because if it uses more electricity then it actually makes money, its burning money rather then making you money. Unless you have a pretty beastly solar array or something like that, it makes absolutely 0 sense. Since most of them got nerfed, its not profitable afaik

 

i mean if money isnt an issue, then id say get a 7950x or 7800x3D. Get the absolute best system you can to pair with a 4090. Or wait a bit for the 9000 series cpus to launch.

That’s ddr5 though, as mentioned I’d rather stick with what I have than replace everything. Upgrading/building a new system later is fine but why not make “this” the top end of ddr4?

[Cramig88]

58 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

And? That's kinda meaningless if it's spending a decent chunk of its life at idle waiting for the CPU to tell it to do something. Going for a 7800X3D will genuinely be a night and day upgrade, especially in more modern games that are insanely CPU bottlenecked (Jedi: Survivors, for instance, would only run smoothly without massive microstutters on the 7800X3D, at least at launch). There aren't many instances where a 4090 is much faster than a 4080 and not CPU bottlenecked by a 5900X. 

 

That is way more than you need to spend on this. $180 gets you a good enough RAM kit with enough RAM, you do not want 2 total kits or 4x32GB if you care about your sanity at all, and $150-200 is all you need to spend on a motherboard, $250 if you want something slightly fancier. As for a waterblock, you can reuse the AM4 block your currently using, or if you for whatever reason were using a monoblock (don't use a monoblock, they perform worse than standard waterblocks) you can get a HeatKiller Pro (one of the better performing blocks on the market) for about $70. Considering you can recoup ~$250 on your motherboard and RAM easily, this isn't too much of a concern IMO. 

Hm, makes a good point. The crosshair has a mono block on it, hence why I’m so about using the crosshair viii

 

ok how about this

5800x3d - less cores and threads, slower, why consider it? Benefits over a 5950x as that has more cores anyway

 

5950x - double everything and higher clock. Eh 60$ more, no biggie

 

so what’s the “hook”?  Everyone says 5800 yet it’s basically half the performance..?

single core v multiple core loads, where would I see a difference?  Far as my knowledge goes this would relate to running multiple processes for server applications - kinda the difference between a 4000 quadro versus idk a 3080. The quadro will rip through 3d studio max renderings where it sucks for gaming. Does math a lot better

 

so half the performance on paper is better just because of the 3d NAND cache(s)?

what’s the big selling point I guess…

 

wish I could just put down a poll and ppl could vote for one or the other 

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

And? That's kinda meaningless if it's spending a decent chunk of its life at idle waiting for the CPU to tell it to do something. Going for a 7800X3D will genuinely be a night and day upgrade, especially in more modern games that are insanely CPU bottlenecked (Jedi: Survivors, for instance, would only run smoothly without massive microstutters on the 7800X3D, at least at launch). There aren't many instances where a 4090 is much faster than a 4080 and not CPU bottlenecked by a 5900X.

I went from a 5950X to a 7800X3D and indeed it was night/day difference.

 

Hogwarts Legacy performance issues vanished (it was practically unplayable on ANY settings before) and Starfield had much less severe dips.  Its honestly the smoothest gaming experience I've ever had to date.

[Cramig88]

Well that’s just it, I’d like a balance of both

for example I have a 2u, u2? Rack server. Anyway dual Xeon, 24 dimms 386g registered ECC ram. 2.4ghz, I think the pair are 6790s?  The Mobo is a super micro X9DRW-3LNF+ so whatever the cap is for that model.

anyway it’s used as a storage “box”. Currently it’s just a media server and stores my junk. Not gonna bother with the details but probably a 100tb or more worth of storage across idk “5” drives - most are raid, 2 are single usb drives, whatever

 

no video card, it’s all operated via RDP

what I plan for it, meh another days story

anyway I notice it’s much faster on a bunch of tasks - unsurprising. Most notably on the fly transcoding. For some reason Nicehash only runs at 48-50% load. I imagine it’s using both CPU’s in that case

When it comes to cinebench, multi core performs as expected (for its age) and single is pfft, embarassing

 

so as my machine stands, a crapton of radiators/fans/gpu’s so I want a mix of the two?

but yeah in terms of mining, the pc is on all the time - as mentioned it heats my house, why not right?  Isn’t a “waste” of energy, I’m gaining passive income (not much but whatever) but it’s Deff keeping my family warm

 

as a “workstation” or gaming machine, 5950 or 5800x3d?

if I wanna do gaming is the answer 3d?  Or would a 5950 be a mix of both given the equipment at hand?

[Somerandomtechyboi]

55 minutes ago, Cramig88 said:

That’s ddr5 though, as mentioned I’d rather stick with what I have than replace everything. Upgrading/building a new system later is fine but why not make “this” the top end of ddr4?

The top end of ddr4 is a 14900ks which will crush the 5800x3d unless you are playing factorio or something which benifits a ton from the extra cache

 

The reason noone ever looks at the 14900k and ks is because theyre a complete joke when the 5800x3d and 7800x3d are comparable in performance for most games and are alot more power efficient

 

If money doesnt matter and you dont give a flying shit about value go buy a 14900ks direct die with an iceman block you can buy off aliexpress and 64gb ballistix kits for micron 16gbit bdie to run at 4200-4500 gear 1, even better if you can build a phase change system for the cpu cause then youll be able to do 6ghz+ allcore cause no more thermal limits and probably clock the rams + ring higher due to the lower temps but i wouldnt bother if it cant run < -50c under load

 

 

If you just game buy a 5800x3d and buy a b550 aorus master/vision d cause apparently x570 cant bclk oc properly

 

If you need the extra cores buy a 5950x

 

If yes buy a 7950x3d and an x670e gene

 

 

With an unlimited budget id just build a phase change system capable of < -100c under load, lower the temps the less power the cpu draws = more clocks, but then id be kinda stuck between a binned 14900ks and a 7800x3d cause at those temps 7ghz+ is probably possible with a 14900ks though probably >1.6v where the x3d chips just straight up die at >1.5v for whatever reason

[Alex Atkin UK]

22 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

The top end of ddr4 is a 14900ks which will crush the 5800x3d unless you are playing factorio or something which benifits a ton from the extra cache

That remains to be seen given the recent problems with them crashing, potentially degrading due to being pushed too hard.

 

I wouldn't be considering the 13900K or 14900K chips until Intel release their findings on what is going on.

[RONOTHAN##]

1 hour ago, Cramig88 said:

5800x3d - less cores and threads, slower, why consider it?

Because it isn't slower, at least in games. Ignore the clock speeds, they don't tell the whole story. If you're going to be spending a good percentage of your time in things like video renders or other multi core renders, then sure, the 5950X is the better pick, but if you're gaming the 5800X3D really is unbeat on AM4. 

 

1 hour ago, Cramig88 said:

Everyone says 5800 yet it’s basically half the performance..?

You can't say it's half the performance, not everything scales linearly with extra cores. A lot of games perform nearly identically on a 5600X and a 5950X despite the 10 extra cores, so the extra cores mean nothing if you're not using them. In Cinebench, sure it's half the performance, but in a game it's arguably the other way around. 

[Cramig88]

20 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

If you just game buy a 5800x3d and buy a b550 aorus master/vision d cause apparently x570 cant bclk oc properly

 

If you need the extra cores buy a 5950x

 

If yes buy a 7950x3d and an x670e gene

 

 

With an unlimited budget id just build a phase change system capable of < -100c under load, lower the temps the less power the cpu draws = more clocks, but then id be kinda stuck between a binned 14900ks and a 7800x3d cause at those temps 7ghz+ is probably possible with a 14900ks though probably >1.6v where the x3d chips just straight up die at >1.5v for whatever reason

There we go

 

Minus direct die, I do have more than enough cooling. I mean, forget the term but I’m at the point I can’t cool “more” bc we’re at equilibrium (room temp versus equipment). I’d rather not waste a cpu cause I mess up DD somehow - kinda a big risk lol. Yeah if I was in a OC competition using dry ice/co2, sure but meh not that far lol

anyway, u make a very bleeping valid point in regard to phase changes and the b550 versus the x570. I HAVE indeed noticed bclk issues and other “anomalies” to which didnt make since until you made such mention… 

 

as I said I’m stuck with the board since I have the monoblock. Urgh, I forget how much it costed but yeah…. Sure I use flexible tubing (that hard stuff is dumb) but there’s like a gallon in my loop, over 4 liters (yeah)

 

so big question, more cores or less? I’m stuck with AMD (don’t wanna replace the Mobo and go intel)

Still half and half - yes amd is very power efficient. Intel?  I worry when I see 130w on my xeons!

[Motifator]

My 5900X could back in the day come somewhat close to a lowly clocked 5950X stock no boost when it was clocked towards 4.5 all core. It was one of the prime CPUs of its heyday but ever since the newer chips came in, that has no longer been the case.

Since you already have an AM4 build, get the X3D and call it a day... there should be no pondering questions at all.

[Cramig88]

So many knowledgeable replies…. Everyone gets a high five? lol I can only choose one good answer/solution

can i OC the 5800?

 

it would be easier to write down the numbers on cpu-Z and OCing in general

 

voting for the 5800

 

any objections?

[Cramig88]

Only asking cause I read a review and person said no

[Alex Atkin UK]

Indeed its a no brainer given existing parts to go 5800X3D, its the best that platform can do for gaming.

 

I don't think the upgrade to a 7800X3D would be worth it right now given 9000 series its seemingly not far away and switching to Intel would be insane given their current problems, plus its a dead-end platform.

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, Cramig88 said:

can i OC the 5800?

Technically yes if you really know what you're doing, but it's sketchy at best and doesn't really give any performance improvements. I wouldn't bother. For context, this is roughly the process to OC this chip (the 5700X3D and 5800X3D behave near identically):

 

Also I should mention that overclocking with BCLK like you need to do for these chips isn't really possible on X570 boards like the Crosshair without a lot of effort (the chipset's SATA controller stops initializing above 100.2MHz and the chipset in general doesn't initialize above 102MHz unless you disable half of its functionality, and even then it still gets weird).

[Alex Atkin UK]

I don't get the logic of wanting to OC for marginal improvement at the cost of games running worse than getting an X3D.

[Cramig88]

13 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

100.2MHz and the chipset in general doesn't initialize above 102MHz unless you disable half of its functionality, and even then it still gets weird).

I have noticed

On one OC (I have them saved on a flash drive) I got to 100.75, 4.6ghz and docp 

say the least it took a lot of trial and error to get it to work, and as stated, disabling lots of stuff. 
I scrapped the idea due to instability - I think, THINK it was related to sudden phase changes

my cpu under load would be fine then I’d hit 102c from idk 80c. Blah blah math, 4.9. Then the temp would go back down instantly to 80c or less and “blow up” (immediate shut down)