Desktop DDR4 2933MHz JEDEC doesn't exist?

[AlfaProto]

Preface

My 3 original configuration, Z77, Z170 and Z270, XMP fails after 2-3 years, requiring me to go JEDEC profile.

 

I  had a second PC (Z170), and re-build my cousin's PC (Z270), while using XMP capable RAM kit, I didn't opt for it, instead of ran JEDEC profile. Literally, zero issues, no BSOD, nor a stick of RAM outright fails.

 

So XMP doesn't work for me at all.

 

FYI

JEDEC profile: It runs at that speed, timing and latency at 1.2V.

XMP profile: It runs at that speed, timing and latency at 1.35V.

 

Switch to MHz to GHz.

 

No, most RAM uses the XMP speed on their spec sheet.

 

Crucial, you're literally the first party, and  I have no idea why doesn't list the base speed.

https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/cp2k32g4dfra32a

 

Corsair is completely out of the list, most of their kit is the original JEDEC 2.133 GHz.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/p/memory/cmw64gx4m2e3200c16/vengeancea-rgb-pro-64gb-2-x-32gb-ddr4-dram-3200mhz-c16-memory-kit-a-black-cmw64gx4m2e3200c16#tab-techspecs

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/p/memory/cmk64gx4m2d3000c16/vengeancea-lpx-64gb-2-x-32gb-ddr4-dram-3000mhz-c16-memory-kit-black-cmk64gx4m2d3000c16#tab-techspecs

 

Nope, time again has proven Intel with XMP barely do any performance improvement, it's like 5%, unless it's really, really, really, memory speed and latency sensitive. Since, the MC is literally alongside the core itself, and not separated.

 

The Topic

 

So I'm planning to upgrade my second PC from 2x8GB to either 2x16GB or 2x32GB, because my sibling's activity nearly used 13 out of 16GB, running Firefox, Bluestack, and another Gacha games.

 

I've decided to opt and find the highest rated speed that the 10700K could support: 2.933 GHz. Heck, even my 10850K support that speed, so there's literally ZERO issue, I don't even have 10th Core i3 or i5, which doesn't support 2.933 natively.

 

I thought it's pretty late and 'EoL' for DDR4, so maybe 2.933 sticks are more readily available---but nope. Even when Coffee Lake/ Refresh was a thing, I thought higher JEDEC would appear right around the corner, but nope.

 

I really don't mind those more pedestrian RAM and just buy some heat spreader.

 

Yes, I've seen 2.933 DDR4 RAM, but they are ECC.

[191x7]

Why not just load an XMP profile on a faster RAM and decrease the clock manually?

[Tetras]

It has always been really rare for some reason, maybe because once we progressed past a standard for 2666, it is simpler for the memory manufacturers to just bin everything @ 3200.

 

If you buy it from Crucial's configurator and it doesn't work (i.e. no profile exists for 1466/2933 on the 3200 stick), I'm pretty sure they have to refund you in their T&Cs.

[podkall]

So what's the problem again?

 

15 minutes ago, AlfaProto said:

My 3 original configuration, Z77, Z170 and Z270, XMP fails after 2-3 years, requiring me to go JEDEC profile.

 

I  had a second PC (Z170), and re-build my cousin's PC (Z270), while using XMP capable RAM kit, I didn't opt for it, instead of ran JEDEC profile. Literally, zero issues, no BSOD, nor a stick of RAM outright fails.

 

So XMP doesn't work for me at all.

and what CPU was it running with?

[Zando_]

Set the voltage, speed, and main 4 timings printed on the stick. Leave all sub-timings on auto, let the motherboard sort them. That'll fix 90% of your problems with XMP (unless you're running RAM fast enough that your IMC just can't handle it to begin with), and upping the voltage ~200-500mV (So 1.37-1.4v if the XMP voltage is 1.35) will fix 9%. 1% will be funky issues that are hard to sort out, but they are very rare. Usually it's just a motherboard not liking the XMP profile's sub-timings, or a CPU IMC needing a little more voltage to do the job. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

8 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

and upping the voltage ~200-500mV

thats 0.2-0.5v

1.35v -> 1.55v/1.85v

 

the former is still reasonable and actually kinda low for 4400-4600 or whatever cometlake imc is capable of

 

the latter is kinda stupid unless you are running max freq and/or ridicolously tight timings

 

i assume you meant 20-50mv =p

 

 

as for 2933 jedec just buy some 3200c22 jedec sticks be it heatspreader or generic bare green/black pcb and itll probably auto run at 2933

[Zando_]

12 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

hats 0.2-0.5v

1.35v -> 1.55v/1.85v

 

the former is still reasonable and actually kinda low for 4400-4600 or whatever cometlake imc is capable of

 

the latter is kinda stupid unless you are running max freq and/or ridicolously tight timings

 

i assume you meant 20-50mv =p

Oh thanks lol, I derped on the conversion from volts -> millivolts . 

[porina]

2 hours ago, Tetras said:

It has always been really rare for some reason, maybe because once we progressed past a standard for 2666, it is simpler for the memory manufacturers to just bin everything @ 3200.

Probably that.

 

 

I'd suggest looking at Kingston. This is their UK site but I you can try finding the regional equivalent.

https://www.kingston.com/unitedkingdom/en/memory/client/ddr4-3200mts-non_ecc-unbuffered-dimm

 

I found them when looking for JEDEC ram for my laptop. They're the only ones that let you pick configuration, so I got some sweet 2Rx8 modules. Keep well away from 1Rx16.

 

The datasheet doesn't show if they include lower JEDEC profiles but I'd be surprised if they didn't. Give me a moment and I'll extract the SPD table from my laptop ram as example.

 

Edit: 

Yup, it has JEDEC profiles for 2933, 3066, 3200. Probably lower but I'd have to get Thaiphoon Burner to try and read that.

[AlfaProto]

20 hours ago, 191x7 said:

Why not just load an XMP profile on a faster RAM and decrease the clock manually?

It's still running at 1.35V.

 

20 hours ago, Tetras said:

It has always been really rare for some reason, maybe because once we progressed past a standard for 2666, it is simpler for the memory manufacturers to just bin everything @ 3200.

 

If you buy it from Crucial's configurator and it doesn't work (i.e. no profile exists for 1466/2933 on the 3200 stick), I'm pretty sure they have to refund you in their T&Cs.

My Crucial Ballistix for my 10850K is 2.666 base, I highly doubt they sell 2.933.

20 hours ago, podkall said:

So what's the problem again?

 

and what CPU was it running with?

Exception of the Z77, which was running an i5.

 

The rest is running 6700K, my cousin's PC ran on 7700K.

20 hours ago, Zando_ said:

Set the voltage, speed, and main 4 timings printed on the stick. Leave all sub-timings on auto, let the motherboard sort them. That'll fix 90% of your problems with XMP (unless you're running RAM fast enough that your IMC just can't handle it to begin with), and upping the voltage ~200-500mV (So 1.37-1.4v if the XMP voltage is 1.35) will fix 9%. 1% will be funky issues that are hard to sort out, but they are very rare. Usually it's just a motherboard not liking the XMP profile's sub-timings, or a CPU IMC needing a little more voltage to do the job. 

This is all assuming I can get a POST, and it's pretty stupid if 1.37 V works, but then, few months down the road, it fails, and i have to up to 1.39 V.

 

It's also stupid when if BIOS update, or reset, I have to figure everything out again, not worth my time to tweak. Plus, it's unlike OCing your refresh rate at a certain resolution.

No, based on my experience, it's preferred to run it at stock, and attempt to find the highest rated.

18 hours ago, porina said:

Probably that.

 

 

I'd suggest looking at Kingston. This is their UK site but I you can try finding the regional equivalent.

https://www.kingston.com/unitedkingdom/en/memory/client/ddr4-3200mts-non_ecc-unbuffered-dimm

 

I found them when looking for JEDEC ram for my laptop. They're the only ones that let you pick configuration, so I got some sweet 2Rx8 modules. Keep well away from 1Rx16.

 

The datasheet doesn't show if they include lower JEDEC profiles but I'd be surprised if they didn't. Give me a moment and I'll extract the SPD table from my laptop ram as example.

 

Edit: 

Yup, it has JEDEC profiles for 2933, 3066, 3200. Probably lower but I'd have to get Thaiphoon Burner to try and read that.

Yeah, Kingston Value props up from my search but, most of them are discontinued or outside from my country. . .

[191x7]

3 minutes ago, AlfaProto said:

It's still running at 1.35V.

 

My Crucial Ballistix for my 10850K is 2.666 base, I highly doubt they sell 2.933.

Exception of the Z77, which was running an i5.

 

The rest is running 6700K, my cousin's PC ran on 7700K.

This is all assuming I can get a POST, and it's pretty stupid if 1.37 V works, but then, few months down the road, it fails, and i have to up to 1.39 V.

 

It's also stupid when if BIOS update, or reset, I have to figure everything out again, not worth my time to tweak. Plus, it's unlike OCing your refresh rate at a certain resolution.

No, based on my experience, it's preferred to run it at stock, and attempt to find the highest rated.

Yeah, Kingston Value props up from my search but, most of them are discontinued or outside from my country. . .

The RAM running on 1.35V is not what kills the RAM.

[Tetras]

1 hour ago, AlfaProto said:

My Crucial Ballistix for my 10850K is 2.666 base, I highly doubt they sell 2.933.

I don't think you can assume that from Ballistix.

 

Gaming memory does not usually have the full set of JEDEC profiles, because they program the SPD so that it can just boot. It is pretty rare that gaming memory will boot higher than 2666 (2666 is actually a fast one!).

[podkall]

2 hours ago, AlfaProto said:

Exception of the Z77, which was running an i5.

 

The rest is running 6700K, my cousin's PC ran on 7700K.

well these are quite old CPUs that are supported at 2133Mhz (7700k supporting 2400Mhz), if you were trying to run 3000Mhz and higher on these, it could be just that their memory controller wasn't advanced enough to take the stress of keeping up with such a fast RAM.

 

if that what's you were trying to run the XMP of 3000Mhz+ on

 

 

[AlfaProto]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:45 PM, podkall said:

well these are quite old CPUs that are supported at 2133Mhz (7700k supporting 2400Mhz), if you were trying to run 3000Mhz and higher on these, it could be just that their memory controller wasn't advanced enough to take the stress of keeping up with such a fast RAM.

 

if that what's you were trying to run the XMP of 3000Mhz+ on

Bruh, 6700K kit back then were up to 2.666 on XMP.

 

Late of 7700K introduced 3 GHz XMP, even back then, it was a waste of money to buy one. My cousin didn't buy 7700K pretty late, it was early, since he decided to splurge on upgrading his PC.

 

Plus, you assumed that most board supported 3 GHz+ XMP, which wasn't. In fact, my MSI Z170 didn't support it, only it's Z270 board.

 

Your history is incorrect.

On 3/14/2024 at 9:15 PM, 191x7 said:

The RAM running on 1.35V is not what kills the RAM.

I beg to differ. I had two kits failed due to XMP, and fails to POST with stock.

 

On 3/14/2024 at 10:16 PM, Tetras said:

I don't think you can assume that from Ballistix.

 

Gaming memory does not usually have the full set of JEDEC profiles, because they program the SPD so that it can just boot. It is pretty rare that gaming memory will boot higher than 2666 (2666 is actually a fast one!).

I cannot investigate this much, since I no longer own that kit.

 

That was pretty much Coffee Lake era of memory kit.

[podkall]

1 hour ago, AlfaProto said:

my MSI Z170 didn't support it

1 hour ago, AlfaProto said:

Your history is incorrect.

interesting.. perhaps it must have been some budget Z170, or needed a BIOS update?

 

[AlfaProto]

15 minutes ago, podkall said:

interesting.. perhaps it must have been some budget Z170, or needed a BIOS update?

 

Doesn't mean it's on the spec sheet, doesn't mean it's stable on that.

 

You think 2.8, 3, and 3.2 exist back when Skylake launched?

[podkall]

4 minutes ago, AlfaProto said:

Doesn't mean it's on the spec sheet, doesn't mean it's stable on that.

yes, that's a CPU issue, not a MB issue, which is what I said:

On 3/14/2024 at 4:45 PM, podkall said:

if you were trying to run 3000Mhz and higher on these, it could be just that their memory controller wasn't advanced enough to take the stress of keeping up with such a fast RAM.

 

but to clarify your questions:

 

On 3/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, AlfaProto said:

No, most RAM uses the XMP speed on their spec sheet.

because there's no point using JEDEC if your aim was to run at XMP anyway,

 

and then, what JEDEC speed the rams run, is usually few hundreds below that, 2133, 2400, 2666, 2933, 3200

 

yes, some RAM runs at 3200Mhz JEDEC, but it's usually a RAM that has like a 4000+ XMP or something like that,

 

you can easily buy a slightly faster RAM than you need if it's cheaper, for example if you want 2933 but 3200 cheaper, just get 3200 and run a slower XMP profile,

 

you mentioned failing RAM on OC, doesn't always have to be RAM's fault, could be of course, but it also could be the Motherboard, you know, given that they're in contact a Motherboard could cause RAM to fail when OC'd.

[AlfaProto]

13 minutes ago, podkall said:

yes, that's a CPU issue, not a MB issue, which is what I said:

 

because there's no point using JEDEC if your aim was to run at XMP anyway,

 

and then, what JEDEC speed the rams run, is usually few hundreds below that, 2133, 2400, 2666, 2933, 3200

 

yes, some RAM runs at 3200Mhz JEDEC, but it's usually a RAM that has like a 4000+ XMP or something like that,

 

you can easily buy a slightly faster RAM than you need if it's cheaper, for example if you want 2933 but 3200 cheaper, just get 3200 and run a slower XMP profile,

 

you mentioned failing RAM on OC, doesn't always have to be RAM's fault, could be of course, but it also could be the Motherboard, you know, given that they're in contact a Motherboard could cause RAM to fail when OC'd.

I could vomit blood since I have to repeat, in Powerpoint mode:

 

1. I'm searching for JEDEC spec 2.933.
2. I'm not running XMP, because 3 times already failed, leading to a failed RAM.
3. 2 of system known to have XMP memory, but didn't run at XMP profile HAS ZERO, 0, NULL, issue(s).

 

How is it a board problem when I switch out to other RAM (including a kit of unsupported XMP, which is not even on the Mem QVL) it ran fine (the one not on QVL ran on XMP few few days, since I had it on a loan)?

 

Plus, the motherboard contains no logic for the RAM, only traces between the CPU-MC to the RAM slots. Why do you NOT ASSUMED that I didn't test those faulty sticks on another known working motherboard?

 

We aren't even talking about Skylake/Kaby Lake platform that I'm running, I'm running an i9-10850K, which is a Comet Lake platform.

 

The only reason you don't face any issues because you upgrade too quickly, and I don't.