Swapping fans on heatsink with 120+140mm fans

[doug_locke]

I want to replace the fans on a frost spirit 140 for a 7700x:

Front fan-120mm 1500rpm 66cfm 

Center fan-140mm  1500rpm 77cfm fan

 

The FS140 has a large gap between Tower#1 and center fan, there may be high turbulence with mismatched fans.

 

Afaik, the 'Y' fan spliters cables are meant for identical fans. 

people say removeling pin #3 of the faster fan works but loses performance (idk if true).

I have empty cases fan headers, but attaching CPU fan#2 to it may not work in sync with the CPU fan (again idk)

 

I already have much better fans but all different rpms and amps

 

I also have two 3 pin fans that are much better including a s

Scythe kaze 125mm (fit 120 and 140mm slots) 2100+ rpm 110+cfm 

 

The alternative is to buy equal rpm 120+140mm fans and use those (not ideal since I own so many better fans)

 

 

TLDR 

Should I use mismatched fans on my heatsink and if so how do I set it up to both ramp up to 100% under load and low/no rpm at idle?

Edited February 18 by doug_locke
Edited for brevity

[freeagent]

If you can find a TY-143 you could run that and a T30. Works good. NF-A14 and T30 work good too. I do not have FS140, but I do have FC140. Just be warned, it is quite the manly fan setup.

[RevGAM]

A mismatched pair will work, just choose 2 that are as strong as possible, including pressure, and then see which way gets you the best temps.  Let us know the results. 

[doug_locke]

21 hours ago, freeagent said:

If you can find a TY-143 you could run that and a T30. Works good. NF-A14 and T30 work good too. I do not have FS140, but I do have FC140. Just be warned, it is quite the manly fan setup.

New plan, FC140 fans on an FS120, best of both worlds & matching rpms. 

 

These thermalright coolers are a lot easier to work with than the old phantek and cryorig versions. 

[freeagent]

1 hour ago, doug_locke said:

These thermalright coolers are a lot easier to work with than the old phantek and cryorig versions. 

Oh yeah, they are very nice to work with. I have about 10 of them, and an AIO from them lol..

[doug_locke]

Little update 

 

Ran some fan setups on my 7700x. (Expo on, Pbo on/mobo, curve -30).

 

Frost Commander Cinebench 19.1k  ( hit the thermal limit 95.5°)

fans are more powerful but much louder. 

 

Frost spirit, always stayed under 92°C upgrading the center fan made no difference. A better front fan dropped max temps 0.2-0.5°C, Cinebench 20.2k vs 20.4k

 

Weirdly adding a 3rd 120mm fan (same model as the front fan)fan to the back dropped max temps 2-2.5° Cinebench: 21.1k 

Three fans on the FS140 we're still quieter than the 2 stock fans on the FC140.

 

 

Probably not worth the effort for 5% performance but there you have it.

[RevGAM]

2 hours ago, doug_locke said:

Little update 

 

Ran some fan setups on my 7700x. (Expo on, Pbo on/mobo, curve -30).

 

Frost Commander Cinebench 19.1k  ( hit the thermal limit 95.5°)

fans are more powerful but much louder. 

 

Frost spirit, always stayed under 92°C upgrading the center fan made no difference. A better front fan dropped max temps 0.2-0.5°C, Cinebench 20.2k vs 20.4k

 

Weirdly adding a 3rd 120mm fan (same model as the front fan)fan to the back dropped max temps 2-2.5° Cinebench: 21.1k 

Three fans on the FS140 we're still quieter than the 2 stock fans on the FC140.

 

 

Probably not worth the effort for 5% performance but there you have it.

That's great! Thanks for sharing! I think I know why the 3rd fan made such a difference. The D14 has higher CFM and mmAq than the C12, so it recovers the speed through the first tower and boosts it, perhaps a bit. Then, the third fan captures that and completes the channel, effectively neutralizing the loss.  Perhaps if you replaced the C12s with B12 Extrem, and something much stronger in the middle, you'd get even better results.

@freeagentFC lost out to FS...

 

@TatamiMattWhat do you think of my theory?

[freeagent]

2 hours ago, RevGAM said:

@freeagentFC lost out to FS.

Sweet, I am running a PS120 EVO, I have two FC140s, both of them are awesome

[TatamiMatt]

2 hours ago, RevGAM said:

That's great! Thanks for sharing! I think I know why the 3rd fan made such a difference. The D14 has higher CFM and mmAq than the C12, so it recovers the speed through the first tower and boosts it, perhaps a bit. Then, the third fan captures that and completes the channel, effectively neutralizing the loss.  Perhaps if you replaced the C12s with B12 Extrem, and something much stronger in the middle, you'd get even better results.

@freeagentFC lost out to FS...

 

@TatamiMattWhat do you think of my theory?

The D14X from the FC might complete the theory if @doug_locke, you would want to test?

 

@RevGAM Youre thinking somewhere along the lines of a heatsink based railgun? 

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, freeagent said:

Sweet, I am running a PS120 EVO, I have two FC140s, both of them are awesome

Nice! I have the PS, and I just got the FS. No FC, yet.

24 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

The D14X from the FC might complete the theory if @doug_locke, you would want to test?

 

@RevGAM Youre thinking somewhere along the lines of a heatsink based railgun? 

To borrow from the Bengals: "Who Dat?"   (And, no, I don't like their slogan. I think it's something that should be ditched because, AFAIK, it means "Who are they?" and, clearly, everyone is pretty familiar with them after the last 3 years!

No, I don't like watching sports. It's for pacifying the masses, making rich people richer, and the exploitation of (willing) athletes.

 

Hmmm...Now that you mention it, that railgun idea sounds exciting (and it's being worked on by the military, iirc)!

[freeagent]

TL-D14X and TL-C12 Pro are noisy fans for sure, but they move a decent amount of air and they will last for awhile. One of the main reasons why I am stubborn about how good FC140 is, its because I can run my 5800X3D with no fans installed, and run my 5900X up to 180w with no fans installed. I will tell you though.. I have other Thermalright flagships from days gone by.. they were awesome coolers, rated for over 300w+ and they took it. But they suck on the CPUs that replaced the ones they were designed for. And while they do ok on older 12nm AM4 stuff, they cannot cope with AMD 7nm, that includes my lowly 5600X that is actually pretty awesome.

[TatamiMatt]

6 minutes ago, freeagent said:

TL-D14X and TL-C12 Pro are noisy fans for sure, but they move a decent amount of air and they will last for awhile. One of the main reasons why I am stubborn about how good FC140 is, its because I can run my 5800X3D with no fans installed, and run my 5900X up to 180w with no fans installed. I will tell you though.. I have other Thermalright flagships from days gone by.. they were awesome coolers, rated for over 300w+ and they took it. But they suck on the CPUs that replaced the ones they were designed for. And while they do ok on older 12nm AM4 stuff, they cannot cope with AMD 7nm, that includes my lowly 5600X that is actually pretty awesome.

I wonder if the FS or FC will win fanless, due to the extra heatpipes vs extra fins, would be interesting to see which prevails

[RevGAM]

7 minutes ago, freeagent said:

TL-D14X and TL-C12 Pro are noisy fans for sure, but they move a decent amount of air and they will last for awhile. One of the main reasons why I am stubborn about how good FC140 is, its because I can run my 5800X3D with no fans installed, and run my 5900X up to 180w with no fans installed. I will tell you though.. I have other Thermalright flagships from days gone by.. they were awesome coolers, rated for over 300w+ and they took it. But they suck on the CPUs that replaced the ones they were designed for. And while they do ok on older 12nm AM4 stuff, they cannot cope with AMD 7nm, that includes my lowly 5600X that is actually pretty awesome.

Thanks for sharing, bro! I remember you mentioned the Macho. I'm guessing those old faves are dual towers, right?

Check out the B12 Extrem, which is stronger than the C12 Pro. And louder...Much.

[RevGAM]

1 minute ago, TatamiMatt said:

I wonder if the FS or FC will win fanless, due to the extra heatpipes vs extra fins, would be interesting to see which prevails

My guess is the FC will win because of the size difference.

[freeagent]

I have these guys:

 

Le Grand Macho RT, 320w with fan, 90w passive:

 

Le GRAND MACHO RT – Thermalright

 

True Spirit 140 Power, 360w fecking beast. It is on my 3770K and Z77 OC Formula. Excels with a TY-143 on it, as does LGMRT.

 

TRUE Spirit 140 Power – Thermalright

 

These coolers are good for CPUs that based on 32nm or larger in my opinion. Or HEDT 22nm and smaller.

[TatamiMatt]

23 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

My guess is the FC will win because of the size difference.

iirc theyre the same size, only difference is heatpipes vs fin density

[freeagent]

If I buy one and find FC140 is better I will be pissed.

 

Edit:

 

It doesn't matter though, as Phantom Spirit is rated for higher TDP, and is nice and tiny in comparison And the EVO can take a T30 in the center without moving the fin stacks or stretching the clips.

[RevGAM]

7 hours ago, TatamiMatt said:

iirc theyre the same size, only difference is heatpipes vs fin density

Thanks...I didn't remember exactly what was different and I was too busy to look. FC vs FS: 5 vs 4 heatpipes, fin gap 1.8 vs 1.6, AND C12 Pro + D14X vs C12 + D14 fans.

Those differences are fascinating, because they demonstrate that fin density is more important than both the number of heatpipes and the power of the fans (within reason, I'm sure). @freeagent

I'd be curious to know how much better they'd be with direct heatpipe contact instead of the plate, or if it even matters. They sure were intent on implying that the FS's coldplate is super smooth...Either that, or there's a new kinda CPU out there!

 

And, just think, if they'd used the same fans...WHOOSH!

[RevGAM]

7 hours ago, freeagent said:

If I buy one and find FC140 is better I will be pissed.

 

Edit:

 

It doesn't matter though, as Phantom Spirit is rated for higher TDP, and is nice and tiny in comparison And the EVO can take a T30 in the center without moving the fin stacks or stretching the clips.

In the end, there's not a huge performance difference between them (and a few other TR coolers).

[freeagent]

Flattened pipes are no good. Avoid coolers that are made that way.

[RevGAM]

3 minutes ago, freeagent said:

Flattened pipes are no good. Avoid coolers that are made that way.

Please explain. There are an awful lot of direct-contact coolers out there.

[freeagent]

Right. So a pipe has X amount of capacity, call it 40w.. now take that same pipe, and mill some material off so you make it flat. That material was capacity, now it’s not because they milled a third off. Think about the wall diameter. Those pipes are not pressed flat, they are milled.

[RevGAM]

52 minutes ago, freeagent said:

Right. So a pipe has X amount of capacity, call it 40w.. now take that same pipe, and mill some material off so you make it flat. That material was capacity, now it’s not because they milled a third off. Think about the wall diameter. Those pipes are not pressed flat, they are milled.

It seems to me that you're going to have more capacity if you mill off some of the external material rather than flattening the pipe, which can cause a constriction that might potentially result in impeding the whole evaporative process...?

[freeagent]

The material is the capacity though. You are taking material away. Thermalright did make one, wasn't a strong performer. Neither is my piece of shit Hyper 212 Evo, the original Evo. Junk.

[RevGAM]

5 minutes ago, freeagent said:

The material is the capacity though. You are taking material away. Thermalright did make one, wasn't a strong performer. Neither is my piece of shit Hyper 212 Evo, the original Evo. Junk.

Hmmm, I thought the primary carrier of the heat was the vapor inside? Apparently, I misunderstood, yet ...Bah, I should've gone to school for something else. XD