RAM OC help

[TheNaitsyrk]

Hello,

 

Recently acquired a 13900KS.

 

I am OCing the RAM.

 

So far I have managed to get 8400Mhz CL38 48 48 48 84 T2

1.5V on both sticks.

 

8600Mhz boots but on logon screen I get BSOD. Anything I can do / I am missing to get it to 8600Mhz?

 

RAM is water cooled under it's own loop. It's 2x24GB of GSkill TridentZ 8000Mhz CL40.

 

Also, do the ram bin itself cause issues?

[Hinjima]

1 minute ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

Hello,

 

Recently acquired a 13900KS.

 

I am OCing the RAM.

 

So far I have managed to get 8400Mhz CL38 48 48 48 84 T2

1.5V on both sticks.

 

8600Mhz boots but on logon screen I get BSOD. Anything I can do / I am missing to get it to 8600Mhz?

 

RAM is water cooled under it's own loop. It's 2x24GB of GSkill TridentZ 8000Mhz CL40.

 

Also, do the ram bin itself cause issues?

Things get unstable the higher you go with any type of overclocking.

8600mhz might not be reachable for your kit.

[podkall]

@Somerandomtechyboi

[Fasauceome]

43 minutes ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

do the ram bin itself cause issues

Not issues per se, but you can expect a higher bin to perform better in general.

 

8600 might not be achievable with those timings, that is a pretty low latency at that speed.

[TheNaitsyrk]

37 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

Not issues per se, but you can expect a higher bin to perform better in general.

 

8600 might not be achievable with those timings, that is a pretty low latency at that speed.

I bought it from a person who had it running at 8600mhz. The RAM I use now behaves same on CPU with MC73 and my one is 88 MC. The only thing that's left is the RAM, CPU and motherboard replaced 

[RONOTHAN##]

12 minutes ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

The RAM I use now behaves same on CPU with MC73 and my one is 88 MC

Memory controller SP is a useless metric, it very rarely correlates between what chips are good and what chips aren't. I have used an MC 65 and a MC 85 chip (I forget the exact values, but they were somewhere around there for each), their memory controllers behaved exactly the same, and both would do 8000 on the Unify-X. 

 

There are countless things that can prevent you from booting a higher speed. You could have gotten a KS with a mediocre memory controller, you could be on a BIOS revision that doesn't behave that well at high frequency with 2x24GB DIMMs, you could have set your VDDQ TX/VDD2/SA/PLL voltages incorrectly, your kit could require tuning termination settings to work at high frequency, you could have the DIMM mounting pressure ever so slightly off, your CPU socket mounting pressure could be ever so slightly off, your water block mounting pressure could be ever so slightly offyou could be using the wrong strap, and some other factors I'm sure I'm forgetting. I'd work on getting 8400 stable first, since you will learn what your CPU likes and doesn't like, and odds are once you're stable at 8400, 8600 will start working out of nowhere. 

[TheNaitsyrk]

37 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Memory controller SP is a useless metric, it very rarely correlates between what chips are good and what chips aren't. I have used an MC 65 and a MC 85 chip (I forget the exact values, but they were somewhere around there for each), their memory controllers behaved exactly the same, and both would do 8000 on the Unify-X. 

 

There are countless things that can prevent you from booting a higher speed. You could have gotten a KS with a mediocre memory controller, you could be on a BIOS revision that doesn't behave that well at high frequency with 2x24GB DIMMs, you could have set your VDDQ TX/VDD2/SA/PLL voltages incorrectly, your kit could require tuning termination settings to work at high frequency, you could have the DIMM mounting pressure ever so slightly off, your CPU socket mounting pressure could be ever so slightly off, your water block mounting pressure could be ever so slightly offyou could be using the wrong strap, and some other factors I'm sure I'm forgetting. I'd work on getting 8400 stable first, since you will learn what your CPU likes and doesn't like, and odds are once you're stable at 8400, 8600 will start working out of nowhere. 

Currently running a memtest (ASUS built in one) and it's completed 2/4 tests with 0 errors with 8400 38 48 48 48 84 T2

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

Currently running a memtest (ASUS built in one) and it's completed 2/4 tests with 0 errors with 8400 38 48 48 48 84 T2

The built in ASUS one is pretty bad at detecting memory errors related to high frequency. Boot into Windows and try running Y-Cruncher VT3 instead. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

10 hours ago, podkall said:

@Somerandomtechyboi

Bruh i have no experience and pretty little knowledge when it comes to ddr5 but i may have some rather general reccomendations for high ram freq

 

10 hours ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

Hello,

 

Recently acquired a 13900KS.

 

I am OCing the RAM.

 

So far I have managed to get 8400Mhz CL38 48 48 48 84 T2

1.5V on both sticks.

 

8600Mhz boots but on logon screen I get BSOD. Anything I can do / I am missing to get it to 8600Mhz?

 

RAM is water cooled under it's own loop. It's 2x24GB of GSkill TridentZ 8000Mhz CL40.

 

Also, do the ram bin itself cause issues?

What adjustments have you tried to get 8600 to actually work?

 

first of all any arbitrary voltage limitations regarding vdimm throw those out the window as the imc isnt gonna degrade due to vdimm as far as i can tell especially not with ddr5 since vdimm doesnt even touch the imc afaik

 

and ram ics that just keep scaling with voltage will not degrade with voltage, the 2x4 cfr i have seems to have degraded abit cause i pushed upto 2.5v trying to stabilize 3000 ddr3 as they simply dont scale that far but running ~2v they seem to run just fine whereas my shitty samsung f die it does not give a shit wether i run 2v or 2.6v though it though i havent done much testing due to only having a single stick

 

Voltage limitations regarding imc id just follow those or equalize with vcore max safe (~1.45v)

 

Basically use as much voltage as you need, as 8400+ is a pretty high speed i wouldnt bat an eye at 1.6v+, though id see if i can reduce volt requirement by setting cl40 since cl doesnt do much for performance and the extra volt can go to freq, subtimings, or just run at a lower volt so the sticks run abit cooler, lower the volt the better if its within possibility and you arent sacrificing anything which in this case you basically make no real sacrifice

 

As for imc i think trcd is one of the timings that stress the imc so id see if loosening that abit lets you run higher speed if raising vdimm or changing some other voltages and/or (sub)timings dont work

 

 

If i was doing an oc like this from scratch the first thing id do is look for a profile online prefferably ones with the highest freqs and subtimings set and use as a reference

 

throw the primaries out the window and loosen them quite abit with subtimings at auto for the mobo to loosen unless that particular ram ic requires subs manually set

 

first goal is to maximize frequency so just keep cranking the thing till max freq is hit and it wont go any further, then find the max stable freq which may be abit below the absolute max freq (ex my gdies max out at 3100 due to imc but i did manage to stabilize them at 3000c10)

 

once max stable freq is found use the profile you found as a reference and tighten the subs accordingly but not all at once, usually i do this in groups, maybe tighten all the subs in the same category like the sr or dr subs all at once, pretty hard to explain, kinda just have my own way or algorithm of doing it, you could also just yolo it and do all subs and if it doesnt work just detune the subs in groups till stable then triangulate the particular sub that needs to be loosened compared to the profile by just retightening the subs in groups again till you find the sub(s) that need to be adjusted. There may also be subs that benifit from extra vdimm which is usually the secondaries like trfc or trrd but only on some ics cause some also dont scale the secondaries nor tertiaries with volt

 

Last step is to tighten the primaries making sure to not dump too much voltage into them cause thats just a waste of volt, but if cooling is not an issue you could just dump as much volt as you want, just have to keep in mind that the gains are very little

[Ebony Falcon]

Just try 7600 and stress test 

top 0.1 percent of cpus are doing 8200 without errors on the apex 

 

[TheNaitsyrk]

12 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Memory controller SP is a useless metric, it very rarely correlates between what chips are good and what chips aren't. I have used an MC 65 and a MC 85 chip (I forget the exact values, but they were somewhere around there for each), their memory controllers behaved exactly the same, and both would do 8000 on the Unify-X. 

 

There are countless things that can prevent you from booting a higher speed. You could have gotten a KS with a mediocre memory controller, you could be on a BIOS revision that doesn't behave that well at high frequency with 2x24GB DIMMs, you could have set your VDDQ TX/VDD2/SA/PLL voltages incorrectly, your kit could require tuning termination settings to work at high frequency, you could have the DIMM mounting pressure ever so slightly off, your CPU socket mounting pressure could be ever so slightly off, your water block mounting pressure could be ever so slightly offyou could be using the wrong strap, and some other factors I'm sure I'm forgetting. I'd work on getting 8400 stable first, since you will learn what your CPU likes and doesn't like, and odds are once you're stable at 8400, 8600 will start working out of nowhere. 

Memtest passed on 8400. Loosened timings to 8600 40 54 54 54 128 and 8600 boots and worked all day with general use. I'll try to tighten the 54s to like 50 and then if that's fine I'll try CL38

[TheNaitsyrk]

2 hours ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Just try 7600 and stress test 

top 0.1 percent of cpus are doing 8200 without errors on the apex 

 

I just managed 8600 38 49 49 49 84 T2 booted fine 

[TheNaitsyrk]

8800Mhz CL40 50 50 50 84 T2 booted just now also 

 

EDIT: 8800 CL38 50 50 84 T2 also booted 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

2 hours ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

8800Mhz CL40 50 50 50 84 T2 booted just now also 

 

EDIT: 8800 CL38 50 50 84 T2 also booted 

Is it stable tho?

And what volts are you using now?

 

Almost always loosening primaries that lets you get higher freq, though id just leave it at c40 for lower volt requirement

 

Its so freaking close to 9000 though so id personally shoot for that and maybe add like 0.1 bclk just because

 

[TheNaitsyrk]

25 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Is it stable tho?

And what volts are you using now?

 

Almost always loosening primaries that lets you get higher freq, though id just leave it at c40 for lower volt requirement

 

Its so freaking close to 9000 though so id personally shoot for that and maybe add like 0.1 bclk just because

 

5 errors in memtest. I'm tweaking secondary timings or should I up the voltage? I'm now at 1.51V, ram is water cooled and has two fans over it and ram has its own loop

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Just now, TheNaitsyrk said:

5 errors in memtest. I'm tweaking secondary timings or should I up the voltage? I'm now at 1.51V, ram is water cooled and has two fans over it 

Use as much volt as neccesary

As for secondaries just leave em alone till they become an issue

 

Id try raising volt to 1.56v or 1.6v if it really needs that much but theres no real limit to volt aside from heat and the voltage scaling of the ic

 

personally id just keep loosening primaries and raising volt and just see whats the max freq itll go to and dial the freq down abit to find the max stable freq after that (ex 3100 max freq -> 3000 max stable freq on my ddr3 gdie)

 

if the ic happens to taper off in performance at the very bleeding edge of frequency (likely caused by needing to heavily loosen the subs) then continue to downclock till you get your perf back (ex 1520 max "stable" -> 1470 max perf on my 1x3 xtreem dark ddr2), a couple indications of if your ic may behave like this is obviously performance goes to shit compared to a lower freq but another sign is the ic becoming extremely volatile all of a sudden compared to a slightly lower freq, volatile as in needs to be kept under a certain temp otherwise crash and this crash temp sdrastically decreases over the span of say 100-200mhz

[TheNaitsyrk]

2 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Use as much volt as neccesary

As for secondaries just leave em alone till they become an issue

 

Id try raising volt to 1.56v or 1.6v if it really needs that much but theres no real limit to volt aside from heat and the voltage scaling of the ic

 

personally id just keep loosening primaries and raising volt and just see whats the max freq itll go to and dial the freq down abit to find the max stable freq after that (ex 3100 max freq -> 3000 max stable freq on my ddr3 gdie)

 

if the ic happens to taper off in performance at the very bleeding edge of frequency (likely caused by needing to heavily loosen the subs) then continue to downclock till you get your perf back (ex 1520 max "stable" -> 1470 max perf on my 1x3 xtreem dark ddr2), a couple indications of if your ic may behave like this is obviously performance goes to shit compared to a lower freq but another sign is the ic becoming extremely volatile all of a sudden compared to a slightly lower freq, volatile as in needs to be kept under a certain temp otherwise crash and this crash temp sdrastically decreases over the span of say 100-200mhz

I'll try the voltage first see how it goes! It's under water with 16mk pads and it's own loop so I'm sure I can cool that

[Ebony Falcon]

Doesn’t matter that you can boot 8600

start at 7600 pass a decent stress test for a substantial amount of time then move up and go again