Are Noctua NF-F12's cost justifiable?

[kingduqc]

Gentle typhoon a15 are better then the nf f12 btw guys.

[ShiverMePenguins]

Not sure if that's the model name, but,

 

Discuss...

for 29 dollars? no i don't believe so at all. af 140's perform much better at similar/same noise levels, ap123's perform better at pressure and directed airflow.

 

i personally have no reason for noctua except for their horizontal cpu heatsink.

[BeyondNight]

Quote:

"I would also caution that this “Air Flow” comparison is also just approximate.  Comparing thermally would be more accurate..."

 

Just saying.

Although Correct, you have to realize the Physics and the laws of thermodynamics govern what happens when air passes a rad, and the more air that passes through, the larger the volume, and thus more cooling potential, the differences in temps due to how the fans move the air through the rad will be minimal compared to the effect more CFM will have.

[Guest]

Better question, will you notice the performance difference in the real world? Will that 1 or 2 degree cooling difference actually allow you to do anything? 

 

Just something to think about.. 

[BoomLiam]

I love how most people that came here just voted that EA sucks :P Anyway, I personally do not want the colour of the Noctuas to impact the look of my case (as it's a white Phantom 410 so could not be overlooked) so I will be getting Corsair AF and SP series fans, however if you are using a case with no side window and was black, then I can understand why people would get Noctuas as they are the best performing fans on the market to date.

[Brian]

I love how most people that came here just voted that EA sucks :P

 

They should be happy that only 50% of people in here thought that they suck. lol

[KaareKanin]

Quote:

"I would also caution that this “Air Flow” comparison is also just approximate.  Comparing thermally would be more accurate..."

 

Just saying.

 

That's just what I was thinking as well! A lot of the tests I've seen, Noctuas doesn't really win in airflow stats, but once they're strapped to a heat sink or radiator, they usually run of with the victory. 

[Matsy]

Ea.

 

Anyways no they arnt worth it when you look at alternatives and actually think about it a tad.

[Vaoh]

That's just what I was thinking as well! A lot of the tests I've seen, Noctuas doesn't really win in airflow stats, but once they're strapped to a heat sink or radiator, they usually run of with the victory.

Well his testing is done strapped to a rad. So yeah, not really winning on that front either. Though, still doesn't excuse the Noctuas for making so much noise while moving so little air.

[Hyydrah]

And...so what if you have a windowed panel...

What

[KaareKanin]

Well his testing is done strapped to a rad. So yeah, not really winning on that front either. Though, still doesn't excuse the Noctuas for making so much noise while moving so little air.

 

I didn't see a testing metodology there, so how was I to know? (talking about reputable...). Also, I didn't see any ∆T on values on a cooling solution there, so again, how was I to know? 

 

Edit: Comming to think about it, measuring noise levels that close to the source, isn't that just against all common practices? I had a chat with an audio engineer about that once, and he mentioned something about pulsations messing up the results when your'e that close. Anyways, I'm pretty sure the norm is to measure 1m away and at 45 degrees to the audio source

[Hyydrah]

Bear in mind that NF-F12s outperform SP120s and are still quieter. Noctua also makes airflow-optimized fans in case you're interested, though the two NF-A14s (pressure optimized fans) in the front of my Define R4, even with the large drive cages installed, keep my components at the same temperature as when the side panel is removed.

[Hyydrah]

Better question, will you notice the performance difference in the real world? Will that 1 or 2 degree cooling difference actually allow you to do anything? 

 

Just something to think about.. 

It's not only the superior temperatures, but also the more bearable noise results that make them worthwhile. They also have incredible build quality, where the SP120s are lacking

[BeyondNight]

Bear in mind that NF-F12s outperform SP120s and are still quieter. Noctua also makes airflow-optimized fans in case you're interested, though the two NF-A14s (pressure optimized fans) in the front of my Define R4, even with the large drive cages installed, keep my components at the same temperature as when the side panel is removed.

The SP120's beat Noctua both in Airflow and Noise levels (Including noise quality)

You can see it in Martins review i linked.

[Hyydrah]

The SP120's beat Noctua both in Airflow and Noise levels (Including noise quality)

You can see it in Martins review i linked.

Not according to this

 

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/corsair_air_series_fans_review_sp120_af120_review/3

 

And if they were better performers, why would Linus choose a complete setup with Noctua fans rather than anything else for their benchmarking?

[BeyondNight]

Not according to this.

 

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/corsair_air_series_fans_review_sp120_af120_review/3

 

And if they were better performers, why would Linus choose a complete setup with Noctua fans rather than anything else for their benchmarking?

Well considring it doesent list sound levels for the given temps (SP Quiet editions are quieter at full than NF-F12's) and the testing Equipment used was a Rad and a CPU temp monitor, i think ill stick with Martins review, Thats before considering how long hes been doing testing for the WC community.

 

As for the Linus comment... he likes them ? its not like NF-F12's are bad fans, they work well and do what they are supposed to, they just arent the best, and are expensive for what you get, and someones personal prefrence isnt an indicator of whether a product is good or bad.

[Hyydrah]

Well considring it doesent list sound levels for the given temps (SP Quiet editions are quieter at full than NF-F12's) and the testing Equipment used was a Rad and a CPU temp monitor, i think ill stick with Martins review, Thats before considering how long hes been doing testing for the WC community.

 

As for the Linus comment... he likes them ? its not like NF-F12's are bad fans, they work well and do what they are supposed to, they just arent the best, and are expensive for what you get, and someones personal prefrence isnt an indicator of whether a product is good or bad.

Sound levels are actually subjective, the specifications listed for products such as fans are biased so that the company can increase profitability. Also, who actually uses them at full speed? I've never seen a fan that was the slightest bit bearable at 75%+ their maximum RPM

 

This video goes in-depth with the NF-F12s, it doesn't compare them to the SP120s but it was rewarded the performance award being the best performing fans they've tested

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qAvH3yJ_A8

 

Here's Linus' benchmark rig too

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8HsjgtMzEg

[BeyondNight]

Sound levels are actually subjective, the specifications listed for products such as fans are biased so that the company can increase profitability. Also, who actually uses them at full speed? I've never seen a fan that was the slightest bit bearable at 75%+ their maximum RPM.

 

This video goes in-depth with the NF-F12s, it doesn't compare them to the SP120s but it was rewarded the performance award being the best performing fans they've tested.

 

 

Here's Linus' benchmark rig too.

 

I was talking about the tested sound Levels, which are the Real world sound levels, not whats on the Box, which is a load of BS 95% of the time, and considering the Corsairs have a higher DB rating on the box yet i said they were quieter, i was refrencing actual tests.

 

Also, ive seen both those videos, and i know Linus Uses them on his test rig and the Performed well for both Linus and TTL, i never said they were bad performers, just that there arent the best, which is what you said.

 

here are martins Vids for proof of testing

https://www.youtube.com/user/Martinm210

 

and this is a comment from the review istself, which is proven in both videos youve linked, a lack of proper testing equipment to judge a fans perfomance. 

 

 I don’t understand why they are so often so highly recommended except I know of a few reviews done out there without proper tools that are likely spreading bad information as usual

 

 From Here http://martinsliquidlab.org/category/fans/

[Hyydrah]

I was talking about the tested sound Levels, which are the Real world sound levels, not whats on the Box, which is a load of BS 95% of the time, and considering the Corsairs have a higher DB rating on the box yet i said they were quieter, i was refrencing actual tests.

 

Also, ive seen both those videos, and i know Linus Uses them on his test rig and the Performed well for both Linus and TTL, i never said they were bad performers, just that there arent the best, which is what you said.

 

here are martins Vids for proof of testing

https://www.youtube.com/user/Martinm210

 

and this is a comment from the review istself, which is proven in both videos youve linked, a lack of proper testing equipment to judge a fans perfomance. 

 

 From Here http://martinsliquidlab.org/category/fans/

Assuming that you mean "best" as in best performing, you still haven't proven that they are better performers. He says that they're overrated and yet he doesn't show any actual temperatures. He also bases the noise levels on what the device reads them at, human ears don't perceive sound in such a black and white manner. This is why Noctua has implemented various features on their NF-F12s including vortex control notches

 

 

Varying Angular Distance and Vortex Control Notches

The NF-F12’s stator guide vanes are set out in Varying Angular Distance and feature Vortex-Control Notches. Both measures help to spread the noise emission over a broader frequency spectrum and thus make the fan’s sound pattern more agreeable to the human ear.

[Hyydrah]

for 29 dollars? no i don't believe so at all. af 140's perform much better at similar/same noise levels, ap123's perform better at pressure and directed airflow.

 

i personally have no reason for noctua except for their horizontal cpu heatsink.

AF140s are incompatible with radiators that require 120mm fans. Even their most optimized 120mm radiator fans for performance, the SP120 Performance Editions, can't beat Noctua's NF-F12s as seen here

 

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/corsair_air_series_fans_review_sp120_af120_review/3

 

Also, you're making the implication that the price is the reason why you don't like them, you haven't even linked any results verifying your position on the issue but instead simply say "I don't believe so at all"

[That Norwegian Guy]

After thinking about it for a bit I voted no. Mainly because Noctuas main selling point (though there are others) is silence. Or at least the noise to performance ratio. In this niche, I regard Be Quiet! fans to be better, and they're cheaper.

[BeyondNight]

Assuming that you mean "best" as in best performing, you still haven't proven that they are better performers. He says that they're overrated and yet he doesn't show any actual temperatures. He also bases the noise levels on what the device reads them at, human ears don't perceive sound in such a black and white manner. This is why Noctua has implemented various features on their NF-F12s including vortex control notches.

Well fi you Understood any part of Physics or Thermodynamics youd understand what i meant a few posts up about how a higher airflow increases the total volume of air passing over the heat exchanger for a certain time period,

more air hitting the heatsink= more heat is able to be transfered away from the fins of the heatsink, its very basic, and thats why you dont need to test with temps on a setup, you just need to know what fan moves more air, whcih the test shows.

 

Oh and as for the Equipment, dB (A) mening A weighted is designed to pick up sounds humans would hear, not only is it accurate enough for casefans and coan be confired by anyone comparing them by ear, but he records the video with a mic set to the exact same settings, so your can literally confirm it yourself, and can hear actually how the fans sounds in the real world, and the NF-F12s were clearly louder, and the quality of sound produced wasnt pleasing either.

 

Oh and to reieterate something i said earlier, the Noctuas arent bad, but they definitley are the best, and are overpriced, which is what this whole topic was origionally about.

[Hyydrah]

Well fi you Understood any part of Physics or Thermodynamics youd understand what i meant a few posts up about how a higher airflow increases the total volume of air passing over the heat exchanger for a certain time period,

more air hitting the heatsink= more heat is able to be transfered away from the fins of the heatsink, its very basic, and thats why you dont need to test with temps on a setup, you just need to know what fan moves more air, whcih the test shows.

 

Oh and as for the Equipment, dB (A) mening A weighted is designed to pick up sounds humans would hear, not only is it accurate enough for casefans and coan be confired by anyone comparing them by ear, but he records the video with a mic set to the exact same settings, so your can literally confirm it yourself, and can hear actually how the fans sounds in the real world, and the NF-F12s were clearly louder, and the quality of sound produced wasnt pleasing either.

 

Oh and to reieterate something i said earlier, the Noctuas arent bad, but they definitley are the best, and are overpriced, which is what this whole topic was origionally about.

It's not that "basic". Why do you think Corsair and Noctua brand their fans as being pressure optimized, not airflow optimized? Why does this airflow-performance-noise triangle exist then?

 

Also, you fail to realize that NF-F12s don't need to run at as high speeds as SP120s to have the same temperature results, thus making them quieter in an actual usage scenario (which Martin didn't even attempt to demonstrate)

 

"They definitely are the best"? That's what I'm arguing, but I think that's a typo on your part

[Jack.EXE]

if you are going for quiet, go with NZXT, airflow, go with silverstone. both $9, and 90% as good as noctuas

[SirReallySam]

I think it is worth the money, but I HAD to vote for EA Sucks haha :D That made my day XD