Question about DLSS

[Mikey89]

So i wanted to ask this because i'm a bit confused.

 

Does DLSS give ANY performance increase at lower resolutions ?

 

Like lower resolutions than 1080p ?

 

I recently bought an RTX 4060 and i have 2 monitors :

 

- 1 monitor at 1080p native

- 1 monitor at 1680 x 1050 native which is around 900p

 

And when using DLSS in games i don't see any performance increase on the 1680 x 1050 monitor.

 

Is that normal ?

[Mikey89]

@Mark Kaine

 

Can you please let me know ?

 

I'm really confused about this.

[Jurrunio]

DLSS does give extra performance at low resolutions. My guess is your resolution is already so low that even at native resolution the 3080 is  getting bottlenecked by other parts.

[Mikey89]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

DLSS does give extra performance at low resolutions. My guess is your resolution is already so low that even at native resolution the 3080 is  getting bottlenecked by other parts.

But i'm on a 4060 not 3080.

 

Resolution is 1680 x 1050

[Eigenvektor]

Enabling DLSS means the game engine renders the game at a lower resolution than what you see on screen. Lowering the rendering resolution should generally increase performance. If it doesn't you may be running into e.g. a CPU limit or an engine limit.

[tkitch]

what game, and what FPS are you getting?

[Mikey89]

Just now, Eigenvektor said:

Enabling DLSS means the game engine renders the game at a lower resolution than what you see on screen. Lowering the rendering resolution should generally increase performance. If it doesn't you may be running into e.g. a CPU limit or an engine limit.

CPU : RYZEN 5 3600

GPU : RTX 4060

 

I tested in SPIDERMAN and HITMAN 3 and was getting above 100 FPS but when i turned DLSS ON there was no difference.

[Mikey89]

Just now, tkitch said:

what game, and what FPS are you getting?

SPIDERMAN : 100 FPS + DLSS ON also 100 FPS

 

HITMAN 3 : 145 FPS + DLSS ON also 145 FPS

[tkitch]

check device manager when you're playing.

Is one of your cores hitting 100% and sitting there? 

[HypixelBedwars]

Keep in mind that DLSS is AI frame generation. Meaning that it isn't always going to be perfect. 

[Eigenvektor]

3 minutes ago, Mikey89 said:

I tested in SPIDERMAN and HITMAN 3 and was getting above 100 FPS but when i turned DLSS ON there was no difference.

Use something like MSI Afterburner to have a look at GPU usage and CPU usage. It's possible you're either running into a CPU or maybe even an engine limitation.

 

 

1 minute ago, HypixelBedwars said:

Keep in mind that DLSS is AI frame generation. Meaning that it isn't always going to be perfect. 

DLSS Super Resolution and DLSS Frame Generation are different things. Super Resolution lowers the rendering resolution, which may improve performance, frame generation should always double the frame rate, but the quality of the generated in-between frames may not be perfect.

[Mikey89]

Just now, Eigenvektor said:

Use something like MSI Afterburner to have a look at GPU usage and CPU usage. It's possible you're either running into a CPU or maybe even an engine limitation.

That's what i've been trying to do.

 

Every time i select "on-screen display" in MSI it doesn't show me the settings on screen.

[Mikey89]

Do i have to enable hardware-accelerated scheduling to use frame generation ?

 

SPIDERMAN and JEDI SURVIVOR didn't let me enable frame generation.

[GuiltySpark_]

7 minutes ago, Mikey89 said:

That's what i've been trying to do.

 

Every time i select "on-screen display" in MSI it doesn't show me the settings on screen.

Setting up the OSD requires configuring Riva Tuner Statistics Server, which you can optionally install during the Afterburner install. Its pretty complex software to setup if you're new to.. well all of this. There are far easier options for new people, primarily Nvidia's own overlay by just pressing Alt+R (which can be configured to show more information with the Alt+Z menu. 

 

For watching for CPU bottlenecks which you are probably suffering from, Intel PresentMon in its current form is fantastic and has basically zero setup.. but you have know what you're looking for. 

[Mikey89]

6 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

Setting up the OSD requires configuring Riva Tuner Statistics Server, which you can optionally install during the Afterburner install. Its pretty complex software to setup if you're new to.. well all of this. There are far easier options for new people, primarily Nvidia's own overlay by just pressing Alt+R (which can be configured to show more information with the Alt+Z menu. 

 

For watching for CPU bottlenecks which you are probably suffering from, Intel PresentMon in its current form is fantastic and has basically zero setup.. but you have know what you're looking for. 

@GuiltySpark_

 

I tried with nvidia's software

 

 

[Mikey89]

@tkitch

 

@Eigenvektor

 

Do you guys know if there is bottlenecking from that photo in my post above ?

[Darkseth]

15 minutes ago, Mikey89 said:

Do you guys know if there is bottlenecking from that photo in my post above ?

I know it without looking at any photo.

Yes you have a Bottleneck.

Everyone does. 

It is not possible to NOT have a Bottleneck, because then you would have unlimited fps.

 

On your screen, something is bottlenecking your GPU, if it has only 74% usage. Maybe CPU, maybe slow PCIe Slot if it's an older Platform.

Maybe Game Engine.

 

Now, before you scream in full panic, i can also see, that you have 103 fps.

Are 103 fps too low for you? Are you happy with 103 fps? If yes, don't worry about Bottlenecks, just enjoy the game.

 

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

My guess is your resolution is already so low that even at native resolution the 3080 is  getting bottlenecked by other parts.

my guess is, that DLSS is an upscaling Method, similar to other image upscale Tools.

 

However, if the Monitor has 1680x1050 is already a quite low Resolution. DLSS would internally render a much lower resolution, and upscale it to 1680x1050.

Nvidia probably put a minimum Resolution that has to be rendered, because the lower the resolution, the less details are there to work with.

Upscaling from 1440p to 2160p works great, because 1440p has quite many details.

But a 480p resolution would be VERY low on Detail, so AI might do too many mistakes in "guessing" how it would look like in higher resolution.

 

Imagine an extreme scenario: You have a Gameboy Resolution of 144p Pixels. This doesn't have enough detail and information to create a fully sharp and detailed 4k image.

[Mikey89]

6 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

I know it without looking at any photo.

Yes you have a Bottleneck.

Everyone does. 

It is not possible to NOT have a Bottleneck, because then you would have unlimited fps.

 

On your screen, something is bottlenecking your GPU, if it has only 74% usage. Maybe CPU, maybe slow PCIe Slot if it's an older Platform.

Maybe Game Engine.

 

Now, before you scream in full panic, i can also see, that you have 103 fps.

Are 103 fps too low for you? Are you happy with 103 fps? If yes, don't worry about Bottlenecks, just enjoy the game.

 

my guess is, that DLSS is an upscaling Method, similar to other image upscale Tools.

 

However, if the Monitor has 1680x1050 is already a quite low Resolution. DLSS would internally render a much lower resolution, and upscale it to 1680x1050.

Nvidia probably put a minimum Resolution that has to be rendered, because the lower the resolution, the less details are there to work with.

Upscaling from 1440p to 2160p works great, because 1440p has quite many details.

But a 480p resolution would be VERY low on Detail, so AI might do too many mistakes in "guessing" how it would look like in higher resolution.

 

Imagine an extreme scenario: You have a Gameboy Resolution of 144p Pixels. This doesn't have enough detail and information to create a fully sharp and detailed 4k image.

@Darkseth

 

No, not what i meant.

 

I mean for example i was getting 130 FPS and if i turned DLSS ON - it was still the SAME.

 

Like no FPS increase at all - is that normal ?

 

Shouldn't DLSS give a boost ?

 

I'm happy with 130 FPS but i just want to know why DLSS wasn't doing it's job.

[GuiltySpark_]

31 minutes ago, Mikey89 said:

@tkitch

 

@Eigenvektor

 

Do you guys know if there is bottlenecking from that photo in my post above ?

Like I said, you can expand it with the Alt-Z menu to show more information. 

[Darkseth]

Like i said here, this is what i think: 

 

16 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

my guess is, that DLSS is an upscaling Method, similar to other image upscale Tools.

 

However, if the Monitor has 1680x1050 is already a quite low Resolution. DLSS would internally render a much lower resolution, and upscale it to 1680x1050.

Nvidia probably put a minimum Resolution that has to be rendered, because the lower the resolution, the less details are there to work with.

Upscaling from 1440p to 2160p works great, because 1440p has quite many details.

But a 480p resolution would be VERY low on Detail, so AI might do too many mistakes in "guessing" how it would look like in higher resolution.

 

Imagine an extreme scenario: You have a Gameboy Resolution of 144p Pixels. This doesn't have enough detail and information to create a fully sharp and detailed 4k image.

 

This Article sounds like i'm right: https://support.benchmarks.ul.com/support/solutions/articles/44002137036-how-to-test-dlss-performance

 

The lowest Render resolution for DLSS is 1080p.

 

But maybe i'm wrong too: 

 

Which DLSS Setting did you use?

 

It's possible, that with such low resolution, you hit CPU Limit, so your CPU can not  deliver more frames -> you can't increase fps any further.

 

 

Edit: DLSS (upscale) basicly does nothing more than you decreasing Game Resolution to a lower Resolution (but upscaling every image to look better).

Lower resolution = GPU has to work less, and can deliver more Frames. But the CPU has to calculate those frames.

If the GPU is bottlenecked (probably by the CPU), nothing happens.

 

Imagine this: You and me work in a factory.

I am first step, and i'm folding a Paper airplane within 60 seconds (CPU calculating all the data)

Then i give it to you (CPU giving the data to the GPU)

You paint it in color (GPU rendering the image).

 

You could grow 1000 arms and wield 1000 brushes, you will only receive 1 Paper airplane per Minute from me.

 

If i could fold twice as fast (faster CPU), you could paint twice as fast.

[Mikey89]

53 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

Like i said here, this is what i think: 

 

 

This Article sounds like i'm right: https://support.benchmarks.ul.com/support/solutions/articles/44002137036-how-to-test-dlss-performance

 

The lowest Render resolution for DLSS is 1080p.

 

But maybe i'm wrong too: 

 

Which DLSS Setting did you use?

 

It's possible, that with such low resolution, you hit CPU Limit, so your CPU can not  deliver more frames -> you can't increase fps any further.

 

 

Edit: DLSS (upscale) basicly does nothing more than you decreasing Game Resolution to a lower Resolution (but upscaling every image to look better).

Lower resolution = GPU has to work less, and can deliver more Frames. But the CPU has to calculate those frames.

If the GPU is bottlenecked (probably by the CPU), nothing happens.

 

Imagine this: You and me work in a factory.

I am first step, and i'm folding a Paper airplane within 60 seconds (CPU calculating all the data)

Then i give it to you (CPU giving the data to the GPU)

You paint it in color (GPU rendering the image).

 

You could grow 1000 arms and wield 1000 brushes, you will only receive 1 Paper airplane per Minute from me.

 

If i could fold twice as fast (faster CPU), you could paint twice as fast.

@Darkseth

 

Wait so let me get this straight.

 

I mean the RYZEN 5 3600 isn't that old from 2020 and in most CPU intensive games like AC odyssey or BF 5 i had no problems with it.

 

The 4060 is too much of a beast for both my 1080p monitor and my 1680 x 1050 monitor ?

 

I tested in HOGWARTS also and was getting 70-80% GPU usage and 50% CPU usage.

 

I have 2 monitors but i get that FPS for example in HITMAN 3 on both monitors without any difference.

[Bagzie]

2 hours ago, Mikey89 said:

@Darkseth

 

No, not what i meant.

 

I mean for example i was getting 130 FPS and if i turned DLSS ON - it was still the SAME.

 

Like no FPS increase at all - is that normal ?

 

Shouldn't DLSS give a boost ?

 

I'm happy with 130 FPS but i just want to know why DLSS wasn't doing it's job.

It's normal , Even a 7800X3D and 13900K can bottleneck some some GPU's in spiderman and especially jedi survivor.

[tkitch]

1 hour ago, Mikey89 said:

@tkitch

 

@Eigenvektor

 

Do you guys know if there is bottlenecking from that photo in my post above ?

No, because total CPU Usage is useless.  

 

When I play FF14, my CPU is at ~20% usage (give or take a few percentage) and I'm CPU Bound in the game.  Overall percentage is useless. 

[Eigenvektor]

6 hours ago, Mikey89 said:

Do you guys know if there is bottlenecking from that photo in my post above ?

No. The only thing I can tell you from that screenshot is that something is limiting your GPU's performance. There is a new tool called Intel PresentMon that can provide the necessary details, but I'm not really familiar with it yet.

 

The only thing DLSS does is lower the resolution at which the game renders, then upscales it to the monitor's resolution. That should typically result in better performance. If that does not, then render resolution is apparently not the limiting factor.

 

DLSS is not "free". While it decreases the load on the GPU, it increases the load on the CPU. If your GPU wasn't the limiting factor to begin with, the reduced load on the GPU and expected higher performance may simply be offset by the fact that you were CPU limited before and the load on the CPU got increased by enabling DLSS.

 

If you aren't playing at max details already, you should likely be able to increase graphical settings without a performance drop, because your GPU has the headroom for it.

 

As others have said, overall CPU load doesn't mean much. For example a ~66% load on a 6 core CPU could mean that 4 of its cores are running at 100%, while 2 cores are idle. If the game engine isn't built to use more than 4 cores, you are CPU limited, even if the CPU itself has more resources available. But the game is unable to use them.

[Mikey89]

6 hours ago, tkitch said:

No, because total CPU Usage is useless.  

 

When I play FF14, my CPU is at ~20% usage (give or take a few percentage) and I'm CPU Bound in the game.  Overall percentage is useless. 

@tkitch

 

@Eigenvektor

 

Ok so If it's not bottleneck then why did i have this result in SPIDERMAN and HITMAN 3 

 

- SPIDERMAN - 100 FPS with DLSS OFF and 100 FPS with DLSS ON

 

- HITMAN 3 - 125 FPS with DLSS OFF and 125 FPS with DLSS ON

 

Like why is there no increase at all ?