Am I falling foul of a myth...?

[Eighjan]

As I feel this is more about CPU's, I chose to post it here - but if Moderators see different, please move it to Cooling; no way I'm posting it there as well, to incur their wrath.

I currently use a Ryzen 7 series CPU and would like to know if how I perceive cooling these units is correct; "Liquid cooling is best reserved for only the highest end CPU's".

 

I fully accept that my Dark Rock 4 Pro is a more than capable unit, but the appeal of an AiO (or even a closed loop) has been something that's nibbled at my curiosity for a few years... what say the wiser amongst you, to this?

[filpo]

5 minutes ago, Eighjan said:

I currently use a Ryzen 7 series CPU

which one specifically? 5700x? 5800x? 5800X3D? 3800x?

 

5 minutes ago, Eighjan said:

I fully accept that my Dark Rock 4 Pro is a more than capable unit, but the appeal of an AiO (or even a closed loop) has been something that's nibbled at my curiosity for a few years... what say the wiser amongst you, to this?

this should be more than fine for any of those cpus. But if you really want to go with an aio for a cheap price I would recommend arctic's 280 rad or deepcools lt520 rad for price

[porina]

Liquid cooling is like air cooling. You have a whole range of offerings that cover a variety of use cases, so no it isn't reserved for high end.

 

For example, I recently transplanted a system into a micro-ATX cube. I always had problems with cooling in that case, as it was height restrictive and you simply can't put a big air cooler in it. In the latest build I went for a 120mm AIO. The performance of it isn't great, but it compares well to the air coolers I could fit.

 

Personally I don't like running liquid nowadays. AIOs aren't bad but can fail after some years. Custom loops will be much higher cost and may require more maintenance. If space doesn't constrain, I'd rather just throw on a Noctua D15 and I'm done. The last bigger AIO I had was a CoolerMaster 240mm, and depending on the CPU it actually performed a little better than the D15, presuming because of contact area and on air, how the heatpipes were distributed. Trading off that you have pump vibration added into the mix, and the supplied fans were pretty noisy.

[starsmine]

Do it if you want but just know there are drawbacks like higher up front cost and that AIOs dont last as long so you will need a new cooler in 3-5 years. Custom is a hobby of its own in terms of consumer PCs. 

The only reason its considered a higher-end thing is only because those extra 20-50 dollars spent on an AIO could have been spent on a better CPU. Not because you cant use it on lower-end parts. But honestly, who cares, have fun with it. 

[Echothedolpin]

Having used AIOs, and before that higher end air coolers, I can attest to one critical fact: a low end, or even low mid-end AIO is outclassed by high end air coolers. Don’t skimp is you’re worried about thermals.

 

Regarding reliability: I’ve only had one AIO fail in 10 years. That’s totally anecdotal, but between modern CPU thermal protection systems and the fact that even a busted AIO still has large thermal mass, you’re not going to break anything. I’ve never had an AIO leak.

 

I know 120mm AIOs can fill a niche when you’ve got an especially space-constrained build, but I usually recommend 280mm+ or 360+ if you’re in the top end market of CPUs.

[Mark Kaine]

The real issue with AIOs is that you need to replace it every ~ 3 years and there's no benefit otherwise than "it looks cool" i don't think so, i think its ugly.

 

same for "closed loop" obviously,  still ugly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[freeagent]

You just need a modern heatsink. I can run my 5600X, 5900X, and 5600X semi passively at various tunes, no fan needed on the heatsinks. But to be fair, I am in an airflow orientated chassis. But that chassis can be in its stock configuration, 2 fans.

[Echothedolpin]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

The real issue with AIOs is that you need to replace it every ~ 3 years and there's no benefit otherwise than "it looks cool" i don't think so, i think its ugly.

 

same for "closed loop" obviously,  still ugly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Where are you getting the three years number from?

 

Also, there are no equivalent air coolers to a 420mm AIO

[freeagent]

Just now, Echothedolpin said:

Where are you getting the three years number from?

On a high wattage CPU that does see a lot of work, you would be lucky to get 3  years out of it.

[Echothedolpin]

9 minutes ago, freeagent said:

On a high wattage CPU that does see a lot of work, you would be lucky to get 3  years out of it.

An AIO should be running at a set speed, that will cause it to last longer.

 

Wattge/heat shouldn’t matter unless you’re running a really cheap pump/small rad. 
 

Also, installing it incorrect can cause much higher wear on the pump, that’s almost exclusively where I’ve seen AIOs fail (including my own personal case.)

 

Not trying to convince you otherwise, but I’d love to see some data. I’ll offer the fact that Arctic Freezer offers a 6 year warranty on their AIOs as proof that at least one manufacturer expects at least double that on their own systems.

[freeagent]

Just now, Echothedolpin said:

An AIO should be running at a set speed, that will cause it to last longer.

 

Wattge/heat shouldn’t matter unless you’re running a really cheap pump/small rad. 
 

Also, installing it incorrect can cause much higher wear on the pump, that’s almost exclusively where I’ve seen AIOs fail (including my own personal case.)

 

Not trying to convince you otherwise, but I’d love to see some data. I’ll offer the fact that Arctic Freezer offers a 6 year warranty on their AIOs as proof that at least one manufacturer expects at least double that on their own systems.

Just speaking from experience, that's all.

 

I was folding on my old X5690 @ ~300w and I got about 14 good months out of it before performance started to degrade. After two years I was already 200-300MHz lower than what I was able to run before. At year 3 I was at stock clocks. At year 4 it could not cool my brothers stock 7700K. It feels mighty light right now.

[Eighjan]

On 7/9/2023 at 11:58 AM, filpo said:

which one specifically? 5700x? 5800x? 5800X3D? 3800x?

5800X

 

Part of the reason for asking is that - aside from simply getting my a$$ in gear - I'm going to transplant my existing rig from a Meshify C to a Ceres 500 "exclusively" for the reason that the power button is on the side of the case (Ceres 500) & not the top (Meshify C), where my cats can (potentially) stand on the power button & kill my PC session...!  
Yes, the Ceres comes with a load of fans, but I'm just wondering if the appeal of liquid cooling is any more than a 'devil on my shoulder' wanting me to spend unnecessary money...?  It seems it could be & thank you to those who seem to be echoing this thinking.

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, Eighjan said:

Yes, the Ceres comes with a load of fans, but I'm just wondering if the appeal of liquid cooling is any more than a 'devil on my shoulder' wanting me to spend unnecessary money...?  It seems it could be & thank you to those who seem to be echoing this thinking.

Keep the dark rock pro 4. It'll still do a good job of cooling it. I wouldn't spend the extra money on the AIO

[Eighjan]

On 7/9/2023 at 3:27 PM, Mark Kaine said:

The real issue with AIOs is that you need to replace it every ~ 3 years and there's no benefit otherwise than "it looks cool" i don't think so, i think its ugly.

 

same for "closed loop" obviously,  still ugly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

As far as aesthetics go, I've seen some rather tastefully 'designed' closed loops & even the RGB on some AiO's can be 'tamed', if it needs to be.
I'm rather a minimalist when it comes to cosmetic lighting, so that isn't a major factor in this specific discussion... RGB can even be switched off, so...
YES... I know the supplied fans with the Ceres 500 are RGB, but they'll get put on a VERY tight leash - trust me.

[Eighjan]

8 minutes ago, filpo said:

Keep the dark rock pro 4. It'll still do a good job of cooling it. I wouldn't spend the extra money on the AIO

I'm more than happy to do so & the whole rig will be as thoroughly dusted/cleaned as I can be bothered to muster before being reinstalled, to assist with thermals.

[filpo]

1 minute ago, Eighjan said:

I'm more than happy to do so & the whole rig will be as thoroughly dusted/cleaned as I can be bothered to muster before being reinstalled, to assist with thermals.

If you do want to I would only do it if your case has a glass panel as it's also for looks (get something like the lt520)

[Eighjan]

Apologies in advance if I don't mark anyone as the solution; I don't see this as the kind of thread that seeks a definitve 'solution', it was more looking to add a pinch of sanity to a thought exercise.

[Eighjan]

1 minute ago, filpo said:

If you do want to I would only do it if your case has a glass panel as it's also for looks (get something like the lt520)

My Meshify C is the 'tinted glass' variant; the Ceres 500 has a glass panel.

[Mark Kaine]

9 minutes ago, Eighjan said:

As far as aesthetics go, I've seen some rather tastefully 'designed' closed loops & even the RGB on some AiO's can be 'tamed', if it needs to be.
I'm rather a minimalist when it comes to cosmetic lighting, so that isn't a major factor in this specific discussion... RGB can even be switched off, so...
YES... I know the supplied fans with the Ceres 500 are RGB, but they'll get put on a VERY tight leash - trust me.

im not saying they cant look nice, just that most dont, they either look tacky or cringe or both in most cases... 

[minervx]

On 7/9/2023 at 6:52 AM, Eighjan said:

"Liquid cooling is best reserved for only the highest end CPU's".

Yes, and this is mainly because it's more expensive on average (and they have a shorter lifespan).  Liquid cooling a mid-range CPU doesn't make sense.

 

Spending money on cooling has diminished returns.

 

You'd get more performance out of a $300 CPU with a $50 air cooler, than a $200 CPU with $100-150+ liquid cooling.