Ooof NVidia... RTX 4060/Ti is a FAIL: DO NOT BUY!!!

[WallacEngineering]

Well, Steve from GN set it best in his video: "The RTX 4060-Ti may actually be Dead on Arrival"

 

The card is basically worthless, with less than 10% performance improvement overall over the much cheaper last-gen 3060-Ti; there is absolutely NO reason for ANYONE to buy this card considering the 60 class is supposed to be a good value.

 

And of course because the non-Ti is just a slightly shaved down version, The results compared to last-gen 3060 non-Ti Well very likely be exactly the same.

 

There is only one positive here: efficiency. A bit more powerful than the 3060-Ti at just 140 Watts??? That is certainly impressive, too bad nobody upgrading cares...

 

So far it seems that everything from Nvidia below the 4070-Ti is just a huge disappointment. Welp, grab your 6700-XTs while you still can

 

Nvidia has just officially made a complete ass of itself.

 

 

 

 

[PDifolco]

5 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Well, Steve from GN set it best in his video: "The RTX 4060-Ti may actually be Dead on Arrival"

 

The card is basically worthless, with less than 10% performance improvement overall over the much cheaper last-gen 3060-Ti; there is absolutely NO reason for ANYONE to buy this card considering the 60 class is supposed to be a good value.

 

And of course because the non-Ti is just a slightly shaved down version, The results compared to last-gen 3060 non-Ti Well very likely be exactly the same.

 

Nvidia has just officially made a complete ass of itself.

 

 

 

 

Yup, NVidia really outperformed themselves in their contempt of customer

 

[Agall]

21 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Well, Steve from GN set it best in his video: "The RTX 4060-Ti may actually be Dead on Arrival"

 

The card is basically worthless, with less than 10% performance improvement overall over the much cheaper last-gen 3060-Ti; there is absolutely NO reason for ANYONE to buy this card considering the 60 class is supposed to be a good value.

 

And of course because the non-Ti is just a slightly shaved down version, The results compared to last-gen 3060 non-Ti Well very likely be exactly the same.

 

Nvidia has just officially made a complete ass of itself.

 

 

 

 

Well its about on par in CUDA cores to the RTX 3050 8GB with an ada lovelace architecture gap.

 

Something I've done to correct for Nvidia's RTX 4000 series binning scheme greed is use the RTX 4090's 16384 shaders and RTX 3090's 10496 shaders to make a relative comparison. Out of the whole RTX 4000 series, the only equivalent bin to RTX 3000 series is the RTX 3090/4090, which are both slightly chopped xx102 GPUs with a comparable die size.

 

RTX 4060ti compares to about 2788 shaders from last generation, which is slightly more than the RTX 3050 8GB's 2560. Nvidia has upsold silicon the whole generation, where the RTX 4080 is really close to an RTX 3070ti, and performs about on par when comparing RTX 3090 to RTX 4090 performance deltas.

 

The generation should've been a ~70% increase in performance noted by the RTX 3090 vs RTX 4090, but its not, because Nvidia is upselling their GPU binning scheme. I was happy to see LTT do a video about it, kind of, but its something I've used to quantify the RTX 4000 series since the RTX 4080 released.

 

I think it would be a cool labs project, make a relative chart of performance delta between RTX 3000 vs RTX 4000 series to validate the die comparison with the 3090/4090 as the 100%. The cross check and data I have I don't have anymore, but it tracked based on the benchmarks I used. Came out to ~60-70% when you do shader count corrected relative performance intergenerationally. 

[xAcid9]

"Don't you have frame gen?" - Jacket man

 

Nvidia probably will announce bunch of games, old & new with frame gen support to justify this card. 

[WallacEngineering]

3 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

"Don't you have frame gen?" - Jacket man

 

Nvidia probably will announce bunch of games, old & new with frame gen support to justify this card. 

Its kind of their only option, really...

[adm0n]

4 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Its kind of their only option, really...

Is it though :c ? I'm feeling like they are currently just slowly increase prices in a generation in which few people are buying cards anyway (recession, lots of people upgraded during 3000 series). That way the next gen, everyone will have accepted those higher prices.

 

The only thing that can stop them is AMD, but so far, while the price was better than Nvidias, they weren't as disruptive as I'd have liked. And they also benefit from people paying more money for the GPUs.

 

Lastly, Nvidia currently doesn't have problems selling their GPUs, because of AI. Their stock is almost at an all time high.

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, adm0n said:

Is it though :c ? I'm feeling like they are currently just slowly increase prices in a generation in which few people are buying cards anyway (recession, lots of people upgraded during 3000 series). That way the next gen, everyone will have accepted those higher prices.

 

The only thing that can stop them is AMD, but so far, while the price was better than Nvidias, they weren't as disruptive as I'd have liked. And they also benefit from people paying more money for the GPUs.

 

Lastly, Nvidia currently doesn't have problems selling their GPUs, because of AI. Their stock is almost at an all time high.

Comparing intergenerational silicon, they're doubling the price of the same size silicon from last generation.

[venomtail]

6 minutes ago, adm0n said:

Is it though :c ? I'm feeling like they are currently just slowly increase prices in a generation in which few people are buying cards anyway (recession, lots of people upgraded during 3000 series). That way the next gen, everyone will have accepted those higher prices.

 

The only thing that can stop them is AMD, but so far, while the price was better than Nvidias, they weren't as disruptive as I'd have liked. And they also benefit from people paying more money for the GPUs.

 

Lastly, Nvidia currently doesn't have problems selling their GPUs, because of AI. Their stock is almost at an all time high.

AMD has no reason to be aggressive if there's no real increase in adoption. No one has money to buy cards even if they did undercut NVIDIA. If AMD drops prices now, the it's a win for the consumer and not a for AMD, so it's not gonna happen.

[WallacEngineering]

5 minutes ago, adm0n said:

Is it though :c ? I'm feeling like they are currently just slowly increase prices in a generation in which few people are buying cards anyway

 

Its the only way to justify the RTX 4060/Ti for anyone - show off DLSS-3 and modern RT-Cores. Thats about the only reason anyone would ever consider one.

 

That or the 16GB model PURELY for having 16GB of RAM so you don't have to worry about it.

 

Pricing going up is inevitable for everyone. We are approaching the physical limits of how far we can shrink Standard Transistors and inflation will always be a thing. The only possible trend is upwards, not counting scalping of course.

[adm0n]

4 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

 

Its the only way to justify the RTX 4060/Ti for anyone - show off DLSS-3 and modern RT-Cores. Thats about the only reason anyone would ever consider one.

 

That or the 16GB model PURELY for having 16GB of RAM so you don't have to worry about it.

 

Pricing going up is inevitable for everyone. We are approaching the physical limits of how far we can shrink Standard Transistors and inflation will always be a thing. The only possible trend is upwards, not counting scalping of course.

But what we are experiencing right now, goes beyond the price increase from TSMC or inflation. Nvidia just figured out during the pandemic, that people are willing to pay way more for the same performance, and now they are just trying to make it the new norm. And they are succeeding.

 

At least the 4060 will be a fun low power card in like 5 years, when you can get it used for 100$. At least if it ever comes to that ...

[WallacEngineering]

5 minutes ago, adm0n said:

But what we are experiencing right now, goes beyond the price increase from TSMC or inflation. Nvidia just figured out during the pandemic, that people are willing to pay way more for the same performance, and now they are just trying to make it the new norm. And they are succeeding.

 

At least the 4060 will be a fun low power card in like 5 years, when you can get it used for 100$. At least if it ever comes to that ...

 

Agreed, there is some truth to both those things, and thats why the RTX 4060/Ti are going to flop super hard. Nobody is going to pay those inflated prices for basically no reason (no performance increase)

[adm0n]

Just now, WallacEngineering said:

Nobody is going to pay those inflated prices for basically no reason (no performance increase)

Well, I guess that is true for informed people. But if there are no 3000 series cards available anymore and AMDs 6000 series stock also runs dry, it's not like you have a choice anymore. And lots of people are not comfortable to buy used cards. So I'd wager the cards will still sell in the long run.

 

But I hope I'm wrong and they are forced to correct next gen hard or lose a lot of market share to AMD.

[WallacEngineering]

17 minutes ago, adm0n said:

Well, I guess that is true for informed people...

 

But I hope I'm wrong and they are forced to correct next gen hard or lose a lot of market share to AMD.

 

Agreed. The dumbest thing by far is the fact that the narrow 128-bit BUS causes the 4060-Ti to actually LOSE to the 3060-Ti in some cases, particularly in VRAM intensive games or professional workloads.

 

Im guessing a traditional 192-Bit BUS would have easily given the 4060-Ti another 10% in performance, and then there would at LEAST be some actual reason to buy one lol

 

If 4060-Ti 16GB becomes a cheapy $200 used card in the future, thats when I would buy one, although I wouldn't myself (7900-XTX owner, see signature)

[Shlouski]

8 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

The dumbest thing by far is the fact that the narrow 128-bit BUS causes the 4060-Ti to actually LOSE to the 3060-Ti in some cases, particularly in VRAM intensive games or professional workloads.

 

Nvidia nerfed the memory bus on the new cards to make them bad at mining, why make locked cards that only target a few algorithms which might be unlocked at some point in the future anyway, when you can just make them bad even when they are at their best. 

[WallacEngineering]

2 hours ago, Shlouski said:

 

Nvidia nerfed the memory bus on the new cards to make them bad at mining, why make locked cards that only target a few algorithms which might be unlocked at some point in the future anyway, when you can just make them bad even when they are at their best. 

 

See on paper that makes sense but in practice it definitely nerfed its gaming performance as well, that just doesn't make any sense for them.

 

Also, mining craze is over, so why would they care now...?

[WallacEngineering]

Figured I should add this one in, Hardware Unboxed does good work:

 

 

[ScoggsUK]

Damn, I was so looking forward to retiring my second hand 1080 this generation. 

 

Waiting on what team red has to offer, but I might have to go with a last gen team red card.

[bramturismo]

2 hours ago, ScoggsUK said:

Damn, I was so looking forward to retiring my second hand 1080 this generation. 

 

Waiting on what team red has to offer, but I might have to go with a last gen team red card.

Get yourself a $650 6950XT as long as stock lasts...

[Shlouski]

2 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

in practice it definitely nerfed its gaming performance as well, that just doesn't make any sense for them

 

This is true, but it hits mining performance much harder. 

 

2 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

Also, mining craze is over, so why would they care now...?

 

The cards have been under development for a long time, long before the mining craze was over, and I doubt they would bothered to upgrade the bus after mining was dead.

 

Perhaps they don't want the cards being used for mining in future bullruns so they can sell their future cmp cards. 

[WallacEngineering]

2 hours ago, Shlouski said:

Perhaps they don't want the cards being used for mining in future bullruns so they can sell their future cmp cards. 

 

Ah yea I forgot about development cycles.

 

The fact is that Nvidia is already beginning to think about RTX 5000.

[starsmine]

13 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

"Don't you have frame gen?" - Jacket man

 

Nvidia probably will announce bunch of games, old & new with frame gen support to justify this card. 

I Hope they dont.

make your game look worse and play worse but look temporally smoother, OH BOY

Like its a cool tech, but if they insist on pushing it like its the solution today, the backlash needs to be stronger. 

[WallacEngineering]

9 minutes ago, starsmine said:

I Hope they dont.

make your game look worse and play worse but look temporally smoother, OH BOY

Like its a cool tech, but if they insist on pushing it like its the solution today, the backlash needs to be stronger. 

 

Don't you worry, the backlash from reviewers and the community is already MASSIVE over this release, its kind of hilarious to watch. Go take a look at the comments sections in the videos

[xAcid9]

Texture don't load properly, 

Look at the frametime graph in Spiderman..

couple of weeks ago HBU shown similar behavior with 8GB 3070 iirc. 

 

 

But.. but.. muh frame gen

 

[Dedayog]

And the 7600 for $269 is unleashed

 

https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/24/23735679/amd-radeon-rx-7600-gpu-rdna3-specs-price-release-launch

 

[WallacEngineering]

31 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

And the 7600 for $269 is unleashed

 

 

Yep, we have been discussing it.

 

Another epic fail. Seems Mid-Tier GPUs are just garbage in general.