Manjaro - Workstation/Gaming - Motherboard concerns for 7950X3D

[QuattroTom]

Budget (including currency): £3000ish - NOT INCLUDING WATER COOLING

Country: UK

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for:

The PC will be running Manjaro and will be used for work, hence the need for at least 16 cores, as well as gaming in downtime.

 

Other details:

I have a second GPU I want to run in an eGPU case and use virtualisation for workflow, basically pass one of the many M.2 slots and a GPU (VIFO) via Thunderbolt to create the ability to use Looking Glass from LV1 Techs to split my work/play.

 

The build will end up custom looped, so for now, I am getting the Deepcool AK620 as it seems to have no problems cooling these CPUs. Also, most of my games run fine on Linux, and I prefer it to Windows.

I was quite happy with my build, but a friend is lending me his 7950X until they iron out the kinks with the 7950X3D, and when prices reach a more sensible level.

 

Seeing all the drama with ASUS boards and BIOS problems with the 7950X3D and some MSI boards, I am concerned about my choice of motherboard.

I know I don't "need" an X670E motherboard for gaming, but the extra M.2 slots, and it has Thunderbolt, so no need to add a PCIE card to get my eGPU working.

 

What motherboards can I consider a safe bet? I am worried ASUS might never resolve their BIOS problems, and releasing BETA BIOS is not inspiring confidence.

 

I chose the AMD 7900XTX over NVIDIA because I never really cared for Ray Tracing, and Linux support is better on AMD, and thanks to Steam's Proton, most of my gaming is done in Linux nowadays.

A link to my build so far is here https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/TheThomen/saved/qHjGkL I will keep this the same for the sake of record in this thread. And a live one I will update with any comments here https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/TheThomen/saved/tD3R4D

I will be using the HYTE Y60 ATX Mid Tower Case because I just like it, and the Corsair HX1000i as I generally like the Corsair branch of PSU. I already own a CRG9 5120x1440 monitor, a G915, and a G502X, so no need to purchase any additional peripherals.

 

Some items are missing like secondary M.2's I will recycle and the Quadro GPU in eGPU Case

 

SSD - Open to change this as I know Samsung's not what it used to be cant recall exactly what I had seen but there was something like read lock up. 

 

TDLR
Basically looking for advice regarding motherboards and 7950X3D
And open to comments on the build I have planned as I'm allways open to learning its been a LONG time since I built a new system of this magnitude
I tinker with server hardware more than consumer so I'm sure I can handle it (I have a friend to help me with the custom loop when the time comes)

 

Thank you for your time and reading my post I hope to hear some advice regarding this matter.

Regards,

QuattroTom

 

[Shimejii]

I would HEAVILY recommend against custom liquid  cooling for a workstation. Its by far one of the worst ways you can screw yourself over if something happens. You want the most reliable items for a workstation.

 

Also 7950x3D is not great for workstation use for 16 cores since it comes down to scheduling issues, Not sure how well its handled on linux since it has to chose whether to use the 8 fast cores or the 8 Cores with vcache.

 

Also If you are spending a ton of money like that, just get two separate systems. Have a work system and a gaming system. You could get a 13600k+7900xtx or 7700x/7800x3d. Custom Liquid cooling gets quite expensive pretty fast. Also unless you are doing 4k 144hz+ Gaming, you also dont need the high end gpus. 4090 is pretty much designed for 4k gaming, it makes 0 sense for 1080p and its a harder argument for 1440p but i can see it if you have high fps games or if you like just putting on the dumb effects.

 

Are you sure you want that hyte case? It performs pretty meh, there are better cases than that one. But if you like it you like it.

[Agall]

15 minutes ago, QuattroTom said:

Budget (including currency): £3000ish - NOT INCLUDING WATER COOLING

Country: UK

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for:

The PC will be running Manjaro and will be used for work, hence the need for at least 16 cores, as well as gaming in downtime.

 

Other details:

I have a second GPU I want to run in an eGPU case and use virtualisation for workflow, basically pass one of the many M.2 slots and a GPU (VIFO) via Thunderbolt to create the ability to use Looking Glass from LV1 Techs to split my work/play.

 

The build will end up custom looped, so for now, I am getting the Deepcool AK620 as it seems to have no problems cooling these CPUs. Also, most of my games run fine on Linux, and I prefer it to Windows.

I was quite happy with my build, but a friend is lending me his 7950X until they iron out the kinks with the 7950X3D, and when prices reach a more sensible level.

 

Seeing all the drama with ASUS boards and BIOS problems with the 7950X3D and some MSI boards, I am concerned about my choice of motherboard.

I know I don't "need" an X670E motherboard for gaming, but the extra M.2 slots, and it has Thunderbolt, so no need to add a PCIE card to get my eGPU working.

 

What motherboards can I consider a safe bet? I am worried ASUS might never resolve their BIOS problems, and releasing BETA BIOS is not inspiring confidence.

 

I chose the AMD 7900XTX over NVIDIA because I never really cared for Ray Tracing, and Linux support is better on AMD, and thanks to Steam's Proton, most of my gaming is done in Linux nowadays.

A link to my build so far is here https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/TheThomen/saved/qHjGkL I will keep this the same for the sake of record in this thread. And a live one I will update with any comments here https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/TheThomen/saved/tD3R4D

I will be using the HYTE Y60 ATX Mid Tower Case because I just like it, and the Corsair HX1000i as I generally like the Corsair branch of PSU. I already own a CRG9 5120x1440 monitor, a G915, and a G502X, so no need to purchase any additional peripherals.

 

Some items are missing like secondary M.2's I will recycle and the Quadro GPU in eGPU Case

 

SSD - Open to change this as I know Samsung's not what it used to be cant recall exactly what I had seen but there was something like read lock up. 

 

TDLR
Basically looking for advice regarding motherboards and 7950X3D
And open to comments on the build I have planned as I'm allways open to learning its been a LONG time since I built a new system of this magnitude
I tinker with server hardware more than consumer so I'm sure I can handle it (I have a friend to help me with the custom loop when the time comes)

 

Thank you for your time and reading my post I hope to hear some advice regarding this matter.

Regards,

QuattroTom

 

ASUS ProArt X670E-Creator WiFi 6E Socket AM5 (LGA 1718) Ryzen 7000 ATX Content Creator Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 16+2 Power Stages, USB4, 10Gb & 2.5Gb LAN, WiFi 6E, Four M.2 Slots) - Newegg.com

 

I'd just snag a 7950x over the 7950x3D. Its really more of a gamer epeen product than a 'best of both worlds' for productivity and gaming. The hybrid design is really cool and is fun to tune and play with, but it really is a gamer/tweaker's product than a productivity CPU.

[ahmad13610]

7950X3D + custom AIO

 

all done

[QuattroTom]

14 hours ago, Agall said:

ASUS ProArt X670E-Creator WiFi 6E Socket AM5 (LGA 1718) Ryzen 7000 ATX Content Creator Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 16+2 Power Stages, USB4, 10Gb & 2.5Gb LAN, WiFi 6E, Four M.2 Slots) - Newegg.com

 

I'd just snag a 7950x over the 7950x3D. Its really more of a gamer epeen product than a 'best of both worlds' for productivity and gaming. The hybrid design is really cool and is fun to tune and play with, but it really is a gamer/tweaker's product than a productivity CPU.

Why is this motherboard better mate? and tbh im thinking the same unless the X3D becomes seriously stable all of a sudden

[QuattroTom]

14 hours ago, Shimejii said:

I would HEAVILY recommend against custom liquid  cooling for a workstation. Its by far one of the worst ways you can screw yourself over if something happens. You want the most reliable items for a workstation.

 

Also 7950x3D is not great for workstation use for 16 cores since it comes down to scheduling issues, Not sure how well its handled on linux since it has to chose whether to use the 8 fast cores or the 8 Cores with vcache.

 

Also If you are spending a ton of money like that, just get two separate systems. Have a work system and a gaming system. You could get a 13600k+7900xtx or 7700x/7800x3d. Custom Liquid cooling gets quite expensive pretty fast. Also unless you are doing 4k 144hz+ Gaming, you also dont need the high end gpus. 4090 is pretty much designed for 4k gaming, it makes 0 sense for 1080p and its a harder argument for 1440p but i can see it if you have high fps games or if you like just putting on the dumb effects.

 

Are you sure you want that hyte case? It performs pretty meh, there are better cases than that one. But if you like it you like it.

Hi Shimejii

thanks for the comment

To my understanding if the 8 fast cores are full it spills over the infinity fabric to use the other 8 cores with negligible lag

I want to drive my CRG9 at the best i can so i decided on the best AMD gpu i can get
I thought custom water cooling was pretty solid these days? My friends systems been running for 5 years no leaks or issues

And I tinker alot with Blender and rendering so the horsepower would be needed

Also I have a I9 laptop as a backup system and all the works cloud based so if there was a issue it wouldn't be the end of the world it would just temporarily put me out of action. I'm willing to accept the risk for this but I do agree with what your saying
Also I can assign the vm to only use the V cache cores and I'm hoping seeing as some of the software's are memory intensive such as REVIT it would provide a benefit in load times 

[Agall]

2 hours ago, QuattroTom said:

Why is this motherboard better mate? and tbh im thinking the same unless the X3D becomes seriously stable all of a sudden

Its not stability that would be concerning about recommending a 7950x3D for a workstation (that also games), its the performance and consistency. The 7950x3D takes a lot of work to get it right, outside of just disabling CCD1, where you're losing out on productivity performance for the sake of some gaming performance.

 

I have a server at work with a 7950x and a 7950x3D at home, so I have experience with both chips. 

 

The motherboard I linked has USB4, which SHOULD have TB3 (since that's part of USB4 although sometimes that standard isn't respected properly) so you'd possibly have onboard thunderbolt.

[QuattroTom]

55 minutes ago, Agall said:

Its not stability that would be concerning about recommending a 7950x3D for a workstation (that also games), its the performance and consistency. The 7950x3D takes a lot of work to get it right, outside of just disabling CCD1, where you're losing out on productivity performance for the sake of some gaming performance.

 

I have a server at work with a 7950x and a 7950x3D at home, so I have experience with both chips. 

 

The motherboard I linked has USB4, which SHOULD have TB3 (since that's part of USB4 although sometimes that standard isn't respected properly) so you'd possibly have onboard thunderbolt.

I see what you mean now, also the  https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-x670e-e-gaming-wifi-model/ Has a thunderbolt header i was planning on using although not sure what type it has

[Agall]

11 minutes ago, QuattroTom said:

I see what you mean now, also the  https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-x670e-e-gaming-wifi-model/ Has a thunderbolt header i was planning on using although not sure what type it has

ASUS ThunderboltEX 4 with Intel Thunderbolt 4 JHL 8540 Controller, 2 USB Type-C ports, up to 40Gb/s Bi-directional Bandwidth and Incorporates DisplayPort 1.4 support, up to 100W Quick Charge - Newegg.com

 

Though TBH if you need thunderbolt, you mind as well just go with a 13900k. 

 

ASUS ProArt Z790-Creator WiFi 6E LGA 1700 (Intel 12th&13th Gen) ATX Content Creator Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 2x Thunderbolt 4 Type-C ports, 10G&2.5G LAN, 4xM.2/NVMe SSD) - Newegg.com

 

Same motherboard in Z790 just comes with thunderbolt.

 

Compatibility list for X670 for that TB4 card:

ROG STRIX X670E-E GAMING WIFI TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI ROG STRIX X670E-F GAMING WIFI TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS ROG STRIX X670E-A GAMING WIFI PRIME X670E-PRO WIFI PRIME X670-P WIFI PRIME X670-P

[QuattroTom]

13 minutes ago, Agall said:

ASUS ThunderboltEX 4 with Intel Thunderbolt 4 JHL 8540 Controller, 2 USB Type-C ports, up to 40Gb/s Bi-directional Bandwidth and Incorporates DisplayPort 1.4 support, up to 100W Quick Charge - Newegg.com

 

Though TBH if you need thunderbolt, you mind as well just go with a 13900k. 

 

ASUS ProArt Z790-Creator WiFi 6E LGA 1700 (Intel 12th&13th Gen) ATX Content Creator Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 2x Thunderbolt 4 Type-C ports, 10G&2.5G LAN, 4xM.2/NVMe SSD) - Newegg.com

 

Same motherboard in Z790 just comes with thunderbolt.

 

Compatibility list for X670 for that TB4 card:

ROG STRIX X670E-E GAMING WIFI TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI ROG STRIX X670E-F GAMING WIFI TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS ROG STRIX X670E-A GAMING WIFI PRIME X670E-PRO WIFI PRIME X670-P WIFI PRIME X670-P

I see what you mean now, also the  https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-x670e-e-gaming-wifi-model/ Has a thunderbolt header i was planning on using although not sure what type it has

Also so can you give me a detailed explanation of how it limits Ur productivity? surely in a core intensive application u get some fast cores and some standard do i cant understand how 8 cache and 8 normal cores is worse than 16 normal cores?

Not saying your wrong I'm just trying to understand bud

[Agall]

25 minutes ago, QuattroTom said:

I see what you mean now, also the  https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-x670e-e-gaming-wifi-model/ Has a thunderbolt header i was planning on using although not sure what type it has

Also so can you give me a detailed explanation of how it limits Ur productivity? surely in a core intensive application u get some fast cores and some standard do i cant understand how 8 cache and 8 normal cores is worse than 16 normal cores?

Not saying your wrong I'm just trying to understand bud

Unless you're disabling CCD1 to effectively have an 8c/16t 7800x3D, then its using parking to function effectively like a 7800x3D using the 3D v-cache optimizer driver. So in scenarios where you're gaming, you're effectively using a 7800x3D, but when its not, you're running a weaker 7950x since CCD0 with the 3D v-cache tends to clock about -500/600MHz lower. So you're losing a decent amount of performance in multicore for half of the cores for more of the price.

 

If you want the 7950x3D as an enthusiast and can spend the time to optimize it properly, then sure, but realize you're losing multicore performance in doing so over the cheaper 7950x. 7950x3D is really a niche product, and from my experience with it, its more of a gamer product than a productivity product.

 

7950x is hard to argue against at $570 versus a (probably not in stock anyways) 7950x3D at $700. Now based on "The PC will be running Manjaro and will be used for work, hence the need for at least 16 cores, as well as gaming in downtime." I'd say you're likely to benefit more from the 7950x versus the 7950x3D, because it is a trade-off.

 

My rig at home with the 7950x3D is exclusively used for gaming/overclocking, and the 7950x is a server at work running Server 2019 that I used a 7950x for specifically because the server's application needs high IPC/frequency.

 

If one of your requirements is thunderbolt, then I'd genuinely just get a 13900k, which is basically on par with the 7950x for single/multicore. I'm unsure of how the 13900k handles virtualization, specifically if its core allocation and thread director can handle it well, but I imagine allocating E cores to a VM wouldn't be a terrible thing if it lets you. For this server, I thought about going for a 13900k, but I was worried that Server 2019 isn't designed for big-little architecture, and the server's application is single core optimized, so it needed 16 physical and equal cores.

 

How does Hyper-V manage the core allocation with an Intel i9-13900(k)? - Microsoft Q&A

 

I went with the 7950x3D for three reasons:

 

-They delayed the 7800x3D so people like me would buy the 7950x3D.

-I thought it would be fun, since its been years since I did HEAVY CPU overclocking and optimization and this CPU is genuinely unique and interesting to play with.

-My brother's R5 3600 with 16GB 3200MHz RAM was really holding his system back, so getting my 5800x3D and 32GB 3600 RAM kit was a huge upgrade for him.

[QuattroTom]

3 hours ago, Agall said:

Unless you're disabling CCD1 to effectively have an 8c/16t 7800x3D, then its using parking to function effectively like a 7800x3D using the 3D v-cache optimizer driver. So in scenarios where you're gaming, you're effectively using a 7800x3D, but when its not, you're running a weaker 7950x since CCD0 with the 3D v-cache tends to clock about -500/600MHz lower. So you're losing a decent amount of performance in multicore for half of the cores for more of the price.

 

If you want the 7950x3D as an enthusiast and can spend the time to optimize it properly, then sure, but realize you're losing multicore performance in doing so over the cheaper 7950x. 7950x3D is really a niche product, and from my experience with it, its more of a gamer product than a productivity product.

 

7950x is hard to argue against at $570 versus a (probably not in stock anyways) 7950x3D at $700. Now based on "The PC will be running Manjaro and will be used for work, hence the need for at least 16 cores, as well as gaming in downtime." I'd say you're likely to benefit more from the 7950x versus the 7950x3D, because it is a trade-off.

 

My rig at home with the 7950x3D is exclusively used for gaming/overclocking, and the 7950x is a server at work running Server 2019 that I used a 7950x for specifically because the server's application needs high IPC/frequency.

 

If one of your requirements is thunderbolt, then I'd genuinely just get a 13900k, which is basically on par with the 7950x for single/multicore. I'm unsure of how the 13900k handles virtualization, specifically if its core allocation and thread director can handle it well, but I imagine allocating E cores to a VM wouldn't be a terrible thing if it lets you. For this server, I thought about going for a 13900k, but I was worried that Server 2019 isn't designed for big-little architecture, and the server's application is single core optimized, so it needed 16 physical and equal cores.

 

How does Hyper-V manage the core allocation with an Intel i9-13900(k)? - Microsoft Q&A

 

I went with the 7950x3D for three reasons:

 

-They delayed the 7800x3D so people like me would buy the 7950x3D.

-I thought it would be fun, since its been years since I did HEAVY CPU overclocking and optimization and this CPU is genuinely unique and interesting to play with.

-My brother's R5 3600 with 16GB 3200MHz RAM was really holding his system back, so getting my 5800x3D and 32GB 3600 RAM kit was a huge upgrade for him.

I just looked into the 13900k in great detail, I think its a great cpu and platform but i noticed that its chipset is end of life really soon and there releasing a new architecture.

The 13900k would work out a margin cheaper than the amd but were talking £80
"If one of your requirements is thunderbolt, then I'd genuinely just get a 13900k, which is basically on par with the 7950x for single/multicore" 
Why dose the platform matter because the AM5 motherboards I'm looking at has Thunderbolt headers? I don't understand why if thunderbolt is a requirement to go team blue.

I'm also trying to look past my comfort zone / bias , I have only ever built AMD systems and I have always gone with AMD as cheaper and close enough performance. 

 

Also I feel that the use for Linux and the 7950x3D will mature and develop leaving me a possible upgrade path? And now were talking about E cores I'm not sure if that would work out well for me might be as complicated as if it was a X3D. My instinct tells me that a 7950x like you said would be a better choice for now until we know the effects of virtualisation on X3D.

I think Intel is probably more stable with there motherboards? After all my main concern was bios on AM5 

Also I apologise if I'm being a pain in the ass I'm just stressed over what to do and I appreciate your input

[Agall]

6 hours ago, QuattroTom said:

I just looked into the 13900k in great detail, I think its a great cpu and platform but i noticed that its chipset is end of life really soon and there releasing a new architecture.

The 13900k would work out a margin cheaper than the amd but were talking £80
"If one of your requirements is thunderbolt, then I'd genuinely just get a 13900k, which is basically on par with the 7950x for single/multicore" 
Why dose the platform matter because the AM5 motherboards I'm looking at has Thunderbolt headers? I don't understand why if thunderbolt is a requirement to go team blue.

I'm also trying to look past my comfort zone / bias , I have only ever built AMD systems and I have always gone with AMD as cheaper and close enough performance. 

 

Also I feel that the use for Linux and the 7950x3D will mature and develop leaving me a possible upgrade path? And now were talking about E cores I'm not sure if that would work out well for me might be as complicated as if it was a X3D. My instinct tells me that a 7950x like you said would be a better choice for now until we know the effects of virtualisation on X3D.

I think Intel is probably more stable with there motherboards? After all my main concern was bios on AM5 

Also I apologise if I'm being a pain in the ass I'm just stressed over what to do and I appreciate your input

Thunderbolt in itself is owned by Intel. Asus does a weird thing where they allow this expansion system with a discrete thunderbolt controller to get TB3. I'm going to presume that TB3 using a discrete controller over native to the chipset is going to be not as good as direct, especially for an eGPU (I've had a razer core since 2016 and daily drove one for a year with a razer blade) since they can be pretty problematic with latency if you're trying to have low latency.

 

The single and multicore performance of the 13900k compared to the 7950x is within margin of error, if not better with a healthy overclock and has TB4 native to the chipset. Really the only downside in your scenario is the higher wattage, although the 7950x will scream at 250W if you let it just like the 13900k.

 

 

Clearly my 7950x3D can reach 10.8GHz and its not a bug. 7950x3D is such a weird chip that I wouldn't run it for a primary workstation chip for those reasons, and the tuning required.

 

 

If this isn't very recently published evidence I'm watching now while eating.