evga Replaced the fan in my EVGA PSU, EVGA says I broke the seal thus that voids the warranty.

[MikeyRam08]

I just wanted to get this out there, I thought here was good.

 

I emailed EVGA about replacing the fan in one of their PSU's I have. A fan should be the simplest thing to change, right?

They obviously didn't want me do that and that I had to pay the upwards of $16 to ship it from MI to CA, it's a 5lb box. To get an RMA done because of the $1 to $2 fan they used. 

Well after some research, neweggs product page, I found out it's just a 120mm fan, ok, I have 2 of those laying around. 

So, I swapped the fan myself. LTT Screwdriver, lttstore.com. It works great and no more noise. It sounded horrible this morning. Noting the replacement fan is less amps than the bad one, if anyone was concerned. 

 

In a message from EVGA they said:

"Hello

Thanks for reaching back out. This is simply because there is a OEM manufacturer of the PSU itself that requires us to process this for warranty with that specific OEM and since the item was opened it unfortunately is no longer under warranty so if the device suffers some type of failure such as not posting we will not be able to replace it. 

Regards
EVGA"

 

In another message they said "Unfortunately, this product is still out of warranty as you had broken the seal rendering it out of warranty."

 

Honestly I saved myself $16ish in shipping, EVGA $16ish in return shipping and saved them to pay a tech, who knows how much, to change a fan. 

Also it's a security PC, it runs 24/7, very important pc. 

I know they say, not to open PSUs, "there are no serviceable parts and risk of shock" but the fan is changeable and I touched nothing but the fan and its plug. 

There was only 677 days left in the warranty so it not that big of a deal if it's not covered. Plus if it does die, Amazon PSU next day, get that security PC working. 

 

It's just sad to see, I'm saving the company money and they will no longer honor the warranty if something serious actually fails. 

 

[da na]

To be fair you did exactly what it said not to do, doesn't matter if that was just to fix the fan. 

[Skiiwee29]

There is much more than just a "Simple" 120mm fan from off the shelf. There are certain components that need the airflow and a simple no name fan with little to no static pressure or proper flow will provide the needed airflow. You possibly could have doomed that PSU (and possibly the Critical Security PC) to a spectacular failure in the future from DIYing the fan replacement.

[aDoomGuy]

Yeah I don't think EVGA cares the slightest about 1 less shipped item. This one is on you.

[kb5zue]

So, it was just the fan, not a big deal and everything worked out right with the exception of voiding the warranty and saving a few bucks in shipping.  Okay, got it.

 

But since you violated the label and voided the warranty that makes you the bad guy and we can live with that.  But where do we stand if you accidently forgot to unplug the PSU from the wall and touched one of the high voltage caps inside the PSU while changing the fan?  And in touching the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong tool, or maybe even a finger, and in doing so you electrocuted yourself and died right there on the floor.  And since your mom, dad, or signicant other was at work when you died your body did not get found until hours later.  Who is going to take responsibility for your death?

 

I know it sounds crazy and the situation I described above is a little out of left field, but think about it, who accepts responsibility for your death?  Will your family sue the makers of the PSU for your death?  It's a bad situation all the way around, no doubt about it.

 

One last note before I end this rant.  There is a reason those labels and stickers are on electrical devices such as your PSU.  They are there for our own protection.

 

Good Luck.

[True]

That's actually illegal in USA    call them on it.

 

https://www.ifixit.com/News/15464/warranty-voiding-stickers-are-illegal-but-these-companies-are-still-using-them

 

file a FTC complaint  they have been on the industries ass for this,

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-staff-warns-companies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage-use-specified-parts-or-services

 

[MikeyRam08]

I'm thinking most companies would say not to open their products and they would rather fix it themselves. Seals, void stickers in the USA at least are not enforceable. The PC runs one program, doesn't work the PSU at all. I'm not worried about if the CFM is perfectly the same. 

 

They put labels on stuff, like "don't eat soap" or "don't eat tide-pods", because, for lack of a better word, stupid people have done it. WIth a background in electronics, I know not to touch compounds in a PSU, even after it has been unplugged. 

[Godlygamer23]

24 minutes ago, kb5zue said:

So, it was just the fan, not a big deal and everything worked out right with the exception of voiding the warranty and saving a few bucks in shipping.  Okay, got it.

 

But since you violated the label and voided the warranty that makes you the bad guy and we can live with that.  But where do we stand if you accidently forgot to unplug the PSU from the wall and touched one of the high voltage caps inside the PSU while changing the fan?  And in touching the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong tool, or maybe even a finger, and in doing so you electrocuted yourself and died right there on the floor.  And since your mom, dad, or signicant other was at work when you died your body did not get found until hours later.  Who is going to take responsibility for your death?

 

I know it sounds crazy and the situation I described above is a little out of left field, but think about it, who accepts responsibility for your death?  Will your family sue the makers of the PSU for your death?  It's a bad situation all the way around, no doubt about it.

 

One last note before I end this rant.  There is a reason those labels and stickers are on electrical devices such as your PSU.  They are there for our own protection.

 

Good Luck.

Fairly certain that if someone died or got injured from a shock from a power supply...the manufacturer of the power supply would not be able to be sued. There are warnings present on the power supply itself, and in my opinion, because electricity has the potential to be so dangerous, the individual should be expected to educate themselves on such issues before attempting repairs. In other words, whatever injuries they experience due to electricity directly that _isn't_ a design flaw with the product is their own fault. People need to take responsibility for their own actions, and in this case, the manufacturer would NOT be responsible, even remotely.

 

Additionally, voiding a warranty due to someone tampering with a warranty void sticker is NOT legally enforceable, at least here in the states. And in my opinion, if a product has issues after a repair, a manufacturer must be able to prove the modification itself caused the fault...Just like with a car.

[Lurking]

You didn't just remove the sticker, you also replaced the fan. Not only could the fan provide insufficient cooling, you also could have damaged something or dropped a screw in. Even if that didn't happen, a manufacturer still should assume it did happen. 

 

I'm all for right to repair etc. But if the manufacturer offered to fix or replace the PSU for free, and you refused....not much to help.

 

When your car breaks under warranty you also have to drive it to the dealer with your fuel on your time. You can't just replace one of the planetary gears to "fix" it yourself and then expect the manufacturer to give you a free tranny since your repair didn't fix it. 

 

And the FTC didn't rule anything applying to this case nor did they make a law. They told 3 different companies something they violated and they had to change something. You don't know the entire context, and obviously had nothing to do with this PSU's manufacturer. 

 

Warranty conditions and the need to send it in was known at time of purchase and agreed to. Manufacturer did nothing unexpected or wrong and is in line with all other manufacturers.

[crazyfrog]

While I’d happily replace a fan and take the casing apart to clean it out I don’t think fair to expect a manufacturer to work on a AC power supply that’s been taken apart by a user as it’s easy to get a shock of these if the user doesn’t reassemble well.

[Godlygamer23]

20 minutes ago, crazyfrog said:

While I’d happily replace a fan and take the casing apart to clean it out I don’t think fair to expect a manufacturer to work on a AC power supply that’s been taken apart by a user as it’s easy to get a shock of these if the user doesn’t reassemble well.

I highly doubt replacing a fan would cause any real issues by itself. Although we are left with limited information on what fan was actually used.

I also guarantee that the manufacturer has an absolutely proper way of discharging the power supply so shock would be a non-issue, even if that could happen. 

 

Also voiding a warranty just because someone broke the seal? Prove that they damaged the power supply. Prove the fan replacement caused it. You can't? Okay, then warranty is not invalid.

[crazyfrog]

9 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

I highly doubt replacing a fan would cause any real issues by itself. Although we are left with limited information on what fan was actually used.

I also guarantee that the manufacturer has an absolutely proper way of discharging the power supply so shock would be a non-issue, even if that could happen. 

 

Also voiding a warranty just because someone broke the seal? Prove that they damaged the power supply. Prove the fan replacement caused it. You can't? Okay, then warranty is not invalid.

No the stuff that would kill you is isolated from the outside it can’t be discharged without stripping the whole thing down. The way an RMA would work is it would be plugged in and tested, no taking apart. If the insides of a sealed unit with what are expected to be non serviceable parts are different then it’s not really the same item. 

[Godlygamer23]

5 minutes ago, crazyfrog said:

No the stuff that would kill you is isolated from the outside it can’t be discharged without stripping the whole thing down.

And there's a process in place for that. The manufacturer 100% knows how to do it.

6 minutes ago, crazyfrog said:

The way an RMA would work is it would be plugged in and tested, no taking apart. If the insides of a sealed unit with what are expected to be non serviceable parts are different then it’s not really the same item. 

Replacing a fan is very different than replacing a capacitor on a board. If they cannot prove there were any additional modifications to the power supply, or any other sub-assembly, in my opinion, the warranty is not invalid. Additionally, in my opinion, they would have to prove the modification caused the fault.

[mdk777]

34 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Replacing a fan is very different than replacing a capacitor on a board. If they cannot prove there were any additional modifications to the power supply, or any other sub-assembly, in my opinion, the warranty is not invalid. Additionally, in my opinion, they would have to prove the modification caused the fault.

yeah, there are two parts to this,

the theoretical, and the practical.

 

In theory, I am all for the right to repair.

There are significant cases going through the courts regarding this.

 

ie. John Deere saying you can't change any software on your tractor, they only lic. that software to you.

So you end up not actually owing the item, but only renting it based on terms you may or may not like/agree to/ understand.

 

Tesla cars are another example....you pay for a feature and then it is taken away for some reason (they don't like how you drive or you publish a critic of the company they don't like )

 

So these are extreme cases of actually TAKING back an item that is already sold if you attempt to repair it.

 

This is not the case with a warranty. A warranty is a promise with conditions.

 

You void the conditions, you no longer get the promise.

 

So, they are not denying you the right to repair, ....do as you like....the PSU will not stop working, they will not send a kill signal to it after you open the case(AS TESLA DOES)

 

However, you have voided the warranty and regardless of your opinion or views, you are not going to get service from this seller.

 

That is the practical reality regardless of your theoretical biases  

 

 

[Lurking]

2 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Replacing a fan is very different than replacing a capacitor on a board. If they cannot prove there were any additional modifications to the power supply, or any other sub-assembly, in my opinion, the warranty is not invalid. Additionally, in my opinion, they would have to prove the modification caused the fault.

Manufacturer doesn't have to proof anything. That is what the seal is for. Broken seal proofs the unit was tempered with. That is enough evidence. The exact tempering doesn't matter, the fact it was tempered with mattered. Like in the old days when they sealed letters. if the seal was broken, the recipient couldn't proof someone read the letter, but could assume 100% it was read by an unauthorized person. If this practice with seals would be illegal like "someone on the internet " claimed, it should be easy to get a class action law suit started. Until that happens and is successful, you are better served to assume the seal should not be broken. 

 

I don't know if the US has a legally required warranty (like the EU). If so, that may have additional protection. But that sure wouldn't be as long of a warranty as the VOLUNTARY manufacturer warranty. And for what is above the legal requirement, the manufacturer can set the rules. OP agreed to those rules by buying. 

 

Let's be honest here. OP tried to save $16 that could have gotten them a brand new PSU. That was penny-wise and turned out to be pound-foolish. Now they are angry that they missed out on that opportunity. Happens to all of us and I hope lessons will be learned. 

 

 

[Godlygamer23]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:08 PM, Lurking said:

Manufacturer doesn't have to proof anything. That is what the seal is for. Broken seal proofs the unit was tempered with. That is enough evidence. The exact tempering doesn't matter, the fact it was tempered with mattered. Like in the old days when they sealed letters. if the seal was broken, the recipient couldn't proof someone read the letter, but could assume 100% it was read by an unauthorized person. If this practice with seals would be illegal like "someone on the internet " claimed, it should be easy to get a class action law suit started. Until that happens and is successful, you are better served to assume the seal should not be broken. 

Voiding a warranty because the owner of the device opened their product to perform a repair outside of the manufacturer is illegal. This isn't some random information...This is something coming from the FTC. I have a letter attached from the FTC to various companies, including ASUS about warranty void stickers, among other things. 

 

Some articles too:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xw7b3z/warranty-void-if-removed-stickers-sony-microsoft-nintendo-ftc-letters

https://www.ifixit.com/News/10016/warranty-void-if-removed-stickers

 

Warning-Letters-FTC-April-2018.pdf

[mdk777]

yeah, tell that to APPLE....Samsung...just about every cell phone maker.

 

"our indication is that you tampered with the product and voided the warranty"

They will send it back to you.

 

IF you have several million dollars and time on your hands to fight it in court you may win.

For the average consumer its buyer beware.

 

Again, I wish you could open these things easily and replace the battery.

The reality is that you have a good chance of damaging the several very tiny connectors that are only designed to go on...not on and off.

 

So, something that is designed to be disposable has a legitimate excuse to void the warranty when you "break it open" to work on it.

 

You can wave your letter at them and they will shrug their shoulders....

 

They spend BILLIONS yearly suing each other over patents....disputes that run for 10s of years....they have staff of full time lawyers with nothing better to do than make your life a living hell.

 

Suck it up snowflake and find a cause that is both worth your time and money to fight .....and which you have a chance of winning.    

 

[Lurking]

31 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Voiding a warranty because the owner of the device opened their product to perform a repair outside of the manufacturer is illegal. This isn't some random information...This is something coming from the FTC. I have a letter attached from the FTC to various companies, including ASUS about warranty void stickers, among other things. 

 

Some articles too:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xw7b3z/warranty-void-if-removed-stickers-sony-microsoft-nintendo-ftc-letters

https://www.ifixit.com/News/10016/warranty-void-if-removed-stickers

 

Warning-Letters-FTC-April-2018.pdf 2.6 MB · 3 downloads

Those are not PSU manufacturers. You can't derive a legal situation in one industry based on a totally different industry. 

 

I don't know the circumstances of those letters. But the situation where a computer manufacturer uses a label to prevent opening a case (like to upgrade RAM) is different from a PSU manufacturer doing the same. In case of a sticker on a case, it prevents the user from reasonable use (like replacing a drive). In case of PSU, there is no reasonable need to get inside a PSU during warranty (or ever).

 

And it is a letter sent by an agency. The companies receiving the letter could sue and win in court. Courts have the final say determining if something is illegal....  And again, totally different companies than the manufacturer in this thread. 

 

And OP isn't interested in warranty anyway since they don't want to pay for shipping anyway. Sticker damaged or not. With or without warranty sticker, that PSU isn't flying itself to the RMA center. Not wanting to pay for shipping is how this all started.

[Blue4130]

2 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Voiding a warranty because the owner of the device opened their product to perform a repair outside of the manufacturer is illegal. This isn't some random information...This is something coming from the FTC. I have a letter attached from the FTC to various companies, including ASUS about warranty void stickers, among other things. 

 

Some articles too:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xw7b3z/warranty-void-if-removed-stickers-sony-microsoft-nintendo-ftc-letters

https://www.ifixit.com/News/10016/warranty-void-if-removed-stickers

 

Warning-Letters-FTC-April-2018.pdf 2.6 MB · 3 downloads

 Voiding the warranty on something that the user opened and *replaced* an item on with a different item is not illegal and completely within the companies right.

 

It changed as soon as the OP put in a different fan. The broken seal is meaningless. Changing the stock fan is what voided his warranty rights.