DDR5 vs DDR4

[MaxTheAxe]

Price to performance is it time to go ddr5?

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/MaxTheAxe/saved/LZrJnQ

or stay ddr4?

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/MaxTheAxe/saved/sCGWcf

what would you guys choose?

[RONOTHAN##]

Given they're basically the same price, and DDR5 is just better performance than DDR4, go for the DDR5 setup. 

[mariushm]

Both need bios update to support 13th gen cpus. Don't know if either has bios flashback, too lazy to look it up

The Gigabyte board has 2 extra sata ports and 4 extra usb 2.0 ports on the io shield and uses pci-e x16 slots for the chipset slots (2 pci-e x16, both x4 electrically, the asus board has one of them physically x4)

A negative would be that it drops the 5.1 analogue, only has optical out + stereo out + mic but most people no longer use 5.1 analogue audio so up to you if that matters.

 

With a 13600K I honestly don't know how much DDR5 matters, and especially sticks with that high latency - you'd have to check benchmarks and reviews.

 

Pay 20-30$ more and choose a better SSD though.

[Ebony Falcon]

If u swapped the ddr4 to 4000mhz patriot viper 16gb and tune it it will be better for gaming 

[MaxTheAxe]

3 hours ago, mariushm said:

Both need bios update to support 13th gen cpus. Don't know if either has bios flashback, too lazy to look it up

The Gigabyte board has 2 extra sata ports and 4 extra usb 2.0 ports on the io shield and uses pci-e x16 slots for the chipset slots (2 pci-e x16, both x4 electrically, the asus board has one of them physically x4)

A negative would be that it drops the 5.1 analogue, only has optical out + stereo out + mic but most people no longer use 5.1 analogue audio so up to you if that matters.

 

With a 13600K I honestly don't know how much DDR5 matters, and especially sticks with that high latency - you'd have to check benchmarks and reviews.

 

Pay 20-30$ more and choose a better SSD though.

I don’t really care about sata since the only thing that will use sata will be a dvd-rw . On the back io of the gigabyte I count 5 usb type a port an 1 usb type c, on the Asus I count 6 type a and 2 type c. I don’t see the 4 more you are talking about on the gigabyte, maybe I am missing something. I don’t really care about pci-e, since the only thing that will go in there will be my Gpu. They have the same amount of m.2 slots…. And for audio I don’t really care since sound will be coming from usb front header port on case to headset.

 

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/yGZ9TW,RqTp99,3QXJ7P/
 

nothing can really beat the Kingston around that price range according to pcpartpicker picker, gonna try to find another comparison somewhere else. The only reason to go ddr4 I can see would maybe go with better ddr4 memory to fill the price gap like ebony falcon said???? Unless you could show me with picture what I am missing on the gigabyte board that make it better than the asus. Thanks again.

[mariushm]

Asus Prime Z690-A : 8 in total :  4 x 5gbps 3 x 10g  (one type-c) ,  1x20g (type-c)

 

Gigabyte Gaming-X DDR4 :  10 in total  - 4 x 480mbps (usb 2)  + 3 x 5g (light blue)  + 2 x 10g (red/orange)  + 1 x 20g (type-c)

 

 

As for the SSDs, imho they're all crap, but ok for playing games off them. I would not use QLC for anything important.

 

Crucial P3 Plus  : uses QLC memory (176 layer qlc), about 440 TBW endurance for the 2 TB model ...

 

This model is a bit special as it can use ALL the QLC memory in pseudo-SLC mode to speed up writes so for example a fully empty ssd will have a 550-ish GB chunk of fast writes, so you'd have a hard time noticing extremely slow speeds of QLC.

But as you fill it up, the less slc mode memory you'll have ... for example if you'll fill it up with 1800 GB of content and you have 200 GB of free disk space left, that's around 50 GB of pseudo-SLC memory - if you install a 70 GB game the game will install super fast until those 50 GB are filled and then the last 20 GB will be installed at super slow speeds, like 100 MB/s or lower.

 

Solidigm P41 Plus : uses QLC memory but previous generation 144 layer qlc, which means slightly better endurance (they claim 800 TBW for 2 TB model), has a smarter controller with 8 channels (vs 4 for the Crucial) which may also explain the extra endurance advertised.

Has a fixed 32 GB chunk of SLC cache (always present, not dynamic like Crucial) then can do an extra chunk of up to around 268 GB of pseudo-slc (so around 1 TB of free qlc memory can be converted to this much pseudo-slc)

 

Kingston NV2 : there's at least 3 versions of it. They originally made it with TLC memory which is faster and has higher endurance, then they switched it to using QLC memory (same as the chips on Solidigm SSD) ,,, They only warranty them for 3 years, and rate them at 640TBW endurance.  TLC versions have up to 370 GB of pseudo-slc cache then speed drops to around 600 MB/s , the QLC versions have up to 500 GB but then speed drops to around 250 MB/s

 

 

So specs wise, the Solidigm would be the best out the 3, but it's best out of three shit.

 

Sounds like you picked SSDs by searching for pci-e 4.0 mode ... do you think it fucking matters they're m.2 pci-e 4.0, when the max speeds are like 3.5 GB/s read, 2.8 GB/s writes ... that's not even hitting the pci-e 3.0 maximums...  The Crucial drive claims 5 GB/s read speeds ... but do you really think you'd notice 5 GB/s vs 3.8 GB/s ? No, you won't.

Here's my recommendations (in order of performance):

 

at 225$ canadian you have WD SN850x - pcp link  - : pci-e 4.0 , 7.3 GB/s reads, 6.3 GB/s writes, 21400 1200 TB endurance, around 600 GB of pseudo-slc write cache, once its full write speeds drop to around 1.9 GB/s

 

at 215$ canadian you have WD SN770 -  pcp link  - pci-e 4.0 , 5.1 GB/s read, 4.85GB/s writes, TLC, 1200 TB endurance, up to around 740 GB of pseudo-slc write cache, if that gets full speeds drop to around 550 MB/s but cached is emptied quite fast.

 

at 220$ canadian you have Samsung 970 Evo Plus - pcp link  -   3.5 GB/s read, 3.3 GB/s writes , 1200TB endurance, TLC memory, around 80 GB pseudo SLC and once that's full speeds drop to around 1.7 GB/s and recovers in a few minutes as the cache is emptied)

 

at 200$ canadian, WD SN570 2 TB  -  pcp link  - uses 112 layer TLC and has 3.5 GB/s reads and writes (better than Kingston NV2 and a bit slower than Solidigm) but has 5 years warranty and 1200 TBW endurance. It's not the best recommendation, because it has a small pseudo-SLC cache fixed at around 12 GB (you can copy something to the SSD super fast but when you hit the 12 GB threshold and the cache is full the write speeds drop to around 600 MB/s. In half a minute or so it can empty that pseudo slc cache and write speeds go back to 3.5 GB/s  again. i leave it here because it's a great drive for reading stuff from it, small cache is only annoying if you constantly copy tens of gigabytes to it.

 

The WD SN770 is probably best deal out of all, but I'd prefer even the 200$ WD SN570 over QLC based drives... but if all you want is a SSD to store games on then whatever crap QLC drive you get would be fine.

But you're looking at a $2800 system ... you can add 20-30$ to get some higher quality storage.

 

Oh yeah, I'd suggest getting a 4+ TB storage, mechanical drive, something like WD Red Plus (nas grade), or Seagate IronWolf ... good for keeping music, youtube downloads, movies, moving games you play less often or which don't benefit from SSD to it ...

 

 

 

 

[MaxTheAxe]

1 hour ago, mariushm said:

Asus Prime Z690-A : 8 in total :  4 x 5gbps 3 x 10g  (one type-c) ,  1x20g (type-c)

 

Gigabyte Gaming-X DDR4 :  10 in total  - 4 x 480mbps (usb 2)  + 3 x 5g (light blue)  + 2 x 10g (red/orange)  + 1 x 20g (type-c)

 

 

As for the SSDs, imho they're all crap, but ok for playing games off them. I would not use QLC for anything important.

 

Crucial P3 Plus  : uses QLC memory (176 layer qlc), about 440 TBW endurance for the 2 TB model ...

 

This model is a bit special as it can use ALL the QLC memory in pseudo-SLC mode to speed up writes so for example a fully empty ssd will have a 550-ish GB chunk of fast writes, so you'd have a hard time noticing extremely slow speeds of QLC.

But as you fill it up, the less slc mode memory you'll have ... for example if you'll fill it up with 1800 GB of content and you have 200 GB of free disk space left, that's around 50 GB of pseudo-SLC memory - if you install a 70 GB game the game will install super fast until those 50 GB are filled and then the last 20 GB will be installed at super slow speeds, like 100 MB/s or lower.

 

Solidigm P41 Plus : uses QLC memory but previous generation 144 layer qlc, which means slightly better endurance (they claim 800 TBW for 2 TB model), has a smarter controller with 8 channels (vs 4 for the Crucial) which may also explain the extra endurance advertised.

Has a fixed 32 GB chunk of SLC cache (always present, not dynamic like Crucial) then can do an extra chunk of up to around 268 GB of pseudo-slc (so around 1 TB of free qlc memory can be converted to this much pseudo-slc)

 

Kingston NV2 : there's at least 3 versions of it. They originally made it with TLC memory which is faster and has higher endurance, then they switched it to using QLC memory (same as the chips on Solidigm SSD) ,,, They only warranty them for 3 years, and rate them at 640TBW endurance.  TLC versions have up to 370 GB of pseudo-slc cache then speed drops to around 600 MB/s , the QLC versions have up to 500 GB but then speed drops to around 250 MB/s

 

 

So specs wise, the Solidigm would be the best out the 3, but it's best out of three shit.

 

Sounds like you picked SSDs by searching for pci-e 4.0 mode ... do you think it fucking matters they're m.2 pci-e 4.0, when the max speeds are like 3.5 GB/s read, 2.8 GB/s writes ... that's not even hitting the pci-e 3.0 maximums...  The Crucial drive claims 5 GB/s read speeds ... but do you really think you'd notice 5 GB/s vs 3.8 GB/s ? No, you won't.

Here's my recommendations (in order of performance):

 

at 225$ canadian you have WD SN850x - pcp link  - : pci-e 4.0 , 7.3 GB/s reads, 6.3 GB/s writes, 21400 TB endurance, around 600 GB of pseudo-slc write cache, once its full write speeds drop to around 1.9 GB/s

 

at 215$ canadian you have WD SN770 -  pcp link  - pci-e 4.0 , 5.1 GB/s read, 4.85GB/s writes, TLC, 1200 TB endurance, up to around 740 GB of pseudo-slc write cache, if that gets full speeds drop to around 550 MB/s but cached is emptied quite fast.

 

at 220$ canadian you have Samsung 970 Evo Plus - pcp link  -   3.5 GB/s read, 3.3 GB/s writes , 1200TB endurance, TLC memory, around 80 GB pseudo SLC and once that's full speeds drop to around 1.7 GB/s and recovers in a few minutes as the cache is emptied)

 

at 200$ canadian, WD SN570 2 TB  -  pcp link  - uses 112 layer TLC and has 3.5 GB/s reads and writes (better than Kingston NV2 and a bit slower than Solidigm) but has 5 years warranty and 1200 TBW endurance. It's not the best recommendation, because it has a small pseudo-SLC cache fixed at around 12 GB (you can copy something to the SSD super fast but when you hit the 12 GB threshold and the cache is full the write speeds drop to around 600 MB/s. In half a minute or so it can empty that pseudo slc cache and write speeds go back to 3.5 GB/s  again. i leave it here because it's a great drive for reading stuff from it, small cache is only annoying if you constantly copy tens of gigabytes to it.

 

The WD SN770 is probably best deal out of all, but I'd prefer even the 200$ WD SN570 over QLC based drives... but if all you want is a SSD to store games on then whatever crap QLC drive you get would be fine.

But you're looking at a $2800 system ... you can add 20-30$ to get some higher quality storage.

 

Oh yeah, I'd suggest getting a 4+ TB storage, mechanical drive, something like WD Red Plus (nas grade), or Seagate IronWolf ... good for keeping music, youtube downloads, movies, moving games you play less often or which don't benefit from SSD to it ...

 

 

 

 

Damn thanks, yeah didn’t see the 4 top usb ones lol dummy me. For the storage now, I didn’t know about tlc, qlc and slc, need to read a bit on those. First time i hear about that, they don’t mention it in the spec sheet or just never noticed. I don’t really want a mechanical drive because of the noise.

 

thanks a lot for your knowledge. I really appreciate it, I thought all nvme m.2 drive were pretty much the same…. And to be honest I didn’t know the maximums of pci-e 3.0. Jus thought newer gen was better. Why do they do gen 4 drives that can’t reach gen 3 max??? Kind of a waste of money no? Or is it to lure people like me? 

[MaxTheAxe]

23 hours ago, mariushm said:

The WD SN770 is probably best deal out of all, but I'd prefer even the 200$ WD SN570 over QLC based drives... but if all you want is a SSD to store games on then whatever crap QLC drive you get would be fine.

But you're looking at a $2800 system ... you can add 20-30$ to get some higher quality storage.

For the price and speed why would you choose the sn750? I mean the sn 850x is tlc too from what I read and 135$ off looks pretty good to me no???? And also I have to pay 10$ shipping because the retailer does not do free shipping. The sn850x is free shipping. So basically 212$ vs 225$. 13$ more for a way nicer drive….

[mariushm]

Where do you see SN750 anywhere in the list?

 

I listed them in the order of performance and how worth buying they are.  I just said that even the cheapest SN570 is more worth buying than ANY of your QLC based drives, due to higher endurance.

 

All the suggested SSDs are TLC based.

 

 

I don't know  where you end up buying them from, so I don't care if it's free shipping or not, and I can't make suggestions for you based on shipping costs. 

You're buying a computer so maybe you order 5 components from the same store and then you have a single small combined shipping fee, or maybe you get free shipping because the total order is above some threshold.

Also Amazon may have free shipping or very small shipping if themselves ship it (sold by amazon and fullfilled by amazon)  or the shipping costs may be higher if the item is sold by a third party company through amazon. 

PC Part Picker simply tells you the smaller price, often ignoring the shipping cost, but you could just go on Amazon page (if the item is from Amazon) and look at the list of alternate sellers for that item, it's a link somewhere on the page.  For example, PC Part Picker may list the 200$ SSD with 10$ shipping from a third party company, but you may be able to look in the list of alternate sellers and find Amazon or others which sell the SSD at 205$-210$ but with free shipping.

 

[MaxTheAxe]

Well that is what I am telling you, the 750 is 212$ with the shipping, 770 is 215 from newegg free shipping and the 850x is 225 from newegg free shipping, what I am asking is if YOU were building that computer, which drive would you choose?  I am leaning towards the 850x since I think it’s the best performance for money here but will it even be noticeable???

[mariushm]

SN750 is previous generation, and it's basically just a bit better than SN570. Just like SN570 it has a small pseudo-SLC write cache (around 36 GB for SN750, around 12 GB for SN570). SN770 has much larger pseudo-SLC write cache and it's pci-e 4.0

 

SN770 is enough, but if the price difference is so small then by all means, go with SN850x. Up to you how high you're willing to go.

 

[MaxTheAxe]

Thanks for the advices. I think I will go with the 850x for the longevity mostly for 10$ more.