Qi2 wireless charging spec to get Magsafe, higher wattage, smartwatch charging

[saltycaramel]

 

Summary

The next iteration of the Qi induction charging standard, creatively called Qi2, is going to integrate Apple’s self-aligning and self-adhering magnets (although in a new slightly different configuration), and eventually higher maximum wattage, NFC authentication, support for smaller non-smartphone devices like smartwatches. 

 

Quotes

Quote

But now, Apple’s trying something different. With the blessing of competitors, Apple is about to change the Qi wireless standard itself. It’s contributing to a new version of Qi that works much like MagSafe — magnets, authentication, and all. 

 

It’s called Qi2, and yes, it effectively means that MagSafe is coming to Android, for better or for worse. Samsung and Apple are both expected to put Qi2-certified products on the market, Wireless Power Consortium spokesperson Paul Golden tells The Verge, and he says there’s no reason to think future Qi2-certified chargers wouldn’t work with both.

 

And while I say “for better or for worse,” it mostly sounds better! Golden says the idea is to eliminate the confusion of whether chargers and phones are actually interoperable, and to ensure the coils are tightly coupled and properly aligned so they can charge at full speed — unlike how Apple currently limits today’s Qi chargers to half-speed when they’re charging an iPhone.

 

There’s no reason to think a future Qi2 charger wouldn’t work seamlessly and identically with both Android and iPhones, Golden says when I ask. That’s because Apple, a WPC “steering member” (and chair of the board of directors) is contributing essentially the same “magnetic power profile” as MagSafe to the new Qi2 standard.

 

That’s not all the WPC is working on, either! While the Qi2.0 release is largely just about adding magnets — it’s still primarily for phones, still tops out at 15 watts, still has the same foreign object detection, etc — the WPC intends to take advantage of guaranteed magnetic coupling to give us faster charging speeds, too. “When we finish with the spec for Qi2, we’ll immediately start working on a significantly higher power profile level for the next version of Qi2,” says Golden.

And after that, there’s the possibility of charging devices like smartwatches that don’t necessarily have flat charging coils. “The launch of the Qi2 standard will further expand the wireless charging market by opening the market to new accessories that wouldn’t be chargeable using current flat surface-to-flat surface devices,” reads a tantalizing line in the WPC’s press release. (Victoria, my smartwatch-reviewing colleague, can’t freaking wait.)

Okay, why did I say “for worse” four paragraphs ago if things are so rosy? There are a few wrinkles that give me pause. First, Golden confirms that the Qi2 standard strangely doesn’t have the exactsame pattern of magnets as MagSafe, and that it’s not clear what will happen with current iPhones because of that.

 

My thoughts

Apple does it again and greatly influences the future of a standard, just like they shaped the future of the web with webkit, they shaped thunderbolt/usb4 and usb-c, they shaped Matter by giving it pieces of Homekit, and so on.

 

What this means for Apple users

- cheaper magsafe accessories to charge iPhones at 15W (and more) instead of 7.5W 

- potentially magsafe as a standard feature in cars, since now it’s universal and not just an Apple thing

- potentially magsafe surfaces everywhere (airports, Starbucks, Ikea furniture, etc.)

- finally charging the Watch with the same wireless charger we use for iPhone/Airpods

- BUT it looks like we’re gonna need to buy new hardware (new Qi2-compatible iPhones), because of the new magnets configuration 

 

What this means for non-Apple users:

- getting magnetic wireless charging in their devices by default and enjoying its self-adhering and self-aligning properties, including non-charging accessories (mounts, tripods, pop-up phone holders, gaming related accessories, etc.)

 

My questions

- what about data transfer? I’d like to have high speed short range ultrawideband data transfer to make Qi2 a complete alternative to lightning/usb-c. Maybe Apple will introduce “Magsafe2” as a superset of Qi2 and also include data transfer in it? Maybe that was the original plan before the EU forced usb-c upon them?

- will the next batch of new iPhones and Apple Watches next September be already compatible with the new standard?

- is wireless charging also coming to iPads, as rumored in the past?

- if Magsafe2+Qi2 gets data transfer, can Apple release iPhones with no usb-c at all in the future and still be compliant with EU laws?

- if it does get data transfer and it does get adopted by car manufacturers, will the data channel be used for fast/reliable wired-like Carplay?

 

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/3/23538131/qi2-wireless-charging-apple-samsung

[Doobeedoo]

So can this support like 100W wireless charging though.

[HenrySalayne]

8 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

 

Summary

The next iteration of the Qi induction charging standard, creatively called Qi2, is going to integrate Apple’s self-aligning and self-adhering magnets (although in a new slightly different configuration), and eventually higher maximum wattage, NFC authentication, support for smaller non-smartphone devices like smartwatches. 

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

Apple does it again and greatly influences the future of a standard, just like they shaped the future of the web with webkit, they shaped thunderbolt/usb4 and usb-c, they shaped Matter by giving it pieces of Homekit, and so on.

 

What this means for Apple users

- cheaper magsafe accessories to charge iPhones at 15W (and more) instead of 7.5W 

- potentially magsafe as a standard feature in cars, since now it’s universal and not just an Apple thing

- potentially magsafe surfaces everywhere (airports, Starbucks, Ikea furniture, etc.)

- finally charging the Watch with the same wireless charger we use for iPhone/Airpods

- BUT it looks like we’re gonna need to buy new hardware (new Qi2-compatible iPhones), because of the new magnets configuration 

 

What this means for non-Apple users:

- getting magnetic wireless charging in their devices by default and enjoying its self-adhering and self-aligning properties, including non-charging accessories (mounts, tripods, pop-up phone holders, gaming related accessories, etc.)

 

My questions

- what about data transfer? I’d like to have high speed short range ultrawideband data transfer to make Qi2 a complete alternative to lightning/usb-c. Maybe Apple will introduce “Magsafe2” as a superset of Qi2 and also include data transfer in it? Maybe that was the original plan before the EU forced usb-c upon them?

- will the next batch of new iPhones and Apple Watches next September be already compatible with the new standard?

- is wireless charging also coming to iPads, as rumored in the past?

- if Magsafe2+Qi2 gets data transfer, can Apple release iPhones with no usb-c at all in the future and still be compliant with EU laws?

- if it does get data transfer and it does get adopted by car manufacturers, will the data channel be used for fast/reliable wired-like Carplay?

 

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/3/23538131/qi2-wireless-charging-apple-samsung

I know you like Apple very very very very very much, but could we take a more objective and focused approach with the starting post? It's getting close to misrepresenting facts.

 

Quote

[...]

WPC member, Apple^®, provided the basis for the new Qi2 standard building on its MagSafe^® technology. Apple^® and other WPC members developed the new Magnetic Power Profile, which is at the core of Qi2. Qi2’s Magnetic Power Profile will ensure that phones or other rechargeable battery-powered mobile products are perfectly aligned with charging devices, thus providing improved energy efficiency and faster charging.

[...]

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230103005082/en/New-Qi2-Standard-for-Wireless-Devices-Ensures-Enhanced-Consumer-Convenience-and-Efficiency

[saltycaramel]

17 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

I know you like Apple very very very very very much, but could we take a more objective and focused approach with the starting post? It's getting close to misrepresenting facts.

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230103005082/en/New-Qi2-Standard-for-Wireless-Devices-Ensures-Enhanced-Consumer-Convenience-and-Efficiency

And?

When the consortium itself openly says that Apple “provided the basis by building on Magsafe technology” in the press release.. 

Is me saying “greatly influences the future of a standard” a misrepresentation?

Did I also write the Verge article?

[Obioban]

I've quite been enjoying MagSafe on my phone. I have a dash mount on my cars, I have a wallet on the phone, and my bed side table has magsafe stand. For me, it took Qi from unreliable (slight misalignment) to something I use all the time.

 

I probably haven't plugged an actual cable into my phone for over a year at this point. Not actually sure I ever have

 

So, sounds good.

[LAwLz]

This sounds like good news. However, I am more interested in Qi3.0 or whatever it will be called.

The way I read this, Qi2.0 is just Qi but with some magnets in it. The higher charging speed, support for smart watches and the other cool stuff will be coming in a later version. Maybe Qi2.1.

I am also not a fan of authentication of the charger. I understand that it could be used for good, but my guess is that it will probably be used for bad. A charger company didn't pay Apple some fee? Then their 30 watt charger will be throttled to 15 watts until they pay. Or something along those lines.

[HenrySalayne]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

Did I also write the Verge article?

That's the problem. Your only source is not a news article but an opinion piece. And you added you opinion as another layer on top which completely overshot the target.

[saltycaramel]

10 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

That's the problem. Your only source is not a news article but an opinion piece. And you added you opinion as another layer on top which completely overshot the target.

 

So The Verge reporting is bad and the WPC consortium is exaggerating by name-dropping Apple and Magsafe left and right in the Qi2 press release, source: HenrySalayne. Noted it. 

 

Not sure where you’re going with this.

 

The magnetic part of the new Qi2 spec wouldn’t exist without Apple and without Magsafe, that’s a fact.

[AlTech]

Still doesn't fix one of Qi and wireless charging's biggest problems: Terrible efficiency. Approximately 60% Efficiency for wireless charging is unacceptable. And nobody's doing anything to fix it.

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Still doesn't fix one of Qi and wireless charging's biggest problems: Terrible efficiency. Approximately 60% Efficiency for wireless charging is unacceptable. And nobody's doing anything to fix it.

Unless you replace the coils with contact pins, there is no fixing physics.

Hence why wireless charging is just a neat party trick. But hey at least it tends to expose the brainwashed eco-nuts.

[LogicalDrm]

*** Thread cleaned ***

 

Some pointless bickering removed. If you don't think thread qualifies in Tech News section, report it to moderation. We make decisions on what is and is not within guidelines. Please keep discussion of quality of sources to minimum. Alternative sources can and should be posted to bring up possible issues with reporting.

 

Here, original source is fine (it's news article quoting press release with statement from consortium spokesperson and attempt to get statement from Apple). Posting whole press release as 1st party source is also fine.

[AlTech]

3 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Unless you replace the coils with contact pins, there is no fixing physics.

Hence why wireless charging is just a neat party trick. But hey at least it tends to expose the brainwashed eco-nuts.

It almost makes me wonder if the EU will require wireless charging to use contact pins/pads in the future to improve efficiency in their upcoming harmonized wireless charging bill.

 

At that point though some may argue that it's no longer wireless charging and while they won't be entirely wrong I think that has to be a future step to fixing the current wasteful efficiency of wireless charging because electricity grids can't handle mass scale wireless charging as they exist today let alone how cars and other devices in the future will try to use wireless charging.

[saltycaramel]

Wired vs induction will always be a balancing act between the advantages of each.

 

Bringing back pins/pads would mean going back to square one. They can deteriorate, get dirty/oxidated, prevent the usage of cases, limit the form factor and ingress protection of devices, etc.

 

They way forward is trying to make wireless charging more and more efficient (of course it will never be as efficient as wired), try to make batteries less susceptible to heat, try to make devices/activities more power efficient overall (some daily tasks people do on power sipping phones/tablets nowadays required a whole power hungry PC just 15 years ago).

[Obioban]

13 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Still doesn't fix one of Qi and wireless charging's biggest problems: Terrible efficiency. Approximately 60% Efficiency for wireless charging is unacceptable. And nobody's doing anything to fix it.

The better alignment with MagSafe actually does improve efficiency-- it's around 75% (at least, that's what it is from iPhone to Apple MagSafe puck).

 

Also important to remember that wired charging is also not 100% efficient, when comparing.

 

I wouldn't want to use inductive charging to charge my car (even at 75% efficiency), but for tiny batteries like watches and phones... I honestly don't care. My phone battery is what, ~15wh? Any my watch battery is ~1.3wh? Whereas my car battery is ~100,000wh. Or, for scale, my house battery is 56,000wh-- so it could charge my phone 2800 times without any recharging (of the house battery), at 75% efficiency.

 

Meanwhile a new, high end gaming PC is using 1200wh+ every hour you use it

 

Scale matters. I am generally pretty careful with power consumption (I live in a passive house certified house, which is no small standard to build your house to, and generate 100% of the power I use on site), but 75% charging efficiency for my watch and phone is... just fine.