ada lovelace NVIDIA officially announces GeForce RTX 40 Laptop GPU series, RTX 4090 mobile with 9728 CUDA Cores and 16GB GDDR6 memory

[CommanderAlex]

1 minute ago, starsmine said:

not really. 4090 means "THE BEST", and the rest of the stack falls in line. 
there is no way to put a desktop 4090 into a laptop and it be anything reasonable.

ofc you can't put a desktop 4090 in a laptop smh...

[BiG StroOnZ]

1 hour ago, CommanderAlex said:

Seems a little misleading to market a desktop RTX 4080 and call it a RTX 4090 in a laptop. 

 

Well, technically, yes. It's obviously a marketing ploy. However, it's been this way for quite a while (Laptop/Mobile SKUs not performing exactly the same as their desktop counterparts). But, it should be noted that some of the low to mid-range mobile GPU chips are getting close to performance parity with their desktop siblings, but there still is some ways to go for the higher end SKUs.

[CommanderAlex]

7 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

 

Well, technically, yes. It's obviously a marketing ploy. However, it's been this way for quite a while (Laptop/Mobile SKUs not performing exactly the same as their desktop counterparts). But, it should be noted that some of the low to mid-range mobile GPU chips are getting close to performance parity with their desktop siblings, but there still is some ways to go for the higher end SKUs.

That's the thing to bothers me as to an unsuspecting shopper that's misinformed, purchasing the RTX 4090 laptop while getting a 4080 desktop chip just appears to be wrong, in my eyes. That will always be the case with as newer architectures release and lower product stacks get on the same performance level as their desktop counterparts.

[starsmine]

30 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

That's the thing to bothers me as to an unsuspecting shopper that's misinformed, purchasing the RTX 4090 laptop while getting a 4080 desktop chip just appears to be wrong, in my eyes. That will always be the case with as newer architectures release and lower product stacks get on the same performance level as their desktop counterparts.

I have the smallest fiddle for people who buy 5000 dollar laptops, the only laptops that will have an RTX 4090 mobile, and NOT know what they are buying.
These are the top binned chips to undervolt well enough to remain stable at those clocks and power consumption levels. with the most engineering effort put in for the fewest sales.

[CommanderAlex]

30 minutes ago, starsmine said:

I have the smallest fiddle for people who buy 5000 dollar laptops, the only laptops that will have an RTX 4090 mobile, and NOT know what they are buying.
These are the top binned chips to undervolt well enough to remain stable at those clocks and power consumption levels. with the most engineering effort put in for the fewest sales.

That's the thing though as you know someone will do that. 

 

I have a friend who was searching for a laptop to use in school for CAD work and he approached me for some advice and I gave recommendations going off his budget. My friend hardly knows how to use a computer and was just looking for something that can handle the work they were looking to do. Now though (speculation I know), if they didn't have a budget and didn't need my help, they would have asked the salesman which would be best and sell them that $5,000 laptop. 

[starsmine]

10 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

That's the thing though as you know someone will do that. 

 

I have a friend who was searching for a laptop to use in school for CAD work and he approached me for some advice and I gave recommendations going off his budget. My friend hardly knows how to use a computer and was just looking for something that can handle the work they were looking to do. Now though (speculation I know), if they didn't have a budget and didn't need my help, they would have asked the salesman which would be best and sell them that $5,000 laptop. 

Schools usually have a recommendations since they know their software. Most likely he would be better off with a low to mid end quadro then a high end GPU if its cad work. I have never seen a program with heavy computer use major that did not say "here are the recommended specifications for your computer"

[BiG StroOnZ]

1 hour ago, CommanderAlex said:

That's the thing to bothers me as to an unsuspecting shopper that's misinformed, purchasing the RTX 4090 laptop while getting a 4080 desktop chip just appears to be wrong, in my eyes. That will always be the case with as newer architectures release and lower product stacks get on the same performance level as their desktop counterparts.

 

Well sadly, and I mean sadly, NVIDIA has been doing this with their mobile GPU lineup forever. Where they blur the lines between what performance you will be getting with their mobile SKU despite it having the same nomenclature as the desktop SKU. Now, I understand to the misinformed shopper, they could have the wool pulled over their eyes. It is worth mentioning as also noted above, that the laptops these 4090 and 4080 mobile GPUs are going in, are going to be $2000+. Therefore, when spending that kind of money you would expect the shopper to do their due diligence. 

 

Is it right? No, of course not. Which is why I liked when they used the "M" to denote mobile graphics, or point out that it's a Max-Q model. This gives the purchaser a better idea of what they are getting performance wise. However, as I mentioned and you understand, is lower end models with lower end Laptop GPUs perform more identical to their desktop counterparts. So the majority of people who are blindly buying a laptop, because say, it has a 3070 in it. Are getting quite close to 3070 performance. Now Ampere really helped bring performance parity with the low to midrange mobile GPUs compared to their desktop counterparts. In the past, it was much worse with performance being more than a tier down. 

 

Regardless, I understand your point that this is uber confusing for the uninitiated. But like you suppose, that is probably by design. 

[CommanderAlex]

16 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Schools usually have a recommendations since they know their software. Most likely he would be better off with a low to mid end quadro then a high end GPU if its cad work. I have never seen a program with heavy computer use major that did not say "here are the recommended specifications for your computer"

Majority of them do, or just look at the CAD's recommended hardware specifications that the software company says. But there's always a sucker born every minute and buys whatever they want without doing research.

 

4 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

Well sadly, and I mean sadly, NVIDIA has been doing this with their mobile GPU lineup forever. Where they blur the lines between what performance you will be getting with their mobile SKU despite it having the same nomenclature as the desktop SKU. Now, I understand to the misinformed shopper, they could have the wool pulled over their eyes. It is worth mentioning as also noted above, that the laptops these 4090 and 4080 mobile GPUs are going in, are going to be $2000+. Therefore, when spending that kind of money you would expect the shopper to do their due diligence. 

 

Is it right? No, of course not. Which is why I liked when they used the "M" to denote mobile graphics, or point out that it's a Max-Q model. This gives the purchaser a better idea of what they are getting performance wise. However, as I mentioned and you understand, is lower end models with lower end Laptop GPUs perform more identical to their desktop counterparts. So the majority of people who are blindly buying a laptop, because say, it has a 3070 in it. Are getting quite close to 3070 performance. Now Ampere really helped bring performance parity with the low to midrange mobile GPUs compared to their desktop counterparts. In the past, it was much worse with performance being more than a tier down. 

 

Regardless, I understand your point that this is uber confusing for the uninitiated. But like you suppose, that is probably by design. 

That's correct, for the majority of customers in the market for a laptop at that price range, they'll do their research. Those that don't care about costs and buy without doing research, and then go back to complain on reddit that XYZ is not working or at their expectations, the jokes on them for doing that.

[lostcattears]

People are talking about heat and noise/fan etc but when I said no compromise gaming, now you have basically laptop grade components that can max out nearly any screen resolution/refresh rate/fps in any game that is what I mean by no compromise gaming on a laptop.  

 

Then they talk about their 6-8 year old gaming laptop sigh...

 

 

[Kisai]

51 minutes ago, lostcattears said:

People are talking about heat and noise/fan etc but when I said no compromise gaming, now you have basically laptop grade components that can max out nearly any screen resolution/refresh rate/fps in any game that is what I mean by no compromise gaming on a laptop.  

 

Then they talk about their 6-8 year old gaming laptop sigh...

 

 

A laptop is a major compromise in noise and heat. A gaming desktop will be dead silent when it's doing "nothing", and the fans never spin up to 100% except to save itself in a poorly cooled case. At 100% fan speed the RTX 3090 Desktop is at 77 degrees full tilt. The ASUS RTX 2070 Laptop? 80 degrees at idle, 92 degrees full tilt. Keep in mind that the ROG Zephyrus is marketed as 300hz G-sync laptop as well.

 

Hell, go look at the existing version: https://rog.asus.com/laptops/rog-zephyrus/rog-zephyrus-g16-2023-series/rog-intelligent-cooling/ . You know what the Intel 9th gen+RTX 2070 model did? It opened the back of the laptop a crack when you unfolded it. Thereby letting in all the environmental dust, and amplifying the noise.

 

two year old model:

vs

current model

Take note of that second-from-the-bottom right-most image.  Now it opens from the top instead of the bottom.

 

That is how ASUS is making a desktop-tier GPU fit into a laptop, by exposing the inside of the laptop at the expense of noise. 

 

What about other manufacturers...

MSI: https://www.msi.com/Laptop/Titan-GT77-HX-13VX

Gigabyte https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Laptop/AORUS-17H--2023#kf :

Still marketing "smaller"

 

ASUS has a whole two pages talking about cooling, and the other two kind of just go "hey look we got heatpipes too", 2 fans on GB, 3 on ASUS and 4 on MSI.

 

People don't think about how much noise the laptop makes because they were not originally intending to use it as a desktop replacement. But when you use a laptop as a "desktop replacement" (always plugged into the wall) it makes substantially more noise after a few months (depending on ambient temperature of the room it's in) and maybe even sooner if the user smokes anything and/or has pets of any kind. If a user was actually using it as a "laptop" so they can use it on their lap, like in an airport or bus/ferry terminal, they're in for a rude awakening. They are too loud to use in a library, and in places where people expect to be able to sleep. Better make sure not to share any hotel rooms when travelling just to be sure.

 

[NemesisPrime_691]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

A laptop is a major compromise in noise and heat. A gaming desktop will be dead silent when it's doing "nothing", and the fans never spin up to 100% except to save itself in a poorly cooled case. At 100% fan speed the RTX 3090 Desktop is at 77 degrees full tilt. The ASUS RTX 2070 Laptop? 80 degrees at idle, 92 degrees full tilt. Keep in mind that the ROG Zephyrus is marketed as 300hz G-sync laptop as well.

 

Hell, go look at the existing version: https://rog.asus.com/laptops/rog-zephyrus/rog-zephyrus-g16-2023-series/rog-intelligent-cooling/ . You know what the Intel 9th gen+RTX 2070 model did? It opened the back of the laptop a crack when you unfolded it. Thereby letting in all the environmental dust, and amplifying the noise.

 

two year old model:

vs

current model

Take note of that second-from-the-bottom right-most image.  Now it opens from the top instead of the bottom.

 

That is how ASUS is making a desktop-tier GPU fit into a laptop, by exposing the inside of the laptop at the expense of noise. 

 

What about other manufacturers...

MSI: https://www.msi.com/Laptop/Titan-GT77-HX-13VX

Gigabyte https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Laptop/AORUS-17H--2023#kf :

Still marketing "smaller"

 

ASUS has a whole two pages talking about cooling, and the other two kind of just go "hey look we got heatpipes too", 2 fans on GB, 3 on ASUS and 4 on MSI.

 

People don't think about how much noise the laptop makes because they were not originally intending to use it as a desktop replacement. But when you use a laptop as a "desktop replacement" (always plugged into the wall) it makes substantially more noise after a few months (depending on ambient temperature of the room it's in) and maybe even sooner if the user smokes anything and/or has pets of any kind. If a user was actually using it as a "laptop" so they can use it on their lap, like in an airport or bus/ferry terminal, they're in for a rude awakening. They are too loud to use in a library, and in places where people expect to be able to sleep. Better make sure not to share any hotel rooms when travelling just to be sure.

 

Lol you still don't get @lostcattears point. They are talking how even laptop components are able to hit very good FPS at very high resolutions and hence the no compromise on the performance.  A few short years ago, this wasn't possible. The leaps with which laptop components have progressed in performance is substantial and though you could argue that they get hot, which laptop components are designed to be and it is very normal to see temperatures such as 85-90 on the CPU and around 80-85 on GPU on a laptop. 

 

You just can't keep comparing laptop temperatures vs a desktop. Comparing a desktop 3090 to a 2070 laptop in terms of temperatures at full tilt is just dumb. You can't just dismiss the space advantages the RTX 3090 desktop has. Just compare the volume of your laptop and the desktop. And if you are hitting above 80C with that RTX2070 laptop on idle, something is definitely wrong with your machine and you need to get it checked out. 

 

 

 

 

[Kisai]

41 minutes ago, NemesisPrime_691 said:

Lol you still don't get @lostcattears point. They are talking how even laptop components are able to hit very good FPS at very high resolutions and hence the no compromise on the performance. 

They have been able to do that since the "gaming laptop" monkier ever became a thing in like 2007, and laptops were still "gaming" capable before that.

 

Or do you seriously believe that people didn't play games on laptops until 2022? Because that's exactly what you are saying. Both the GTX 1050 Ti and RTX 3060 (laptop) parts are near the top of the Steam Hardware survey.

 

All that has changed in the last few years is nvidia not giving a care about TDP, which has required noisier cooling with negative experiences. What is the point of selling a laptop with a RTX 4080 and a "Dolby TrueHD" Audio system that you can't even hear.

 

[starsmine]

59 minutes ago, NemesisPrime_691 said:

Lol you still don't get @lostcattears point. They are talking how even laptop components are able to hit very good FPS at very high resolutions and hence the no compromise on the performance.  A few short years ago, this wasn't possible. The leaps with which laptop components have progressed in performance is substantial and though you could argue that they get hot, which laptop components are designed to be and it is very normal to see temperatures such as 85-90 on the CPU and around 80-85 on GPU on a laptop. 

 

You just can't keep comparing laptop temperatures vs a desktop. Comparing a desktop 3090 to a 2070 laptop in terms of temperatures at full tilt is just dumb. You can't just dismiss the space advantages the RTX 3090 desktop has. Just compare the volume of your laptop and the desktop. And if you are hitting above 80C with that RTX2070 laptop on idle, something is definitely wrong with your machine and you need to get it checked out. 

 

 

 

 

You know, people have been putting full fat desktop parts into laptops for decades. so if you don't think heat and audio are not a compromise, then laptops have NEVER been compromised.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, NemesisPrime_691 said:

d hence the no compromise on the performance.

No compromise other than the performance attainable with a desktop GPU, the silence/noise possible of a desktop GPU, serviceability and transferability of the desktop GPU.

 

Realistically the error in the statement is just saying no compromise, there is of course compromise. Heck there are compromises on the desktop platforms too.

 

If there were no compromises then the performance of a RTX 4090 mobile would be identical to the RTX 4090 desktop, but it isn't so is a performance compromise.

 

This doesn't take away from the point that laptops are capable of giving highly enjoyable and performant gaming experiences, the hang-up is just on the usage of "no compromise".

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

This doesn't take away from the point that laptops are capable of giving highly enjoyable and performant gaming experiences, the hang-up is just on the usage of "no compromise".

 

Maybe if you're the only person who has to hear it, or... y'know use it with the window open otherwise you'll be sweating every time you use it.

 

I say this in jest, but if the laptop requires a 240w power brick, OR MORE, then you've bought a space heater, not a laptop.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

Maybe if you're the only person who has to hear it, or... y'know use it with the window open otherwise you'll be sweating every time you use it.

 

I say this in jest, but if the laptop requires a 240w power brick, OR MORE, then you've bought a space heater, not a laptop.

Well you don't have to get such a high end one, it's not like mid range ones can't play games very well. Current day laptops can run games much better than what many people have as desktops currently.

[Supreme Calamitas]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:05 PM, Kisai said:

My personal laptops, I cleaned the the fans frequently. That does not solve the noise problem after a few months.

Have you tried replacing the paste? Like actually? Answer truthfully 
 

On 1/4/2023 at 4:05 PM, Kisai said:

Am I really unlucky 60 times in a row? No, I don't think so. I've owned 3 laptops

 

60 isn’t synonymous with 3 

 

On 1/4/2023 at 4:05 PM, Kisai said:

My personal laptops, I cleaned the the fans frequently. That does not solve the noise problem after a few months.

I’m struggling to think of anything that would increase fan noise after prolonged usage besides dirty fans and the paste going to shitz, so which laptop do you use now? Should we all just get MacBooks in your opinion?