External radiator on outside of house, or rack mount PC in server rack

[Deuteronomy93]

Hi All

 

Before moving into our new and renovated home, I had planned to build a desk PC but this plan won't work as well as I would want it to.

 

Beijing being Beijing, space is so expensive so getting anything extra is a big bonus.

 

External radiator:

• The original idea was to have a passively cooled PC using quite a few radiators, whereas now I'm thinking of getting a larger radiator(s) for a car etc and putting this on the outside of the house and wall mounting the PC.
• The new place is a bit strangely laid out, we occupy the ground and -1 floors, below us are storage rooms and there's a void on either side of the house (including next to my office) where a skylight lets light into the windows of rooms like my office and the storage room below.
• That void stays pretty cool in summer (Beijing is in the 30s °C, this must be in the teens), and quite cold in winter (often in the - figures, can get below -10°C probably a similar temperature despite being underground).
• I'm thinking that there will probably be 2 major considerations, pressure and the risk of freezing.
  • Pressure I can overcome with pumps and staying with serial flow, but interested if anyone has experience with getting the pressure to run through a large radiator like a car.
  • With the freezing risk, I can go with antifreeze as coolant but it looks like people have stated it needs to be diluted quite substantially. Does anyone have knowledge on this?
    • This PC also won't be on all of the time, so I am concerned about it ptoentially freezing if the concentration is not good enough.

Rack mounting

• The alternative would be to rack mount it.
• I have a 42U rack about 3 meters away from my office.
  • The office has 2 ethernet jacks using CAT7 currently wired into a USW Pro 48+UDM Pro.
    • I wouldn't mind replacing the wire in 1 of these with another that could enable a more distant setup.
  • It also wouldn't be out of the question to run a wire up through the ceiling and to the rack.
    • The length of this cable would probably need to be at least 11/12m.
• By the time I get around to this, or just coincide with an upgrade, my current CPU/MOBO will likely be replaced.
• Considering these 2 may be replaced, what would your thoughts on this be?
  • My requirements currently (and likely stay this way for a while) are:
    • 4k HDR 144hz display with 1ms refresh rate.
    • 2 additional portrait 1080p monitors.
    • USB: keypad, keyboard, mouse, webcam, DAC and another couple of ports for adhoc use.
• Would TB4 be the way to go or is there something else that's advisable? Especially given that there's already CAT 7 to play with.
  • I'll rewatch some of Linus' house videos to refresh my memory on what he's doing but I think he was using a long corning TB cable that isn't easy to get your hands on.
  • I don't mind going slightly experimental but it would be good to have a proof of concept/example before proceeding.
  • I've used TB3 with a Caldigit dock as part of a previous setup and was happy with that.

 

Any thoughts or references would be greatly appreciated!

 

Many thanks

[jaslion]

With cold fluids comes condensation too which is a major issue.

 

It is why outside and inside loops are NOT supposed to mix fluids but use a heat exchanger that equalizes temps. This can litererallt be as simple as 2 rads in a big bin of water with a pump cycling it. This will make sure that things dont get too cold for condensation to happen.

 

Of course this once again introduces a large item.

 

Also you can literally use pure antifreeze in a loop + biocide it dont matter just use a proper legit d5 pump or better fluid pump (not for pc but plumbing).

 

 

If going rack use 3 display cables + usb (active) dont rely on thunderbolt its a mess on desktop and a lot dont even carry display signal + its gonna cost 1000s extra to do it well compared to like 2-300 for 4 cables. (3 if you do usb over ethernet)

[Blue4130]

1 hour ago, Deuteronomy93 said:

Hi All

 

Before moving into our new and renovated home, I had planned to build a desk PC but this plan won't work as well as I would want it to.

 

Beijing being Beijing, space is so expensive so getting anything extra is a big bonus.

 

External radiator:

• The original idea was to have a passively cooled PC using quite a few radiators, whereas now I'm thinking of getting a larger radiator(s) for a car etc and putting this on the outside of the house and wall mounting the PC.
• The new place is a bit strangely laid out, we occupy the ground and -1 floors, below us are storage rooms and there's a void on either side of the house (including next to my office) where a skylight lets light into the windows of rooms like my office and the storage room below.
• That void stays pretty cool in summer (Beijing is in the 30s °C, this must be in the teens), and quite cold in winter (often in the - figures, can get below -10°C probably a similar temperature despite being underground).
• I'm thinking that there will probably be 2 major considerations, pressure and the risk of freezing.
  • Pressure I can overcome with pumps and staying with serial flow, but interested if anyone has experience with getting the pressure to run through a large radiator like a car.
  • With the freezing risk, I can go with antifreeze as coolant but it looks like people have stated it needs to be diluted quite substantially. Does anyone have knowledge on this?
    • This PC also won't be on all of the time, so I am concerned about it ptoentially freezing if the concentration is not good enough.

 

 

Any thoughts or references would be greatly appreciated!

 

Many thanks

https://item.jd.com/10043177802572.html

 

When I lived in Saskatewan, I ghetto cooled a loop as a lark one cold winter weekend. Junk yard rad outside, car antifreeze. It can be done, but I would not do it long term or when the computer is left unattended.

[Deuteronomy93]

On 11/29/2022 at 6:49 PM, jaslion said:

With cold fluids comes condensation too which is a major issue.

 

It is why outside and inside loops are NOT supposed to mix fluids but use a heat exchanger that equalizes temps. This can litererallt be as simple as 2 rads in a big bin of water with a pump cycling it. This will make sure that things dont get too cold for condensation to happen.

 

Of course this once again introduces a large item.

 

Also you can literally use pure antifreeze in a loop + biocide it dont matter just use a proper legit d5 pump or better fluid pump (not for pc but plumbing).

 

 

If going rack use 3 display cables + usb (active) dont rely on thunderbolt its a mess on desktop and a lot dont even carry display signal + its gonna cost 1000s extra to do it well compared to like 2-300 for 4 cables. (3 if you do usb over ethernet)

Thanks for your feedback.

 

Yeah you're right about the condensation and need for a heat exchanger, thanks for clarifying.

 

Regarding TB:

• It'd cost me RMB5,368.60 for a long cable (Corning featured in LTT videos) as well as a MOBO that supports it.
  • Obviously not buying the full MOBO just for TB but could pay a premium to have it.
  • I already have a TS3+ that I used with my laptop.
• By the time I get around to it, this may not be that feasible due to USB4 becoming more of a thing and certain compatability issues but I'd have to rereview the video that came out recently. Possibly there would be a new Corning cable that would support it.
• Can I ask what issues you've run into with TB?
  • My personal experience has been really good but yes it has solely been on a laptop.

Regarding multiple cables:

• Definitely an option.
• It is the messiest/would require the most work to achieve cleanly, ideally running some more conduit around but this wouldn't have to go far.
• I looked up the option to run USB over ethernet but obviously this wouldn't also carry the display signal too. It would cut down on the cables required but I'd need to find the right product for me.
  • I'd probably also look up options for daisy chaining the DP but not sure how well this would work given the required cable length and combined amount of data.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[jaslion]

Thunderbolt on desktop doesnt carry video signals unless its input from a gpu.

 

Some thunderbolt cards for certain boards have q video in for 1 or 2 ports and then can send a signal but this is quite underdeveloped and mixed in stability.

 

Its why Linus who was all about that tb3 life went back to individual cables it just wasnt stable on desktop as there isnt really a need for it.

 

Diasy chain is possible IF you have a device for it. Desktop gpus dont normallt support it because they again just expect a cable for each screen as is normal. In a laptop port space is more limites so they set it up differently there.

[Deuteronomy93]

13 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Thunderbolt on desktop doesnt carry video signals unless its input from a gpu.

 

Some thunderbolt cards for certain boards have q video in for 1 or 2 ports and then can send a signal but this is quite underdeveloped and mixed in stability.

 

Its why Linus who was all about that tb3 life went back to individual cables it just wasnt stable on desktop as there isnt really a need for it.

 

Diasy chain is possible IF you have a device for it. Desktop gpus dont normallt support it because they again just expect a cable for each screen as is normal. In a laptop port space is more limites so they set it up differently there.

Fair, I was wanting to go for one of the x570 Aqua boards but they sold out by the time I was ready to buy. I know for that and others, yes I'd need to run a DP cable from the GPU to the MOBO. Honestly I don't see that as a dealbreaker but stability sure is.

 

Maybe my experience using it on a laptop was indeed the ideal scenario as my stability was perfect.

 

Daisy isn't my ideal scenario, I try to keep my signals as as separate as possible but yes it's a thought I had that would make things easier, but could have an impact on performance etc down the line.

 

I'll keep reviewing things in the meantime!

[jaslion]

47 minutes ago, Deuteronomy93 said:

Fair, I was wanting to go for one of the x570 Aqua boards but they sold out by the time I was ready to buy. I know for that and others, yes I'd need to run a DP cable from the GPU to the MOBO. Honestly I don't see that as a dealbreaker but stability sure is.

 

Maybe my experience using it on a laptop was indeed the ideal scenario as my stability was perfect.

 

Daisy isn't my ideal scenario, I try to keep my signals as as separate as possible but yes it's a thought I had that would make things easier, but could have an impact on performance etc down the line.

 

I'll keep reviewing things in the meantime!

I mean if you would be running a dp cable alrrady for each screen then thundrrbolt never really mattered. As it would have been just a usb cable then basically.

 

Going 1 usb and then the needed display cables will be the best solution

[NF-A12x25]

Honestly I would just get a small form factor PC and skip the other stuff. Build in a nice little case like the Meshroom S, you can fit a 280mm rad in there if you use an ITX board, and you can still use an atx PSU.

[Deuteronomy93]

On 12/1/2022 at 8:24 PM, jaslion said:

I mean if you would be running a dp cable alrrady for each screen then thundrrbolt never really mattered. As it would have been just a usb cable then basically.

 

Going 1 usb and then the needed display cables will be the best solution

It would be either/or, not both. Maybe USB over ethernet rather than running a line however.

[Deuteronomy93]

On 12/1/2022 at 8:37 PM, NF-A12x25 said:

Honestly I would just get a small form factor PC and skip the other stuff. Build in a nice little case like the Meshroom S, you can fit a 280mm rad in there if you use an ITX board, and you can still use an atx PSU.

I already have a near silent full ATX build (list in my profile) using 3x360mm rads etc. Whilst space is indeed something I want to maximise, it does fit in my office. The dream is to remove all the noise and heat though.

 

I didn't specifically mention in this thread but removing coil whine would be ideal as that can often be the loudest part of my setup.

 

Although I've never gone with an ITX build and wouldn't for my main build until I can achieve the silence and thermal levels I want without even slightly inhibiting performance, they are cool and would use one. I'd be more tempted to go with one for HTPC etc.