iPhone 14 has issue where it calls 911 on rollercoasters

[Sauron]

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

The problem is which is it a problem for. Is it a problem for the owner of the phone, or the emergency services more? Because I'd say the problem is the wasted EMT resources than the phone owner.

Exactly, I don't think the lady here was any more than mildly inconvenienced - I'm worried about the potential constant spam calls to emergency services because of an overly sensitive shock detector or whatever other sensor is used this way next.

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

Cars do that, but you have to turn it on, and only cars that have a factory radio with a bluetooth "carkit" mode's do this. If you have an aftermarket radio, of course it won't.

Some cars have a builtin sim card for emergency calls and I don't think that functionality is lost even with an aftermarked radio, or at least it would be technically possible for it not to be. Many ensurance companies also provide you with their own additional kit that does this. Cars hitting something hard enough to trigger the airbag is a much clearer indicator of a car accident...

 

Also as others pointed out this is now a requirement in the EU.

9 hours ago, PocketNerd said:

Considering they clearly didn't think about or test for it? Yes.

An edge case is a rare event that combines a series of extreme circumstances and could hardly be foreseen, just forgetting about something is not an excuse. Further I'm not convinced they didn't think about it, I think they just figured it was too hard to filter out and they'd just rather push the feature out so they can market it.

[PocketNerd]

12 hours ago, Sauron said:

An edge case is a rare event that combines a series of extreme circumstances and could hardly be foreseen, just forgetting about something is not an excuse. Further I'm not convinced they didn't think about it, I think they just figured it was too hard to filter out and they'd just rather push the feature out so they can market it.

Ideally it'd be rare, yes, but it's still a case that goes beyond what was accounted for. It'd be different if a developer said "This is not what the system is designed to handle". Though I agree that they SHOULD have thought of it and taken care of it, cause it really shouldn't be considered an edge case if one is using common sense.

[Senzelian]

Honestly, that's hilarious. I love the idea of someone getting off a roller coaster only to suddenly notice someone's voice screaming out of their pocket: "Hello? Are you okay? Where are you? What's the emergency? Hello?"

 

bUt iPhOnEs jUsT wOrK. ThEy nEvEr hAvE iSsUeS.

[Just that Mario]

23 hours ago, PocketNerd said:

Ideally it'd be rare, yes, but it's still a case that goes beyond what was accounted for. It'd be different if a developer said "This is not what the system is designed to handle". Though I agree that they SHOULD have thought of it and taken care of it, cause it really shouldn't be considered an edge case if one is using common sense.

Extreme rollercoaster ride is not something you'd think about when designing such system. It's about same as you wont account for someone launching their ass off using an airbag nor someone taking off in a fighter jet.

 

[Tams]

Bumping this due to the skiing issues.

 

And you can't really afford to geofence a ski resort, as they are places where there are always emergency incidents. 

 

I suppose you could still have a computer triage all calls from Apple devices, but that would still require a human to go through them to avoid missing any (people won't take kindly to a computer system missing a genuine call because an 'AI' deemed it to be a false alarm).  And if that is the case, then Apple (and other companies that offer similar services, like Garmin) should foot the entire bill for it, including the human resources necessary.

 

Of course, I don't foresee that happening.  Too much 'go fast and break things' and tech bro culture in Silicon Valley. 

[mr moose]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:34 AM, Just that Mario said:

Extreme rollercoaster ride is not something you'd think about when designing such system. It's about same as you wont account for someone launching their ass off using an airbag nor someone taking off in a fighter jet.

 

It should have been,  if you re going to make half the mobile phones in the US automatically call 911 based on sensor inputs then you damned well need to consider all that.    911 calls are not a novelty or trivial thing to make peoples lives better like using GPS to recommend pizza houses or reading your emails to automate calendar events.  It's dialing emergency services without user instigation and that means that the developers of that feature need to be 100% on top of their game.  

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Tams said:

Bumping this due to the skiing issues.

 

And you can't really afford to geofence a ski resort, as they are places where there are always emergency incidents. 

 

I suppose you could still have a computer triage all calls from Apple devices, but that would still require a human to go through them to avoid missing any (people won't take kindly to a computer system missing a genuine call because an 'AI' deemed it to be a false alarm).  And if that is the case, then Apple (and other companies that offer similar services, like Garmin) should foot the entire bill for it, including the human resources necessary.

 

Of course, I don't foresee that happening.  Too much 'go fast and break things' and tech bro culture in Silicon Valley. 

Please don't bump threads unless you're actually adding new information to the original topic.

 

A Ski resort already has it's own 911 system. Whistler-Blackcomb, which is one of the local Ski Resorts, has it's own RCMP and Fire services. Ski-resorts are a special case of needing specialized search and rescue crews that a typical City does not have: https://www.whistler.com/blog/post/2022/01/20/adventuresmart-backcountry-winter/

Quote

Whistler Search and Rescue (WSAR) respond to around 75+ incidents each winter. The three main reasons people call for help during the winter in British Columbia are when they are lost or disorientated, injured or done something that’s exceeded their abilities.

...

Who and When Should You Call in an Emergency?

If you need help in the mountains and have cell reception, your FIRST ACTION should be to call 911 – let authorities know you’re in need of rescue. The 911 operator will dispatch Whistler RCMP and RCMP will request Whistler Search and Rescue.

An extreme edge case would in fact, not be skiing itself but an avalanche. This is when a large amount of snow collapses, and usually takes out skiiers, snowboarders, snowmobilers, etc , and in that specific case, auto-calling 911 is acceptable. However if you really are in "back country" (eg unmarked trails) chances are you are also nowhere near cellular coverage as well. Cell phone range outside of a city tends to be a crapshoot.

 

Most cellular service at Whistler here, is limited to the bottom of the ski hills, with one or two cell sites at the peak (denoted by the peak2peak gondola) If you go down the backside of mountain, you're on your own, good luck getting a cell signal if you're buried under 6' of snow.

 

So going back to my original suggestion which you appear to be replying to.

 

If you geofence an amusement park because you know 100% of the 911-autodials are going to be false, then that is the most logical way to handle it. Manual 911 only within the park without being overridden. It can be as simple as popping up a message like with the "don't use your phone while driving", where it goes "automatic emergency calling not available here." if it can otherwise still call. If you go skiing and launch yourself down a hill (which I have done), guess what, the ski patrol will find you within a few minutes while you writhe in pain and can't coherently call 911 anyway. If you override the geofence disable, you would instead get a message akin to "Do not bring phone on amusement park rides while emergency autodial is active." Cause I'm sure there are parents who won't go on the rides with their kids.

 

Speaking of ways of accidently calling 911. So on the iPhone the same way you turn the phone off will also imitate emergency calls. My phone the other day said it had initiated emergency SoS and I don't recall it doing so, no phone calls were received, but also no fire/police arrived at the building either. The firehall is literately across the street. So what most likely caused that? The iPhone case was worn out, right on the buttons that would activate it.  My best guess is that it the buttons were nearly flat and because that is also where I hold the phone, it likely got pressed repeatedly when I moved it from the pocket to the desk.

 

Now consider the difference between "accidental" calling 911 that way versus "the phone called 911 because the accelerometers detected a crash". In the former case, there is a visual indicator that it's going to call, which I may or may not recall seeing. But certainly if I were in a panic, I would not wait for a confirmation message. In the latter case, the phone saying it's calling emergency services because I might have dropped the phone and it tumbled down a flight of stairs before I got to it, would be a problem, and could conceivably wait for 911 to answer and tell them "nope, iphone fell down the stairs", IF there is an indication the screen saying it has done so. But if you accidently call it and the screen does not remain lit, you have no idea it's done so. Likewise, if you do drop the phone, or are in some kind of accident, it's completely possible that the phone has been damaged or even ejected from your reach, and you simply have no way of responding to a 911 operator. 

 

The status quo is manual 911, and geofencing it would not disable the ability to call 911 entirely, only the accelerometer-driven auto-call.