2 years later, I still don't understand the inverted fan on the 3090 and 3080 FE cards

[Real_Smoky]

Seeing the new 4090 card made me remember something. Can somebody explain to me why the fan is inverted?

I understand that the fan pulls air in instead of blowing it out, so the air movement is actually the same as on a normal 3070 card. So why design a special fan that will be extremely hard to replace should it ever give out? And if it is somehow a superior design, why don't the 3070 and 3060 FE cards have such inverted fan as well?

 

[Bombastinator]

24 minutes ago, Real_Smoky said:

Seeing the new 4090 card made me remember something. Can somebody explain to me why the fan is inverted?

I understand that the fan pulls air in instead of blowing it out, so the air movement is actually the same as on a normal 3070 card. So why design a special fan that will be extremely hard to replace should it ever give out? And if it is somehow a superior design, why don't the 3070 and 3060 FE cards have such inverted fan as well?

 

You answered you own question, though “Why design a special fan that will be extremely hard to replace” with “ ..a special fan that will be extremely expensive to replace and that only the manufacturer will make”   It doesn’t t cost any more than any other fan to make, but it’s the only way to make the thing work so charging double for them should be easy.   And unlike previous systems you can’t just take an old case fan and zip tie it on like is possible for everything else.  Perhaps I am in poor shape to answer questions.  I just spent the last two hours fighting with one of those stupid plastic cooler attachment pins.  They redesign the cooler but leave THOSE horrific things on there?!  I actually yelled at the cat.  Makes a body want to go all sandy hook in the intel offices or something.  I wonder if it’s those pins that keep AMD and the entire aftermarket cooler industry in business.  I recently aloud compared the design of those things to Donald Trump’s decision to lie to america about COVID.  I think it was immediately after the 3rd or 4th time I hurt my thumb on one of them.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Real_Smoky]

15 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

You answered you own question, though “Why design a special fan that will be extremely hard to replace” with “ ..a special fan that will be extremely expensive to replace and that only the manufacturer will make”   It doesn’t t cost any more than any other fan to make, but it’s the only way to make the thing work so charging double for them should be easy.   And unlike previous systems you can’t just take an old case fan and zip tie it on like is possible for everything else.  Perhaps I am in poor shape to answer questions.  I just spent the last two hours fighting with one of those stupid plastic cooler attachment pins.  They redesign the cooler but leave THOSE horrific things on there?!  I actually yelled at the cat.  Makes a body want to go all sandy hook in the intel offices or something.  I wonder if it’s those pins that keep AMD and the entire aftermarket cooler industry in business.  I recently aloud compared the design of those things to Donald Trump’s decision to lie to america about COVID.  I think it was immediately after the 3rd or 4th time I hurt my thumb on one of them.

You're talking about Intel stock coolers?

I find them very convenient when they are new. I have come to the conclusion that people don't know how to properly install them and that they are confused about the arrow markings on them. I am not saying that this is the case with you, but just in case, watch the tutorial by Linus Tech Tips on how to install them. And I specifically mean their tutorial because I saw tutorials in the past which demonstrate the exactly opposite and wrong method. People install them in the "uninstall" position and then turn the arrow thingies. While instead, you are supposed to turn them the opposite direction of the arrow into the "install" position, then press on the arrow thingies and they stay in place. You turn in the direction of the arrow to uninstall them. 

Ofc, the stock cooler is EXTREMELY inconvenient when they are used. Getting the plastic clips into position is nearly impossible. But when the cooler is new, installing it is fairly straight forward. 

 

[Origami Cactus]

41 minutes ago, Real_Smoky said:

Seeing the new 4090 card made me remember something. Can somebody explain to me why the fan is inverted?

I understand that the fan pulls air in instead of blowing it out, so the air movement is actually the same as on a normal 3070 card. So why design a special fan that will be extremely hard to replace should it ever give out? And if it is somehow a superior design, why don't the 3070 and 3060 FE cards have such inverted fan as well?

 

It is the same direction as a 3070, but the air movement is a bit different, as the air gets pulled straight throught the card itself. There is a bit of a difference between push and pull type of air movement.

The 3070 and 3060 don't have it because money, and a bit because of exclusivity. It is a really cool design, so nvidia wants to keep it for their high end cards only.

Games nexus made a whole video about the cooler design, might be worth checking out if you are interesed in it.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Real_Smoky said:

You're talking about Intel stock coolers?

I find them very convenient when they are new. I have come to the conclusion that people don't know how to properly install them and that they are confused about the arrow markings on them. I am not saying that this is the case with you, but just in case, watch the tutorial by Linus Tech Tips on how to install them. And I specifically mean their tutorial because I saw tutorials in the past which demonstrate the exactly opposite and wrong method. People install them in the "uninstall" position and then turn the arrow thingies. While instead, you are supposed to turn them the opposite direction of the arrow into the "install" position, then press on the arrow thingies and they stay in place. You turn in the direction of the arrow to uninstall them. 

Ofc, the stock cooler is EXTREMELY inconvenient when they are used. Getting the plastic clips into position is nearly impossible. But when the cooler is new, installing it is fairly straight forward. 

 

This one was brand new. It wouldn’t latch though, and the inner pin that locks the thing in place wouldn’t move either.  They redesigned the coolers and made the pins different, and admittedly much better (less bad?) but still incredibly annoying.  The arrows are gone.  Instead there is a security type flathead slot on the top.  No more arrows.  The next thing I did after abandoning that project (again) was watch a video which talked about how apple refuses to learn and keeps on doing the same dumb thing.  The irony was extra special. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

How is it inverted exactly?  Is it actually a different fan?  This seems no different to me as what we've already been doing with water cooling and case cooling, same fan, just either in push or pull configuration.

 

The benefits (in theory) to a pull configuration on GPUs is that it ensures as much air is being moved from below to above the card, to more easily exhaust out of the case.  A push configuration doesn't do this, as the air will hit lots of a points where it bounces back and is recycled/gets stuck on the wrong side of the card.

In reality as AIB cards cool better than the NVIDIA models, this doesn't seem to really make any functional difference.  However it may allow them to use cheaper fans and of course it does look nicer in a windowed case.

Also notice how some AIB 40x0 cards are using a push-pull configuration, it will be interesting to see if that delivers the benefit I described, I've never found it made enough difference to offset the increase in noise level on tower coolers for that configuration.

[Real_Smoky]

3 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

How is it inverted exactly?  Is it actually a different fan?  This seems no different to me as what we've already been doing with water cooling and case cooling, same fan, just either in push or pull configuration.

 

The benefits (in theory) to a pull configuration on GPUs is that it ensures as much air is being moved from below to above the card, to more easily exhaust out of the case.  A push configuration doesn't do this, as the air will hit lots of a points where it bounces back and is recycled/gets stuck on the wrong side of the card.

In reality as AIB cards cool better than the NVIDIA models, this doesn't seem to really make any functional difference.  However it may allow them to use cheaper fans and of course it does look nicer in a windowed case.

Also notice how some AIB 40x0 cards are using a push-pull configuration, it will be interesting to see if that delivers the benefit I described, I've never found it made enough difference to offset the increase in noise level on tower coolers for that configuration.

The fan is in reverse. It pulls air, it doesn't push. If it were normal, it would push air into the bottom of the case which would be stupid. 

The 3070 FE pushes air through the fins while the 3080 pulls air through the fins, but the air goes into the pretty much same direction.

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

58 minutes ago, Real_Smoky said:

The fan is in reverse. It pulls air, it doesn't push. If it were normal, it would push air into the bottom of the case which would be stupid. 

The 3070 FE pushes air through the fins while the 3080 pulls air through the fins, but the air goes into the pretty much same direction.

Ah I see what you mean, they didn't show this on the renders on the website.

 

I think the reason is due to how the fan mounts into the heatsink, the mounting brackets are only on one side so it had to be reversed.

[Bombastinator]

56 minutes ago, Real_Smoky said:

The fan is in reverse. It pulls air, it doesn't push. If it were normal, it would push air into the bottom of the case which would be stupid. 

The 3070 FE pushes air through the fins while the 3080 pulls air through the fins, but the air goes into the pretty much same direction.

 

So do you mean a fan that spins backwards? Or a fan that has fins that are angled in the opposite direction, or both? 

[Alex Atkin UK]

7 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So do you mean a fan that spins backwards? Or a fan that has fins that are angled in the opposite direction, or both? 

The same way some RGB fans only have the LEDs on one side so they have different models for push and pull configurations.

 

eg

 

Its direction air is flowing, in a case fan its usually towards the sticker side like the right pic, but the second fan on the FE is like the left (though I don't think that pic is of a fan actually blowing that way as the blades are wrong, its just an example).