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Fraud Pentesting?

BuckGup
By BuckGup
in General Discussion
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Do you think a job in fraud analysis exists where a company would contract you and give specific guidelines and the resources to accompany it, then ask for a report on how you would commit fraud? I'm not sure if this exists but it's like pentesting but for fraud so it's a broader scope. Since the context will change every-time you might use things like eDiscovery, social engineering, and physical/cyber security pen-testing. But it's not only these things so I'm not really sure what to call it. Thanks

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Just keeping this here as a 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That'd be a job for a cyber security specialist, similar to an LPO at a store. Usually it's contracted out to large cyber security companies rather than individuals.

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10 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

That'd be a job for a cyber security specialist, similar to an LPO at a store. Usually it's contracted out to large cyber security companies rather than individuals.

I'm not sure if it's the same though. For example a cyber security specialist would inform a company about a security vulnerability in their inventory system. A fraud analyst would inform them how they can steal from the inventory system. 

 

The inventory system might be 100% cyber secure but an unknown factor/human control in the operation of the inventory system allows fraud. It's really hard to directly outline what I am thinking the person would do as it would change for every case but it uses the tools that span cyber security, social engineering, and pen-testing. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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13 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I'm not sure if it's the same though. For example a cyber security specialist would inform a company about a security vulnerability in their inventory system. A fraud analyst would inform them how they can steal from the inventory system. 

 

The inventory system might be 100% cyber secure but an unknown factor/human control in the operation of the inventory system allows fraud. It's really hard to directly outline what I am thinking the person would do as it would change for every case but it uses the tools that span cyber security, social engineering, and pen-testing. 

Personally most jobs I have had do security checks at some point where they send out fake fraud emails and try and see who in the company falls for it and tell them how they could identify fraud emails in the future. Also they do other security training as well. All of this is mostly done by the IT department who is responsible for network security. Not sure if this is the same as what you are talking about though. 

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16 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Personally most jobs I have had do security checks at some point where they send out fake fraud emails and try and see who in the company falls for it and tell them how they could identify fraud emails in the future. Also they do other security training as well. All of this is mostly done by the IT department who is responsible for network security. Not sure if this is the same as what you are talking about though. 

That's internal cyber security with phishing campaigns on employees. I'm talking about fraud, which could utilize cyber security components but not limited to. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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This would probably fall under a companies legal department, who would probably never run a scenario on this, but probably should. In reality, it would still probably be the cyber team that factors this scenario into their training and typical regiment.

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2 hours ago, BuckGup said:

That's internal cyber security with phishing campaigns on employees. I'm talking about fraud, which could utilize cyber security components but not limited to. 

I think with that level of speciality, you'd end up like my uncle who has his specialty in large scale software onboarding for Microsoft systems where it's a 6 month contract that you are constantly chasing the next contract until you reach 55 and are deemed too old to be good at it anymore and a technical Luddite. 

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6 hours ago, BuckGup said:

fraud

Security specialist for sure.  There is so much fraud nowadays that it's broken up into many disciplines and shoved onto various departments depending on company size.  As @BiotechBen and @DavidKalinowski said, legal departments and/or 3rd party legal orgs. 

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10 hours ago, BuckGup said:

I'm not sure if it's the same though. For example a cyber security specialist would inform a company about a security vulnerability in their inventory system. A fraud analyst would inform them how they can steal from the inventory system. 

 

A security specialist would do a real world penetration test as well, if it's part of their contract.  Most of those things are just contract based, and most companies don't want to fork over the money to properly test it.

 

In itself, getting a job at a company to do that will have to be a company that contracts out to other companies...otherwise it's most likely people will realize it's you and you effectively lose your ability to properly access vulnerabilities.

 

There are at the very least companies that do do this.  They get hired to "steal" a target, and given specifics of what they are allowed to do (e.g. they might know they could destroy a lock, so in that case they use a key or pick it).  They might be allowed to install key-loggers (without detection), to gain access to the system...etc.  They might even be introduced as a new employee, or a friend of a boss etc in order to initially place them in the system as well...it would all depend on what scenario it is really.

 

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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9 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

There are at the very least companies that do do this.  They get hired to "steal" a target, and given specifics of what they are allowed to do (e.g. they might know they could destroy a lock, so in that case they use a key or pick it).  They might be allowed to install key-loggers (without detection), to gain access to the system...etc.  They might even be introduced as a new employee, or a friend of a boss etc in order to initially place them in the system as well...it would all depend on what scenario it is really.

 

Do you know of any company names? I want to know the requirements they are looking for. Thanks

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Do you know of any company names? I want to know the requirements they are looking for. Thanks

No sorry, I don't.  I've come across companies like that before, I've even interviewed at one before...but can't remember their name.

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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Just now, wanderingfool2 said:

No sorry, I don't.  I've come across companies like that before, I've even interviewed at one before...but can't remember their name.

No problem I can certainly do some digging. Would you just consider this a security specialist position then? As it's not just one discipline. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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