Pragmatism

[Wictorian]

I hope we are mature enough to have this conversation.

 

Loading Screen Tip : "-ism" doesnt mean politics. And if something contains the word politics doesnt mean it is political.

 

What do you think about Pragmatism? When I say pragmatism, I mean compromising to do something that will be beneficial in the short term but be harmful in the long run. I think by default everything has to be pragmatistic but I dont think we should compromise because it just decreases the benefits. Maybe you could compromise under very extreme circumstances but I think even that would lead nowhere in the end. However please dont discuss that as it not not too relevant to the topic however relevant enough to shift the attention.

[LWM723]

WHAT??

[Wictorian]

18 minutes ago, LWM723 said:

WHAT??

what

[Mojo-Jojo]

1 hour ago, Wictorian said:

 When I say pragmatism, I mean compromising to do something that will be beneficial in the short term but be harmful in the long run.

That's not the definition of pragmatism though. Pragmatism is about applying things in practice instead of solely for the purpose of theory.

So in more explicit terms, to connect this to your question; making a compromise between applied science and theoretical science in order to achieve a goal, I guess.

 

That leaves an assumption on your side that it will be harmful in the long run, but I think that should be part of your open question. Because I don't think this is always the case, but I have definitely run into situations where "getting results now" causes issues later, for example not having understood a problem well enough to produce a reliable solution.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Mojo-Jojo
because I accidentally posted too fast

[Wictorian]

2 minutes ago, Mojo-Jojo said:

That's not the definition of pragmatism though.

ok what is it? as far as I know it is to do the most beneficial thing. And what I said is a general consequence of that.

[Mojo-Jojo]

1 minute ago, Wictorian said:

ok what is it? as far as I know it is to do the most beneficial thing. And what I said is a general consequence of that.

Yeah sorry, I posted too quickly. I edited my post with my take on what pragmatism means. From what you've said, it either sounds like you mean something other than pragmatism, or have misunderstood pragmatism as a concept. I might be wrong though. My philosophy classes have been over 10 years ago, but a quick google seems to back me up.

[Quackers101]

6 hours ago, Wictorian said:

Loading Screen Tip : "-ism" doesnt mean politics. And if something contains the word politics doesnt mean it is political.

whatcha mean? or is it about the 2 faces of politics in video games? (if one could put it that way)

[rikitikitavi]

8 hours ago, LWM723 said:

WHAT??

Indeed, smells like politics thread cover up! To the pitchforks!

[rikitikitavi]

7 hours ago, Mojo-Jojo said:

Yeah sorry, I posted too quickly. I edited my post with my take on what pragmatism means. From what you've said, it either sounds like you mean something other than pragmatism, or have misunderstood pragmatism as a concept. I might be wrong though. My philosophy classes have been over 10 years ago, but a quick google seems to back me up.

Lol, you both on the same street but at the opposite ends of it.

 

He means pragmatism as a way to approach things sensibly, with somewhat safe guaranteed outcome, so go for applicable (known) option instead of shooting for the theory of maybe.

[rikitikitavi]

In short, pragmatism is great as seasonal clothes in your wardrobe.

You should always dress up according to the weather (and other circumstances).

[itshurleytime]

Why don't you find some other way to try to justify your political beliefs instead of talking around politics on an apolitical forum?

[Wictorian]

14 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

whatcha mean? or is it about the 2 faces of politics in video games? (if one could put it that way)

no

[danomicar]

Pragmatism to me is akin to not arguing with someone, even if you are correct, in order to not deal with the negative externalities of having an argument.

[Wictorian]

30 minutes ago, danomicar said:

Pragmatism to me is akin to not arguing with someone, even if you are correct, in order to not deal with the negative externalities of having an argument.

that is close to my definition

[Quackers101]

12 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

that is close to my definition

and mean such in what way?? for videogames or any example?

[wasab]

Theory = why and how it works

practice = best way to make the theory a reality
 

pragmatism is simply looking at the theory and acknowledges the limitations to implement these in reality.

 

In theory, we can solve world hunger if we just redistribute the entire worlds food produced equally among everyone. We have math explaining how and why x amount of food produced per year divided by 9 billion people would mean y amount per person per year which fulfills everyone’s calorie and nutrition needs.

 

But in practice…. Yeah good luck with that. A pragmatist would say this isn’t possible while an out of touch idealists would say if theory sounds good then….

 

 

 

 

[rikitikitavi]

2 hours ago, danomicar said:

Pragmatism to me is akin to not arguing with someone, even if you are correct, in order to not deal with the negative externalities of having an argument.

That’s called not stepping out of your comfort zone and avoiding conflict.

 

Pragmatism is not about avoiding emotional distress.

[rikitikitavi]

1 hour ago, Quackers101 said:

and mean such in what way?? for videogames or any example?

The game that’s called LIFE lol

[Quackers101]

3 hours ago, rikitikitavi said:

The game that’s called LIFE lol

--

[Wictorian]

38 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

ouch, so nothing about gaming and just a in general question? as one could see some of the topics of arguments around videogames and other media, then as to how social media storming a topic or making drama out of thin air. To everyone wanting to claim the reality of the situation or the "facts and logic", looking those kind of youtubers, newspapers, etc. Also how in to use politics in a meaningful way, and what it would mean to push some types of politics through this media. The "-ism" to "And if something contains the word politics doesnt mean it is political.".

dude i really wonder how you got the idea about games. the thing about politics was because this has nothing to do with politics and I dont want mods to think so. So pls dont talk about it.

[IPD]

Pragmatism is a sort-of middle-ground in practical application for real life.  Optimism is (as I frequently say) the belief that the situation will improve despite 0 evidence to support this conclusion.  Pessimism has the inherent virtue of either being pleasantly surprised or constantly proven correct.

 

Pragmatism is more about feasibility than vision.  That doesn't mean that long-term implication is irrelevant.  One can have a pragmatic approach towards long-term change.  An example would be how cigarette use became a social taboo.  Decades ago, cigarettes were a social norm--and non-smokers were the outliers.  A pragmatic approach to shift this is by reducing the appeal for smoking via movies/tv, restricting cigarette ads, etc.  Only later on would municipal governments and corporations move to ban smoking outright in everything from airplanes to bars.

 

In gist, don't confuse myopia & short-term gains at the expense of long-term viability---for the methods employed to enact a change.  Pragmatism may rule out a short-term plan (like smoking).  Pragmatism may rule out a long-term plan.  An example of that is creating a Utopia; a pragmatic view holds that a utopia is an impossibility.

[Wictorian]

1 hour ago, IPD said:

Pragmatism is a sort-of middle-ground in practical application for real life.  Optimism is (as I frequently say) the belief that the situation will improve despite 0 evidence to support this conclusion.  Pessimism has the inherent virtue of either being pleasantly surprised or constantly proven correct.

 

Pragmatism is more about feasibility than vision.  That doesn't mean that long-term implication is irrelevant.  One can have a pragmatic approach towards long-term change.  An example would be how cigarette use became a social taboo.  Decades ago, cigarettes were a social norm--and non-smokers were the outliers.  A pragmatic approach to shift this is by reducing the appeal for smoking via movies/tv, restricting cigarette ads, etc.  Only later on would municipal governments and corporations move to ban smoking outright in everything from airplanes to bars.

 

In gist, don't confuse myopia & short-term gains at the expense of long-term viability---for the methods employed to enact a change.  Pragmatism may rule out a short-term plan (like smoking).  Pragmatism may rule out a long-term plan.  An example of that is creating a Utopia; a pragmatic view holds that a utopia is an impossibility.

The short-term thing was mostly abstraction. According to the idea explained in the OP, even artificially decreasing the appeal of smoking is inherently not beneficial. However now I realise the OP assumes life is an utopia so ofcourse pragmatism wouldnt make sense. In the real world, pragmatism is probably the way to go.

 

[IPD]

I know what you meant.  You also shouldn't confuse meanings of "Utopia" and "Idealism".  Idealism is the inverse of pragmatism; where one sees things as they wish them to be or thinks they ought to be.  Utopia is more a construct that idealism fabricates.

 

The problem for much of what I see is that idealism has been exculpated in the public mindset--and pragmatism has been excoriated.  However, even an adolescent can surmise that the world has imperfection and that said imperfection is an unwavering constant.  This is where the likes of Objectivism (which I am a huge fan of) starts to fail--because the philosophical construct only works when the populace has the reason and logic to make it thus.

 

Perfection is an asymptote.  Everyone from bosses to spouses seems to lose track of that.