Should I??

[Ramim haque]

Is it worth spending more in a motherboard for upgrade ability?? 

[Middcore]

We're going to need you to be more specific. 

[Ramim haque]

1 minute ago, Middcore said:

We're going to need you to be more specific. 

Like how much

[Middcore]

3 minutes ago, Ramim haque said:

Like how much

 

Like, at minimum, telling us what motherboards you are looking at and what "upgradeability" considerations you have in mind. 

[Ramim haque]

3 minutes ago, Middcore said:

 

Like, at minimum, telling us what motherboards you are looking and what "upgradeability" considerations you have in mind. 

Like i want to go with r5 5600x and asus rog strix b550 F 

[freeagent]

Just now, Ramim haque said:

Like i want to go with r5 5600x and asus rog strix b550 F 

That is my second rig, it is solid and a high performer.

[Middcore]

Just now, Ramim haque said:

Like i want to go with r5 5600x and asus rog strix b550 F 

 

OK.

 

Is the B550-F the more expensive board you're considering for more theoretical upgrade potential? Or is it the lower end board? If the latter, what is the more expensive alternative you think you allow you to upgrade more? What type of upgrades are we talking about?

 

You should know any AM4 board is kind of a dead end in terms of upgrades because there aren't going to be any more CPU's for it, barring AMD deciding to slap 3D cache on a couple more SKU's. 

[Ramim haque]

3 minutes ago, Middcore said:

 

OK.

 

Is the B550-F the more expensive board you're considering for more theoretical upgrade potential? Or is it the lower end board? If the latter, what is the more expensive alternative you think you allow you to upgrade more? What type of upgrades are we talking about?

 

You should know any AM4 board is kind of a dead end in terms of upgrades because there aren't going to be any more CPU's for it, barring AMD deciding to slap 3D cache on a couple more SKU's. 

Yah i know that but the thing is that if i want to get a good performance at a mid price than i dont think so there is any other than am4 (r5 5600x)

[Middcore]

1 minute ago, Ramim haque said:

Yah i know that but the thing is that if i want to get a good performance at a mid price than i dont think so there is any other than am4 (r5 5600x)

 

12th-gen Intel i5 and a decent B660 board will match or beat 5600x, and have an upgrade path for the next Intel chip generation. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

No

 

AM4 is pretty much dead, any board with good enough vrms will be fine for upgrades if its even worth going from a 5600x to a 5900x when 14th gen arrives or something

 

asus is overpriced so wouldnt reccomend them but especially not for am4 (500 series) due to their garbage ram topology making mediocre speeds like 4400 a challenge to reach, the older am4 boards and the intel ones dont seem to be plagued by garbage ram topology so dont worry about those but still overpriced anyways so still best to avoid unless you get a good deal on one

[Middcore]

2 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

due to their garbage ram topology making mediocre speeds like 4400 a challenge to reach

 

For reference @Ramim haque, this guy likes to talk about RAM overclocking a lot... but 3600mhz is considered the "sweet spot" for Ryzen 3000 and 5000 CPU's with anything beyond that yielding diminishing returns and little perceptible performance gain, and 3600mhz is also easy to achieve with any RAM kit rated for it simply by enabling XMP. Unless you are into RAM overclocking just as an enthusiast hobby thing, this should not be a major consideration in choosing a board. 

[IkeaGnome]

And keep in mind the 4400 that the person is talking about would run in 2:1 mode and not 1:1. You would actually get much performance, if any from wasting time doing that. 

[Ramim haque]

11 minutes ago, Middcore said:

 

12th-gen Intel i5 and a decent B660 board will match or beat 5600x, and have an upgrade path for the next Intel chip generation. 

Than should i ditch the idea to going for am4 and go with intel or wait ryzen 7000

[Ramim haque]

3 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

And keep in mind the 4400 that the person is talking about would run in 2:1 mode and not 1:1. You would actually get much performance, if any from wasting time doing that. 

Bro can you tell me what is 2:1 mode

[IkeaGnome]

13 minutes ago, Ramim haque said:

Bro can you tell me what is 2:1 mode

On Ryzen you have what is called Infinity Fabric. Basically it’s your memory controller for the ram. When it’s in 1:1 mode the controller and your ram are at the same speed. Say 1600mhz. 3200 mhz ram is very common because 1600 mhz is very easy to get from the memory controller. 3200mhz ram is actually running at 1600 mhz because it’s Double Data Rate. For every 1 signal sent 1 is received. When you get into faster RAM and can’t get the memory controller to run at the same speed you’ll run in 2:1 mode. 4400 mhz DDR4 is running at 2200 MHZ. If you don’t have a god of a memory controller it’ll run at 1100 mhz. Less communication and slower communication between ram and CPU. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by IkeaGnome
Sorry if this is poorly worded or over simplified. On mobile

[Ramim haque]

13 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

On Ryzen you have what is called Infinity Fabric. Basically it’s your memory controller for the ram. When it’s in 1:1 mode the controller and your ram are at the same speed. Say 1600mhz. 3200 mhz ram is very common because 1600 mhz is very easy to get from the memory controller. 3200mhz ram is actually running at 1600 mhz because it’s Double Data Rate. For every 1 signal sent 1 is received. When you get into faster RAM and can’t get the memory controller to run at the same speed you’ll run in 2:1 mode. 4400 mhz DDR4 is running at 2200 MHZ. If you don’t have a god of a memory controller it’ll run at 1100 mhz. Less communication and slower communication between ram and CPU. 

Oh i understand now

[freeagent]

1 hour ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

No

 

AM4 is pretty much dead, any board with good enough vrms will be fine for upgrades if its even worth going from a 5600x to a 5900x when 14th gen arrives or something

 

asus is overpriced so wouldnt reccomend them but especially not for am4 (500 series) due to their garbage ram topology making mediocre speeds like 4400 a challenge to reach, the older am4 boards and the intel ones dont seem to be plagued by garbage ram topology so dont worry about those but still overpriced anyways so still best to avoid unless you get a good deal on one

Dude.. your newest system is X58 or Z77 or whatever. You shouldn’t speak of things that you don’t know about

 

That said.. AM4 will still be around for awhile, new cpus will be made for it too. It will live in harmony with AM5.. even if it’s just for a year or two.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, freeagent said:

Dude.. your newest system is X58 or Z77 or whatever. You shouldn’t speak of things that you don’t know about

 

That said.. AM4 will still be around for awhile, new cpus will be made for it too. It will live in harmony with AM5.. even if it’s just for a year or two.

It's weird how that works, the platforms overlapping.

 

Like the A8 APUs that carried over to the B350 chipset from the old FX chips. I guess when you buy in bulk, you gotta find a way to sell off the product cause you have that much inventory.

 

I'm excited to see of AMD brings that DDR5 memory OC to the table like which has been said supposedly. I'm sure they will compete well, they do on DDR4 with the only draw back running 2:1, but with Intel chips, you gotta do the same thing. Cut the memory controller speed in half. I find this counter productive on DDR5 up till around 6000mhz memory frequency. Once you get the Revs up, you can pick up 100K reads and writes with decent cpu frequency. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

7 hours ago, freeagent said:

Dude.. your newest system is X58 or Z77 or whatever. You shouldn’t speak of things that you don’t know about

 

That said.. AM4 will still be around for awhile, new cpus will be made for it too. It will live in harmony with AM5.. even if it’s just for a year or two.

The z77 is dead

ill get a new one though but ill needa get abit of profit first, maybe then if i also tec cool my pentium i can do near 3000, not exactly blazing fast since most decent mfrs can do it but fast enough ig, i mean basically noone can run ddr3 3000 other than some haswell users

 

and yes im aware <2600 ddr3 is slow garbage (hynixes, psc 1gbit, rev d 2gbit, etc. Easy 2600+) and <1200 ddr2 is also slow garbage (d9gxx >1200 5-5-5, nanya d >1400 7-9-6, whatever the hell elpida they use on ocz lv blade >1200 5-5-5 1.8v), so <4400 ddr4 is slow garbage when cheaply available rev e does 4600+, sure ram controller is quite the limiter for actual performance cause gotta cut its speed in half on most cpus (usually when going over 3800-4200mhz, cezanne is mostly immune to this w 2500+ fclk)

 

the cheapest way im aware of getting into ddr4 5000+ oc is just 4500/5500 + a520mh and thats still too expensive for me

 

 

but yea ram oc doesnt matter that much, mostly just for fun, if you are doing it for performance just get a decent ic like micron rev e and follow a profile off the internet and theres 95% of the benifit from ocing without the hassle and belive me you really dont want the hassle (blindly ocing ddr2 cause theres basically no info on it cause non existent or deleted cause its been >12 years, spending days and days trying to get this one f fing speed to work and stop f ing crashing >>>:(  yea you get the point)

[SteveGrabowski0]

Upgrade path is a suckers buy imo, by the time 5600x or 12400 is obsolete anything else you'd throw in that board will be old news too. Don't cheap out on another component that'll matter like gpu or cpu just to have the ability to use a 12900k on your board in four years when it'll still be expensive but nothing special performance wise any more.

[jaslion]

20 hours ago, Middcore said:

perceptible performance gain

Sometimes even worse performance funnily enough

[jaslion]

Basically. Always get a good enough board and NEVER overspend. The upgrade path for a board with intel is usually 2 cycles. By the time a 12400f isnt good enough anymore the 13900k isnt gonna be doing too good either anymore.

 

Amd is a different story as they went for 4 generations. So spending a bit more to have a higher tier chipset with a higher chance of keeping that board for the entire run can make sense. However again dont overspend. By the time a 7600 isnt good enough anymore a 4 year later cpu will also have fallen behind and you might just be better off jumping platform.

 

Tl:dr get a board that is good enough but dont spend more. Do not buy with upgradeability in mind but consider it a nice extra.