TV or Projector - Best option for gaming and movie watching

[drdrewnatic]

The original owners of my house built a media/theatre room with in ceiling speakers. When I moved in, they left behind the projector with mount, screen, subwoofer, and AV receiver.

 

The current projector is an Epson PowerLife Home Cinema 710HD and it is loud. I don't know if it is just old but I can't see how anyone could watch anything with how loud the fan is. Anyway, I'm planning on using this room and I'm wondering if it would be better to just buy a big TV and ditch the projector or buy a new projector. Mainly going to be using it for movie watching and gaming. Thoughts?

[emosun]

If projector noise is a problem for you then get a tv because most projectors make noise. that's why they usually are in a separate room in a cinema

[drdrewnatic]

4 minutes ago, emosun said:

If projector noise is a problem for you then get a tv because most projectors make noise. that's why they usually are in a separate room in a cinema

I know that there is always going to be a little noise but this is more of a whine than just a hum. I'd have to think that it's just because the bearings are old.

[Colty]

How far away is the seating? 

https://www.inchcalculator.com/tv-size-viewing-distance-calculator/

I used this to setup my home theater and used the "THX suggested" as it makes for a comfortable semi-theater level experience that still works well for gaming. 

I personally don't like projectors, for a similar price, grab an OLED and pull the couch in. Better all around experience. 

RTings will always be my recommendation for finding/comparing displays. 

[IPD]

53 minutes ago, Colty said:

How far away is the seating? 

https://www.inchcalculator.com/tv-size-viewing-distance-calculator/

I used this to setup my home theater and used the "THX suggested" as it makes for a comfortable semi-theater level experience that still works well for gaming. 

I personally don't like projectors, for a similar price, grab an OLED and pull the couch in. Better all around experience. 

RTings will always be my recommendation for finding/comparing displays. 

For that matter, just get an OLED smartphone and a headboard mount so you can put the screen 6" from your eyeballs.  Or just implant it in your contact lens--because even closer.

#logic

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Projector haters are, imho, those who either know nothing of the market segment--and/or are too lazy to learn.  The Epson you have is a POS with a 720p output.  In god's name why you would want to use such a monstrosity in 2022--even if it were dead silent--escapes the sane mind.  It's 10 years old even by modest estimates of when the owner got it.  Even back then, 1080p would have been preferential.  Plus it's a lamp-type projector--which notoriously run hotter and bulbs burn out far faster than modern, laser-based counterparts.

 

The previous owner did 100% of the work/cost for installing a long-throw setup.  All you have to do is replace the projector.  And your thought is "should I just rip it all out and go with a TV?"  I mean, you do you, bro.  But damn.  If you were my bud, I'd smack the shit out of you for even entertaining that as an option.  Unless, of course, the screen is 80" and you are planning on an 85" tv (somehow I doubt that's the case).

 

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Here's what is listed as world's first 4k, HDR gaming projector.  Granted, it's a lamp-type; but those are (for now) still egads cheaper than a laser.  And 4k is a HELL of an upgrade from 720p.

 

https://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-TK700STi.htm

 

Spend a little more, and you can get a laser light source.

 

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-UHZ50-DLP-Laser-Projector-Review.htm

 

 

 

[Colty]

1 hour ago, IPD said:

For that matter, just get an OLED smartphone and a headboard mount so you can put the screen 6" from your eyeballs.  Or just implant it in your contact lens--because even closer.

#logic

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Projector haters are, imho, those who either know nothing of the market segment--and/or are too lazy to learn.

I understand you're being pedantic, but that's obviously not the same.

$1700, almost enough for a 77" OLED, which gets you to about 8ft away from the screen if you use the THX suggested guidelines for FOV. 
The BenQ only supports 10-bit HDR, this isn't as big of a deal as some make it out to be, but it's worth noting.
Infinite contrast ratio is of course better than "10,000:1", but even by QLED standards, that's bad, QLED is about double that iirc, and that's a proper test, not even advertising spec sheet BS.

Input lag will be largely better on an OLED, obviously. 

But OP, just look up "OLED vs projector AVSForums", you'll find MANY people who spent decades using projectors that have swapped over to OLED because it can't be beat. Projectors are limited to dark rooms, OLED does best in a dark room, but will work anyway. OLEDs produce better picture quality, the only thing worth considering after that point is the screen size, and like I said, if you can be 8ft away or less, the OLED will be the better option. And even amongst those people who previously had 100"+ projectors, they went to a smaller OLED and brought the furniture in to get their "ultimate experience", lots of talk about "quality vs quantity" when it comes to the screen. 

[IPD]

3 hours ago, Colty said:

I understand you're being pedantic, but that's obviously not the same.

$1700, almost enough for a 77" OLED, which gets you to about 8ft away from the screen if you use the THX suggested guidelines for FOV. 
The BenQ only supports 10-bit HDR, this isn't as big of a deal as some make it out to be, but it's worth noting.
Infinite contrast ratio is of course better than "10,000:1", but even by QLED standards, that's bad, QLED is about double that iirc, and that's a proper test, not even advertising spec sheet BS.

Input lag will be largely better on an OLED, obviously. 

But OP, just look up "OLED vs projector AVSForums", you'll find MANY people who spent decades using projectors that have swapped over to OLED because it can't be beat. Projectors are limited to dark rooms, OLED does best in a dark room, but will work anyway. OLEDs produce better picture quality, the only thing worth considering after that point is the screen size, and like I said, if you can be 8ft away or less, the OLED will be the better option. And even amongst those people who previously had 100"+ projectors, they went to a smaller OLED and brought the furniture in to get their "ultimate experience", lots of talk about "quality vs quantity" when it comes to the screen. 

Let's do some basic math.  Virtually all projectors have a "nominal max size" of 120" (some long-throw will easily go up to 150"+, but I digress).  120" display is 143% larger area than a 77".

 

http://www.displaywars.com/77-inch-16x9-vs-120-inch-16x9

 

At $1700, your price per square inch of display for a 77" is $0.67.  For a 120" it is $0.28.  So less than half the cost per sq/in of display area.

---

 

Now let's examine what "better option" means.  Was the room properly prepped with dark color paint/accents?  Blackout curtains?  What was the ambient light level in the room?  Were they using screen paint and black molding for a border--or a Black Diamond ALR screen?  What was the ANSI lumen rating on the projector they used?  Was it LT, ST or UST?  Was this individually actually a DIY legend who has no reservations about modifications to a setup or facilitating one?  Was this person a noob who barely understands projectors--and went with a panel display because that's all the smarter their room-temperature IQ could figure out?

 

IDK who these "many people" are--but they are either a concoction of your imagination--or knuckle-dragging luddites.  Possibly both.  And I have yet to see any OLED of any flavor have a predicted lifespan (without burn-in) that outlasts that of a laser projector.  100,000 hour lifespan OLED doesn't mean anything if it will have burn in in 5000 hours. 

 

#1 consideration for your average consumer--by a WIDE margin--is size.  It's not even close.  Sure, if gaming on a 20" CRT made in 1998 is your thing--because response time and all that--go for it.  But even Linus admitted that he was stunned how good projectors can be.

 

People who throw in the towel and go back to panels by choice (rather than cost savings necessity, etc)--just strike me as Troglodytes.  Like they still believe we are using 3-color beam projectors that were state-of-the-art back in 1977.  OP, you owe it to yourself to go try out a demo room at a local AV shop to see what a good projector setup looks like.  Because I will bet dollars to doughnuts that whatever you "give up" by going with a projector vs. whatever bleeding-edge-shit-for-everything-but-looks-pretty-OLED...is damn near inconsequential.  Especially if you are the type of person who is asking this question...evidencing that you are a novice to much of this.

 

p.s.

And this isn't even scratching the surface on UST laser projectors--which will hopefully slam the door shut on OLED fanbois in the next few years or so.

 

 

[drdrewnatic]

6 hours ago, Colty said:

How far away is the seating? 

Approx. 10ft.

 

6 hours ago, IPD said:

I'd smack the shit out of you for even entertaining that as an option.

Hey, don't steal Will's move.

 

6 hours ago, IPD said:

Here's what is listed as world's first 4k, HDR gaming projector.  Granted, it's a lamp-type; but those are (for now) still egads cheaper than a laser.  And 4k is a HELL of an upgrade from 720p.

$2000 CAD!? That's way out of my budget. I guess I should have made that more clear in my original post. I was looking at something in the >$1300 CAD category. Maybe more if I could be convinced of the benefits. Plus, what's the noise output of that?

 

2 hours ago, IPD said:

Was the room properly prepped with dark color paint/accents?  Blackout curtains?  What was the ambient light level in the room?  Were they using screen paint and black molding for a border--or a Black Diamond ALR screen?

Yes. Yes. Unable to measure. Just a regular 100" pull down projector screen with no branding apart from a serial number.

 

2 hours ago, IPD said:

OP, you owe it to yourself to go try out a demo room at a local AV shop to see what a good projector setup looks like.  Because I will bet dollars to doughnuts that whatever you "give up" by going with a projector vs. whatever bleeding-edge-shit-for-everything-but-looks-pretty-OLED...is damn near inconsequential

Good to know

 

2 hours ago, IPD said:

Especially if you are the type of person who is asking this question...evidencing that you are a novice to much of this.

You are correct.

 

--------

 

I would like to also note that I only plan on staying in this place for 3-4 more years. This isn't a long term thing. Just thought it would be nice to use this room for the time being.

 

I'm not saying this is anybody's fault, but I would like to keep this discussion solely focused on my situation and not have this get into an overall debate of which is better. I appreciate all of your comments.

[Colty]

3 hours ago, IPD said:

-snip-

Blah blah, price per screen size, so just grab a free LCD off the side of the road because value? Does PQ just not matter to you then? Again, the FOV is what matters, not the size itself. It's relative. Idk why you're going on about this when I already pointed out that it's flawed to focus on just dimensions. 

Burn in after 5k hours? Umm, have you ever looked at the RTings OLED burn-in test? After 2yrs of being on 20hrs a day, even the old LG C7 doesn't have issues with burn in (after almost 15000 hours) except for the CNN torture test. They even have a note about the 5k hour mark. These aren't even TRUE real world tests as they used repeated clips from real things instead of native sources, but they wanted a controlled, repeatable test so I understand why this was done.

Idk who those many people on AVS are either, my suggestion was to look at AVS and compare testimonies of those who went from projectors to OLED or recently made the decision between the two. It's a great way to get an idea as to what things you may prefer about one or the other. I think it's very bold, and rude, to assume "they are either a concoction of your imagination--or knuckle-dragging luddites.  Possibly both."

"Room temp IQ" and "Troglodytes" again with the random name calling... I didn't pick a screen by panel type, I picked it by test results, actual numbers and real world experience with projectors (though not much with laser projectors) LCDs, LEDs, CRTs, Plasmas, and OLEDs. 

"whatever bleeding-edge-shit-for-everything-but-looks-pretty-OLED" what does this even mean? Shit for everything, but looks pretty? What is "everything"? Picture quality is great, yeah. It's also not going to need active cooling, will have the best response time for gaming, ect. How about "OLED, you'll give up screen real estate, but benefit in every other measurable category vs whatever shit-for-everything-but-makes-big-screen-projector"? 

Anyway, could you please step away from being needlessly hostile and have a real conversation discussing the actual merits (besides screen size) of one vs another? So far, you've just insinuated that I don't know what I'm talking about instead of offering anything teachable to me or OP. 

 

36 minutes ago, drdrewnatic said:

-snip-

Can the seating be moved in? At 10ft, you would be stuck with a projector for the THX suggested viewing size. (90" being recommended making the existing 100" screen about spot-on) Though, you may be like many and find the THX recommendation too much for day-to-day viewing, which would drop you into the 70"-85" screen range for the "SMPTE suggested" FOV/viewing angle.

If you're not planning to be here long term, is it worth investing into a projector setup that you may not be able to make work in the next place you live? 

If you are set on keeping the seating arrangement and going with a projector, it's worthwhile to check BenQ's site for refurbs, check for open box stuff at local stores, or even check out Facebook Marketplace/Craigslist. Also, I wouldn't take measured Db rating for the cooling as concrete. A "loud" fan with a nice profile will be much more livable than a "quiet" fan with a whine/hiss that you find grating.

For about $1300 CAD, the Epson EH-TW7100 is a great bet if you want something with a warranty. It's also designed to be used by "average-joes" and is pretty user friendly. I've seen it mentioned a few times on /r/projectors. However, with projectors, you have a choice to make around that price point. Do you want the clarity of DLP or the colors/brightness of 3LCD?

Also, is the projector mount in a fixed spot? How far is it from the screen? Is this something you'd feel comfortable relocating? 

[drdrewnatic]

19 minutes ago, Colty said:

Can the seating be moved in? At 10ft, you would be stuck with a projector for the THX suggested viewing size. (90" being recommended making the existing 100" screen about spot-on) Though, you may be like many and find the THX recommendation too much for day-to-day viewing, which would drop you into the 70"-85" screen range for the "SMPTE suggested" FOV/viewing angle.

Yeah. Not sure how much room I have before my head starts blocking the light. This wouldn't be used too much for day to day as I already have a tv in my living room and  plus my pc.

 

21 minutes ago, Colty said:

If you're not planning to be here long term, is it worth investing into a projector setup that you may not be able to make work in the next place you live? 

Thought about that, figured if it's no use to me, I could just sell it.

 

24 minutes ago, Colty said:

Do you want the clarity of DLP or the colors/brightness of 3LCD?

The room is already pretty dark so I don't need the brightness of a 3LCD so I guess DLP? I don't know. I'm a super noob when it comes to home theatre stuff..

 

27 minutes ago, Colty said:

Also, is the projector mount in a fixed spot? How far is it from the screen? Is this something you'd feel comfortable relocating?

(See Picture) The projector is the same distance away as myself. I am sitting directly underneath it. With the way the room is constructed, there isn't really an option for re-location. The ceiling is angled on both sides (see expertly drawn diagram) with it being flat in the centre. The cables connected to it go down a raceway to reach the ground. The power cable pops out close to the ground while the HDMI cable goes underneath the carpet and to the receiver  on the other end of the room.

 

[IPD]

2 hours ago, drdrewnatic said:

Approx. 10ft.

 

Hey, don't steal Will's move.

 

$2000 CAD!? That's way out of my budget. I guess I should have made that more clear in my original post. I was looking at something in the >$1300 CAD category. Maybe more if I could be convinced of the benefits. Plus, what's the noise output of that?

 

Yes. Yes. Unable to measure. Just a regular 100" pull down projector screen with no branding apart from a serial number.

 

Good to know

 

You are correct.

 

--------

 

I would like to also note that I only plan on staying in this place for 3-4 more years. This isn't a long term thing. Just thought it would be nice to use this room for the time being.

 

I'm not saying this is anybody's fault, but I would like to keep this discussion solely focused on my situation and not have this get into an overall debate of which is better. I appreciate all of your comments.

Well you can always just bring the projector with you when you move.  Nothing says this is an item that you won't keep with you after 4 years.

 

Screen isn't the greatest of offerings.  You ideally want tab-tensioned, fixed-frame.  Not saying you can't get an acceptable image from a pull-down.  Just that the best surface for a projected image is something rigid.

 

There's also the x-factor of what kind of screen it is.  White?  Grey?  Ambient light rejection (ALR)?  What is the gain?  etc, etc, etc.

 

Plus, if you already have a conventional living room setup--the advantage of going with a conventional fixed-panel display over a projector....is virtually zero.

 

p.s.

10' viewing distance...with the conventional wisdom of 1:1 - 1:2 ratio means that displays between 120" and 60" are the extreme ends of what most sources would recommend.  100" is a good fit, imho.

 

p.p.s.

Those aren't the only projector options.  The world is littered with choices.  If you aren't extremely sensitive and not insisting on the absolute lowest of input lag--then you might be able to game just fine on a regular projector.  Save a few bucks in the process.  Some of which you could even use with a cheap <$100 portable projector screen for on-the-go, outdoors enjoyment later on.  I have an M7 myself, and I love it.

 

https://www.projectorcentral.com/AAXA-M7-LED-Projector-Review.htm

 

https://www.projectorcentral.com/AAXA-P8-Pico-Projector-Review.htm

 

https://www.amazon.com/Projector-Foldable-Portable-Inch（16：9）-Projection/dp/B08F1XLD1Z/

[drdrewnatic]

1 hour ago, IPD said:

There's also the x-factor of what kind of screen it is.  White?  Grey?  Ambient light rejection (ALR)?  What is the gain?  etc, etc, etc.

White. Don't know the other two.

 

Thanks both for the recommendations. I think I have a better understanding of what I should be looking for when picking a product.