Alternative to Define 7

[jamieboo]

Hello folks

 

Got everything for my new build except the case.

I was all decided on a Fractal Design Define 7 (solid black - not the glass sided one) but it seems to be out of stock pretty much everywhere, and the few places it's not the prices have got silly.

I know the Define 7 reviewed well, and my previous machine was a Define 5 which I was very impressed with, so I trust the brand.

I'll hold out for a bit to see if it comes back in stock, but I probably need to consider alternatives.

I need it to be very quiet as I'll use the machine for voice recording, good build quality, but also I want it to cool well in gaming. (My build is based around a i7 12700K with a Noctua NH-D15S cooler. For now the GPU is my old 1080ti, but I'll probably upgrade if/when prices become less silly.)

For this kind of machine what would you all regard as a solid alternative to the Define 7? Budget: no more than £150.

 

Thanks

[Gorgon]

1 hour ago, jamieboo said:

Hello folks

 

Got everything for my new build except the case.

I was all decided on a Fractal Design Define 7 (solid black - not the glass sided one) but it seems to be out of stock pretty much everywhere, and the few places it's not the prices have got silly.

I know the Define 7 reviewed well, and my previous machine was a Define 5 which I was very impressed with, so I trust the brand.

I'll hold out for a bit to see if it comes back in stock, but I probably need to consider alternatives.

I need it to be very quiet as I'll use the machine for voice recording, good build quality, but also I want it to cool well in gaming. (My build is based around a i7 12700K with a Noctua NH-D15S cooler. For now the GPU is my old 1080ti, but I'll probably upgrade if/when prices become less silly.)

For this kind of machine what would you all regard as a solid alternative to the Define 7? Budget: no more than £150.

 

Thanks

I've gotten away from trying to use sound deadening cases with noisy fans to air-flow cases with larger quiet fans. The Meshify 2 is available with no glass and supports 3 140mm fans at the front. The biggest difference in terms of options is that the Define support more hard drives.

 

BeQuiet, if your really silence focused, is another option but likely outside of your budget.

[Ravendarat]

2 hours ago, jamieboo said:

Hello folks

 

Got everything for my new build except the case.

I was all decided on a Fractal Design Define 7 (solid black - not the glass sided one) but it seems to be out of stock pretty much everywhere, and the few places it's not the prices have got silly.

I know the Define 7 reviewed well, and my previous machine was a Define 5 which I was very impressed with, so I trust the brand.

I'll hold out for a bit to see if it comes back in stock, but I probably need to consider alternatives.

I need it to be very quiet as I'll use the machine for voice recording, good build quality, but also I want it to cool well in gaming. (My build is based around a i7 12700K with a Noctua NH-D15S cooler. For now the GPU is my old 1080ti, but I'll probably upgrade if/when prices become less silly.)

For this kind of machine what would you all regard as a solid alternative to the Define 7? Budget: no more than £150.

 

Thanks

Where do you live? Up here in Canada Memory Express has a bunch of Define 7 cases

[jamieboo]

2 hours ago, Gorgon said:

I've gotten away from trying to use sound deadening cases with noisy fans to air-flow cases with larger quiet fans. The Meshify 2 is available with no glass and supports 3 140mm fans at the front. The biggest difference in terms of options is that the Define support more hard drives.

 

BeQuiet, if your really silence focused, is another option but likely outside of your budget.

Hmmm. It's essential that it's as quiet as possible. I know some tests have been done that show that better airflow can actually be quieter than a 'quiet' case. But would the Meshify 2 really be as quiet as the Define 7? The Define R5 I had before was quiet, it would feel like a step down if my new case was louder than that!

Thanks.

3 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

Where do you live? Up here in Canada Memory Express has a bunch of Define 7 cases

Oh really? Unfortunately I'm in the UK, and here they're seeming increasingly scarce.

[CASyHD]

I can definitely Rep for the Define R7 awesome Case suitable for every build. And it also has the Option for a Mesh front. I Would wait for it to come back in Stock or Look at the used Market maybe, i actually bought mine used. Soundwise it rly depends on the Fans inside. It can help to reduce the noise floor with dampening but it can also make it hotter so that the fans are running Harder, a fine Line.

[Gorgon]

On 3/16/2022 at 5:20 PM, jamieboo said:

Hmmm. It's essential that it's as quiet as possible. I know some tests have been done that show that better airflow can actually be quieter than a 'quiet' case. But would the Meshify 2 really be as quiet as the Define 7? The Define R5 I had before was quiet, it would feel like a step down if my new case was louder than that!

Thanks.

See:

See starting at Standardized Fans Case Torture Test at 17:21 and look at the numbers comparing to the Define 7. Then look at the Noise Normalized results. At a Noise Normalized setting for 36dBA at 1m the Meshify 2 is 50.7C & 51.7C for the CPU and GPU respectively and the Define 7 62.5 & 52.8C but the Define 7 could not hit 36 dBA, only 34.6 dBA max so 1.4 dBA difference.

 

I own 2 x Define 4s and a Define C and S and the 2 x Meshify 2s and the Meshify C I also run are both capable of running quieter because the Cases have less "impedance" to airflow.

 

The point I'm trying to make, and one Steve makes in the conclusions, is the Meshify 2 can be made just as quiet as the 7 simply by adjusting the fan curves and with it's significant airflow advantage it has the headroom such that the CPU and GPU would not be choked for air.

 

The Fractal included fans are kind of meh. I wish they just would bother and would sell the chassis without fans. I usually replace them with Noctua NF-A14iPPC 3000 PWMs but then I'm insane and run dual GPUs and 24 & 32-core processors for Folding at home so my use case is the other end of the spectrum.

 

Replacing the stock fans with better, quieter ones would only improve things further. Though these NF-A14s are louder they are so at 1500 rpm rather than 1000rpm for the Fractal ones and have higher static pressure and more airflow and can easily be tuned lower or these Silent Wings 3 from BeQuiet.

 

I would also suggest a Platinum or Titanium power supply sized for 40-50% of your typical load. That way you likely will never have the fan spin up on that.

[jaslion]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:20 PM, jamieboo said:

Hmmm. It's essential that it's as quiet as possible. I know some tests have been done that show that better airflow can actually be quieter than a 'quiet' case. But would the Meshify 2 really be as quiet as the Define 7? The Define R5 I had before was quiet, it would feel like a step down if my new case was louder than that!

Thanks.

Oh really? Unfortunately I'm in the UK, and here they're seeming increasingly scarce.

Depends on your components. But in general yeah better airflow results in cooler components which then means the fans run less hard. So less noise. This is a feedback loop till you reach an equilibrium.

[jamieboo]

6 hours ago, jaslion said:

Depends on your components.

I've got an i7 12700K, a Noctua NH-D15S, 128GB Corsair 3600Mhz RAM, 2x Gen4 NVMe SSDs, A Corsair RM1000x (2021) PSU and, for the moment, an MSI GTX1080ti.

So there's some potential for heat here even though I don't plan to overclock anything.

Surely a Meshify 2 could not be quieter than a Define 7?

[Gorgon]

2 hours ago, jamieboo said:

Surely a Meshify 2 could not be quieter than a Define 7?

Pretty much any chassis can be quieter than another if you disable the fans on it which are the components that produce the most amount of noise. Say you replace the NH-D15S with a NH-P1 Passive Cooler - that would make things even quieter.

 

The real question is which chassis is most quiet running the core components (CPU and GPU) at the same or similar thermals under the same workload?

 

Just like you can "brute-force" maximum cooling by replacing stock fans with NF-A14-iPPC3000 PWM or Delta 140mm "blowiematrons" (don't even try plugging these into a Fan Header on your motherboard ) you can also use the BIOS Fan-curves or OS Software to reduce the fans' speed at a specific CPU temperature to achieve lower noise AT THE EXPENSE OF THERMALS.

 

Likewise a chassis with lower Airflow Impedance will allow the same fans to run at lower speeds to achieve the same thermals. The Define series, by design, restrict the airflow into the front of the chassis so that the layer of sound absorbing material on the inside of the front panel can help absorb some of the fan noise. The downside of this is with the air having to make 2 90 degree turns to enter the chassis and the chassis only having narrow inlets on the sides of the front panel in order to get decent airflow for cooling you need fans with higher Static Pressure and Airflow to keep the components cooled.

 

Yes, you can technically fit 2 mid-range GPUs (RTX2070, 3070 or 6800x) and a i9-12900K or r9-5950x inside a Define 7 but good luck keeping them operating within safe thermal ranges without having to replace the stock fans with ones with much higher Static Pressure and Airflow.

 

With a chassis like the Meshify 2 or S2 there is so much less Airflow Impedance you can even use Air-flow optimized fans rather than Static Pressure optimized fans which are quieter or just simply run the same fans at lower speeds.

 

Lower Speed = Lower Noise

Larger Fans at the same speed as Smaller Fans = More Airflow

Larger Fans at the same Airflow as Smaller Fans = Less Noise

 

I suspect that the software you use for Sound Recording makes little to no use of the GPU in which use case your only concern is to keep the CPU below Tjmax (90-105C) and a judicious fan curve will easily do this in either chassis.

 

The real benefit of an Airflow-optimized chassis over a Sound-optimized chassis will be when your playing games. You CPU and GPU will be able to run at lower temperatures and lower temperatures mean higher boost clocks these days.

[jaslion]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:02 PM, jamieboo said:

I've got an i7 12700K, a Noctua NH-D15S, 128GB Corsair 3600Mhz RAM, 2x Gen4 NVMe SSDs, A Corsair RM1000x (2021) PSU and, for the moment, an MSI GTX1080ti.

So there's some potential for heat here even though I don't plan to overclock anything.

Surely a Meshify 2 could not be quieter than a Define 7?

The only components I see being a bit noisy is the 1080ti. But if you set a custom fan curve it will be more performant in the meshify 2 whilst having the same noise level.

 

Anything else will be just not audible by default as the rmx is basically going to run passive to low noise permanently and the nhd15 is by default extremely quiet and doesn't struggle at all to cool a 12700k.