To international buyers - Check the customs charges and VAT

[Samuel Carvalho]

On 3/25/2022 at 8:35 PM, trag1c said:

This is a North America thing and perhaps a e-commerce site thing as well. Very rarely do goods and services have the taxes built into the price. In Canada, the only thing off the top of my head that I can think of that has the taxes built into it is the price is fuel. Some e-commerce platforms also handle localization with varying degrees of success. Even for handling different states/provinces where taxes can differ, some ecommerce platforms can choke.

Most products have tax built into the price? Everything in the UK, EU prices displayed on sites and in stores all show the price (which takes into account tax). At the end of the shop, it calculates the 20% by calculating the total value of your bill but nobody looks or thinks about tax because everything you buy already has a 20% tax on the purchase price.

 

A bottle of coke is £1. Says that online, says that on the shelf. You go to pay, and you pay £1. Receipt shows bottle of Coke cost £1, and at the bottom says that 20p of the £1 total shop was added tax. Buy £100 worth of clothes online, and you pay £100. The 20% (£20 VAT) is already built into the price…

 

Literally nobody thinks about tax or working out tax on items for things like this unless you’re buying for a business. It’s stupid and I don’t get why America does it. When shopping on USAF bases in the UK in their supermarkets, it’s annoying buying things and forgetting they’re gonna add extra at the end. I don’t get the point. Just add it before if they’re going to be paying it at the end. Is it just a ploy to make Americans think stuff is cheaper by going “Hey, this item is actually $8 and we are only charging you $8 but the Gov are going to make you pay $10”???

[Ravendarat]

3 hours ago, Samuel Carvalho said:

Most products have tax built into the price? Everything in the UK, EU prices displayed on sites and in stores all show the price (which takes into account tax). At the end of the shop, it calculates the 20% by calculating the total value of your bill but nobody looks or thinks about tax because everything you buy already has a 20% tax on the purchase price.

 

A bottle of coke is £1. Says that online, says that on the shelf. You go to pay, and you pay £1. Receipt shows bottle of Coke cost £1, and at the bottom says that 20p of the £1 total shop was added tax. Buy £100 worth of clothes online, and you pay £100. The 20% (£20 VAT) is already built into the price…

 

Literally nobody thinks about tax or working out tax on items for things like this unless you’re buying for a business. It’s stupid and I don’t get why America does it. When shopping on USAF bases in the UK in their supermarkets, it’s annoying buying things and forgetting they’re gonna add extra at the end. I don’t get the point. Just add it before if they’re going to be paying it at the end. Is it just a ploy to make Americans think stuff is cheaper by going “Hey, this item is actually $8 and we are only charging you $8 but the Gov are going to make you pay $10”???

In Canada we have the same system as the states, I assure you as a consumer we all find it as stupid as you do lol. But as for why, im pretty sure its as you stated, its the perception of being cheaper than it actually is

[wgaca]

Looks like the same thing happened to me just now.

 

After finally receiving the backpack to the UK on which I paid 20% on checkout I now have to pay another £66 to parcelforce

Currently waiting for support to reply but I am assuming they have to refund the 20% charged,

 

Subtotal $322.96 USD

Shipping (14 - 28 Day Delivery) $79.98 USD

Tax (Standard Rate 20.0%) $80.60 USD

Total $483.54 USD

[Stonelesscutter]

1 hour ago, wgaca said:

Looks like the same thing happened to me just now.

 

After finally receiving the backpack to the UK on which I paid 20% on checkout I now have to pay another £66 to parcelforce

Currently waiting for support to reply but I am assuming they have to refund the 20% charged,

 

Subtotal $322.96 USD

Shipping (14 - 28 Day Delivery) $79.98 USD

Tax (Standard Rate 20.0%) $80.60 USD

Total $483.54 USD

For backpacks, I think the following tariffs would apply for import to the UK. You might want to check if you can get money back from the UK. I got everything back when I contacted them regarding my order. I described the whole story earlier in this thread.

 

https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/4202921100?country=CA

 

In case you're in Northern Ireland, the following might apply.

 

https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/xi/commodities/4202921100?country=CA

[wgaca]

3 hours ago, Stonelesscutter said:

For backpacks, I think the following tariffs would apply for import to the UK. You might want to check if you can get money back from the UK. I got everything back when I contacted them regarding my order. I described the whole story earlier in this thread.

 

https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/4202921100?country=CA

 

In case you're in Northern Ireland, the following might apply.

 

https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/xi/commodities/4202921100?country=CA

They charged me only 4 pounds for import duties.

My point is that LTT is charging me 20% tax and parcelforce is charging me 20% tax as well.

[Stonelesscutter]

10 hours ago, wgaca said:

They charged me only 4 pounds for import duties.

My point is that LTT is charging me 20% tax and parcelforce is charging me 20% tax as well.

They still haven't found a way to implement when to charge and not to charge VAT apparently. It's not a simple thing. They'll sort you out no problem at the support. Might just take a few days before they get around to you.

[Billbrown1982]

Found this old thread which has been extremely helpful to me when the same thing happened to me this month.

Nearly £1k of lttstore stuff ordered. Got sent in 2 seperate parcels, backpack & 2 screwdrivers - straight through no charges

The rest of the order however.

Customs Duty £35.69
VAT £66.62
Clearance Fee £12

Now in LTT's credit, within 24 hours of me emailing them the VAT had been refunded. Which is great and all but they seem to want to wash their hands of the rest as "all import charges are down to the customer" 

I've just sent a rather long email to them because I think at this point they are taking the p a bit. Its been over 2 years for this VAT issue to still be a thing and the couriers are still screwing up at least a year after the OP's post.

I'm totally ok with paying what needs to be paid, but paying stuff that shouldn't be paid because of someone elses mistake? Not fair. LTT need to have a serious word with their couriers to stop doing this and the store VAT thing needs to be fixed, otherwise its going to put people off from buying in the future.

So i'm still down £47.69 and now I have to go through the rigmarole of filling out forms and sending it off to HRMC. Its just a pita.

[Billbrown1982]

Final update from me. Just got a refund from border force of £41.87 so I've ended the game down £5.82 - which I can live with. 

LTT support never replied to my email. Very disappointing there. As good as the merch actually turned out to be, I won't be buying from them again.

Shame.

[Adam Pilolla]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:57 AM, Billbrown1982 said:

Found this old thread which has been extremely helpful to me when the same thing happened to me this month.

Nearly £1k of lttstore stuff ordered. Got sent in 2 seperate parcels, backpack & 2 screwdrivers - straight through no charges

The rest of the order however.

Customs Duty £35.69
VAT £66.62
Clearance Fee £12

Now in LTT's credit, within 24 hours of me emailing them the VAT had been refunded. Which is great and all but they seem to want to wash their hands of the rest as "all import charges are down to the customer" 

I've just sent a rather long email to them because I think at this point they are taking the p a bit. Its been over 2 years for this VAT issue to still be a thing and the couriers are still screwing up at least a year after the OP's post.

I'm totally ok with paying what needs to be paid, but paying stuff that shouldn't be paid because of someone elses mistake? Not fair. LTT need to have a serious word with their couriers to stop doing this and the store VAT thing needs to be fixed, otherwise its going to put people off from buying in the future.

So i'm still down £47.69 and now I have to go through the rigmarole of filling out forms and sending it off to HRMC. Its just a pita.

Sorry to hear that you were double-taxed. This is caused by an issue with our store's tax assessment software that is entirely outside of our control, but we are continuing to work with our software vendors to reach a resolution to this as quickly as possible.

 

That said, unfortunately you do have to pay customs/duty fees irrespective of the double-taxation issue. VAT and Duty are two entirely separate categories of fees, and duty is always due on any items imported to the UK in consignments valued above £135. I can't give you legal advice, but I wouldn't recommend pursuing a refund of those fees from your government because it's very unlikely that you will be successful, since those fees appear to have been applied correctly. (EDIT: Just saw your follow-up post where you mentioned having been refunded. That's great! But I wouldn't expect that in the future; it seems to me like you just got very lucky in this case.) If you want to avoid duty fees in the future, you should ensure that anything you buy from abroad (any store, not just ours) doesn't exceed £135.

 

We have a breakdown of what types of fees you can expect when ordering from us here, if that is of any interest to you. I hope this helps!

[Billbrown1982]

On 6/19/2023 at 6:20 PM, Adam Pilolla said:

Sorry to hear that you were double-taxed. This is caused by an issue with our store's tax assessment software that is entirely outside of our control, but we are continuing to work with our software vendors to reach a resolution to this as quickly as possible.

 

That said, unfortunately you do have to pay customs/duty fees irrespective of the double-taxation issue. VAT and Duty are two entirely separate categories of fees, and duty is always due on any items imported to the UK in consignments valued above £135. I can't give you legal advice, but I wouldn't recommend pursuing a refund of those fees from your government because it's very unlikely that you will be successful, since those fees appear to have been applied correctly. (EDIT: Just saw your follow-up post where you mentioned having been refunded. That's great! But I wouldn't expect that in the future; it seems to me like you just got very lucky in this case.) If you want to avoid duty fees in the future, you should ensure that anything you buy from abroad (any store, not just ours) doesn't exceed £135.

 

We have a breakdown of what types of fees you can expect when ordering from us here, if that is of any interest to you. I hope this helps!

Adam, thank you for your reply but unfortunately you have truly missed the point, a point I tried to explain in my last reply to support which sadly went ignored.

In the hopes that this can at least reach someone with the ability to put a higher priority on fixing this issue and stop alienating UK buyers, I will try one more time to explain the issue here as I have been a long time follower of LTT and really believe in you, but your letting me down here big time.

You state, as did LTT support, that all duty & tax fees are payable by the buyer, which is normal, I totally get that.

However.

I purchased goods from a Canadian supplier (you guys) and goods that were made IN Canada. This means they are subject to the "UK - Canada Trade continuity act" which means goods of ANY VALUE (not just below £135) can be imported DUTY FREE. Feel free to correct me on this but as far as I'm aware, nothing has changed in this regard.

I paid VAT at checkout. Which can not be avoided and MUST be paid on all goods imported into the UK. 

I paid a higher shipping cost than I would normally, because I knew the goods were coming from Canada. It is what it is.

However, because you either were not supposed to charge me the VAT or because you didn't communicate that correctly to UK customs, it was flagged as unpaid VAT on arrival. You say this is being looked at as quickly as possible, but respectfully this has been going on for nearly 2 years at this point. Hardly seems a priority.

The courier that you used is also routing parcels through Germany, which is not that strange in its own right but they are mismanaging the imports and allowing duty to be charged as if the parcels came from Germany, NOT from Canada.

So, when the parcel finally landed on my doorstep I had a bill for VAT (Already paid at checkout) DUTY (Supposed to be exempt) and the couriers charges for letting me know how much I had to pay.

LTT refunded the VAT.

The Duty was refunded by uk borderforce, not due to luck as you seem to think, but its because border force looked at the parcel, saw that it actually came from Canada and not Germany and refunded me accordingly.

This still left me out of pocket due to the courier charges, which wouldn't have had to have been paid IF everything had gone as it was supposed to and it had been a straight forward delivery. Not to mention the hassle of emailing you, sending letters by post to uk borderforce and having to spend time digging through forums and internet posts to find out this information in the first place.

I sincerely hope someone takes a serious look at this and makes it a priority to get sorted. Granted the UK is a small fish in a large pond, but none the less, its hardly fair.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

1 hour ago, Billbrown1982 said:

Adam, thank you for your reply but unfortunately you have truly missed the point, a point I tried to explain in my last reply to support which sadly went ignored.

In the hopes that this can at least reach someone with the ability to put a higher priority on fixing this issue and stop alienating UK buyers, I will try one more time to explain the issue here as I have been a long time follower of LTT and really believe in you, but your letting me down here big time.

You state, as did LTT support, that all duty & tax fees are payable by the buyer, which is normal, I totally get that.

However.

I purchased goods from a Canadian supplier (you guys) and goods that were made IN Canada. This means they are subject to the "UK - Canada Trade continuity act" which means goods of ANY VALUE (not just below £135) can be imported DUTY FREE. Feel free to correct me on this but as far as I'm aware, nothing has changed in this regard.

I paid VAT at checkout. Which can not be avoided and MUST be paid on all goods imported into the UK. 

I paid a higher shipping cost than I would normally, because I knew the goods were coming from Canada. It is what it is.

However, because you either were not supposed to charge me the VAT or because you didn't communicate that correctly to UK customs, it was flagged as unpaid VAT on arrival. You say this is being looked at as quickly as possible, but respectfully this has been going on for nearly 2 years at this point. Hardly seems a priority.

The courier that you used is also routing parcels through Germany, which is not that strange in its own right but they are mismanaging the imports and allowing duty to be charged as if the parcels came from Germany, NOT from Canada.

So, when the parcel finally landed on my doorstep I had a bill for VAT (Already paid at checkout) DUTY (Supposed to be exempt) and the couriers charges for letting me know how much I had to pay.

LTT refunded the VAT.

The Duty was refunded by uk borderforce, not due to luck as you seem to think, but its because border force looked at the parcel, saw that it actually came from Canada and not Germany and refunded me accordingly.

This still left me out of pocket due to the courier charges, which wouldn't have had to have been paid IF everything had gone as it was supposed to and it had been a straight forward delivery. Not to mention the hassle of emailing you, sending letters by post to uk borderforce and having to spend time digging through forums and internet posts to find out this information in the first place.

I sincerely hope someone takes a serious look at this and makes it a priority to get sorted. Granted the UK is a small fish in a large pond, but none the less, its hardly fair.

 

I have to agree, it was a lot of extra effort looking into what customs charges would be applicable, and contacting borderforce and all that. Aside from going to the post office, I think I also had to print something, which I hardly ever do. It was cumbersome, and it shouldn't be that way.

[Adam Pilolla]

3 hours ago, Billbrown1982 said:

Adam, thank you for your reply but unfortunately you have truly missed the point, a point I tried to explain in my last reply to support which sadly went ignored.

In the hopes that this can at least reach someone with the ability to put a higher priority on fixing this issue and stop alienating UK buyers, I will try one more time to explain the issue here as I have been a long time follower of LTT and really believe in you, but your letting me down here big time.

You state, as did LTT support, that all duty & tax fees are payable by the buyer, which is normal, I totally get that.

However.

I purchased goods from a Canadian supplier (you guys) and goods that were made IN Canada. This means they are subject to the "UK - Canada Trade continuity act" which means goods of ANY VALUE (not just below £135) can be imported DUTY FREE. Feel free to correct me on this but as far as I'm aware, nothing has changed in this regard.

Based on my understanding, this is not correct for two reasons:

 

1. Free trade agreements like the one you're citing here just fundamentally do not work this way. While they do eliminate duty fees in many cases, it is not a blanket exemption of duty fees in all cases.

 

2. Our products are designed in Canada but, with few exceptions, not manufactured there, and thus do not under CETA rules (and UKCTCA, which just implements the provisions of CETA post-Brexit) qualify as being of "Canadian origin."

 

We have a very skilled (and expanding) accounting team that has explored (and is continuing to explore!) all of these options in great detail, so even if I'm not getting the above exactly right, you can trust that we are exercising all options available to us. With sincerity, your feedback is being heard loud and clear, but these limitations as we understand them today will prevent us from offering you a duty-free shopping experience for the foreseeable future.
 

Quote

 

However, because you either were not supposed to charge me the VAT or because you didn't communicate that correctly to UK customs, it was flagged as unpaid VAT on arrival. You say this is being looked at as quickly as possible, but respectfully this has been going on for nearly 2 years at this point. Hardly seems a priority.

 

 

I totally get why it might appear that way. The reality is, however, that the cause of the double-VAT issue is almost entirely outside of our ability to control (accounting tells me that it's due to a bug in the software that calculates VAT on our store, which is as-yet not fixed and for which no reasonable alternative exists right now), and we are not the only business encountering such problems. I've gone into a little more detail about this elsewhere on this forum, if you're interested and feel like peeping my post history.

 

None of what I'm saying here should be interpreted as an excuse, of course. We're as frustrated as you are about issues like these. But please know that it's not for lack of caring.