Mining question... ASICs vs GPU?

[Caliber Mengsk]

This is pretty much entirely a curiosity question. I decided to do mining this year during the winter instead of folding@home, more as an interest in what it is and such. I still know VERY little (I am using nice hash at the moment, but from what I've been finding recently that may be sketchier than it first sounded, but either way, I have done so little I haven't even set up a proper wallet at coinbase or anything yet). 

 

My question is, if ASICs are supposed to be so much more efficient/fast/cost effective, why does it seem miners are more interested in GPUs? Is it a supply/demand thing where there aren't enough ASICs to go around? Is it because GPUs will have a better turn around time/value? Do ASICs consume more power per hash? Is it cause they only work for mostly one type of coin?

 

I'd just do a simple google search, but it seems that when it comes to everything crypto, everything is almost always "outdated" a few weeks after it was relevant and the talk of the town. But I looked out of curiosity and saw that some ASICs have 14TH/s where as my rtx 3090 is only able to do like 100MH/s. I mean, that's 14 times faster and around a third to half the cost of a current market 3090. Are ASICs just a bad investment now?

 

EDIT: To add to it, my main curiosity is that in theory, at 14TH/s, for a ~$1000 ASIC, that'd mean it'd be paid off in like what, 2 months? Where as a 3090 at todays prices would result in a 2 year pay off?

[Levent]

2 minutes ago, Caliber Mengsk said:

why does it seem miners are more interested in GPUs?

Even before mining boom of 2020-2021, wait times on ASICs were weeks AND you had to be extremely lucky to order in the first place. I cant imagine mining boom and current chip shortage making it any better.

[YoungBlade]

An ASIC is an Application Specific Integrated Circuit. That means that it can literally do only that one thing and nothing else, so an ASIC built for mining a specific crypto currency, while very powerful and efficient at that, can only ever be used for that one currency. Basically all mining ASICs are for Bitcoin, and GPU mining for Bitcoin is dead because ASICs came around - you can't compete with 14TH/s with even a whole rack of graphics cards.

 

Ethereum, along with the rest of the currencies currently being mined, do not have widely available ASICs. If ASICs for Ethereum were widely available, then people would switch to them, but they aren't.

[Caliber Mengsk]

1 minute ago, Levent said:

Even before mining boom of 2020-2021, wait times on ASICs were weeks AND you had to be extremely lucky to order in the first place. I cant imagine mining boom and current chip shortage making it any better.

Yeah, but... that still doesn't make sense. Say you add a month to getting the ASIC (which if you don't mind used, can be found to shipped in like a week), that still only adds a month for an ROI, two for a long wait. That's still only 3-4 months to start making money vs almost 2 years. I could see it when the GPU prices were lower to a point, since it would mean lower barrier to entry, but it seems ASICs are cheaper than GPUs right now and get 10-14 times the performance. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Caliber Mengsk]

5 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

An ASIC is an Application Specific Integrated Circuit. That means that it can literally do only that one thing and nothing else, so an ASIC built for mining a specific crypto currency, while very powerful and efficient at that, can only ever be used for that one currency. Basically all mining ASICs are for Bitcoin, and GPU mining for Bitcoin is dead because ASICs came around - you can't compete with 14TH/s with even a whole rack of graphics cards.

 

Ethereum, along with the rest of the currencies currently being mined, do not have widely available ASICs. If ASICs for Ethereum were widely available, then people would switch to them, but they aren't.

So it is just because of how specific it is then and just that bitcoin may not be worth the investment because it could be dead any time pretty much, and another coin may pop up as the one to get an ASIC for because it would have a longer life. That's what I was assuming it was, but the turn around is still not a huge risk. But I guess the people doing full on bitcoin mining are buying like 100 units, not just one, so it's a much larger gamble then spending 1k to potentially loose out on.

[IkeaGnome]

17 minutes ago, Caliber Mengsk said:

14TH/s, for a ~$1000 ASIC

That price seems too good to be true. 

Also, don't forget about power consumption. 1 S9i at 14 t/h is a 1320W unit.

At 120V, that's 11 amps.

[Eigenvektor]

5 minutes ago, Caliber Mengsk said:

Yeah, but... that still doesn't make sense. Say you add a month to getting the ASIC (which if you don't mind used, can be found to shipped in like a week), that still only adds a month for an ROI, two for a long wait. That's still only 3-4 months to start making money vs almost 2 years. I could see it when the GPU prices were lower to a point, since it would mean lower barrier to entry, but it seems ASICs are cheaper than GPUs right now and get 10-14 times the performance. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I think there are mainly two issues: Wait time for ASICs can be extreme (more like months rather than weeks) and their prices are (or used to be) higher than those of a GPU. By the time you receive your miner, it is most likely outdated, meaning other miners are going to be faster and more efficient.

 

Buying a used miner isn't ideal for pretty much the same reason: it can't compete in terms of hash rate with current models, so you're going to pay much more money (electricity) for less profits.

 

You need to keep in mind: You only receive a coin, if you're the first one to find a particular hash. Which means you want to be as fast as possible. Which is why most smaller miners typically join pools that work together to mine coins and then share the profits. Otherwise the chances of mining a coin with a single GPU are basically zero.

[Kilrah]

20 minutes ago, Caliber Mengsk said:

(which if you don't mind used, can be found to shipped in like a week)

If an ASIC miner is on the used market it's there because it's not worth using anymore, the seller is just hoping someone will fail to recognise that and fall for it. 

 

People just get what they can.

[YoungBlade]

1 hour ago, Caliber Mengsk said:

So it is just because of how specific it is then and just that bitcoin may not be worth the investment because it could be dead any time pretty much, and another coin may pop up as the one to get an ASIC for because it would have a longer life. That's what I was assuming it was, but the turn around is still not a huge risk. But I guess the people doing full on bitcoin mining are buying like 100 units, not just one, so it's a much larger gamble then spending 1k to potentially loose out on.

Hashrates between the various crypto currencies are not comparable at all. 14TH/s on the Bitcoin network isn't going to get you as much money as even just 40MH/s on the Ethereum network. It looks like, at the moment, 14TH/s earns you around $3 a day in on the Bitcoin network. At $1000, it would take you nearly a year to earn that back assuming current profitability stays the same.

[Killmails]

On 1/19/2022 at 1:01 PM, IkeaGnome said:

That price seems too good to be true. 

Also, don't forget about power consumption. 1 S9i at 14 t/h is a 1320W unit.

At 120V, that's 11 amps.

That price/hashrate is for a Bitmain S9 or equivalent ASIC. And that price is a ripoff, real price for those is ~$300. As well as S9 and similar models are not profitable under ~$60K / free electricity.

 

As for OPs question

  

On 1/19/2022 at 12:45 PM, Caliber Mengsk said:

EDIT: To add to it, my main curiosity is that in theory, at 14TH/s, for a ~$1000 ASIC, that'd mean it'd be paid off in like what, 2 months? Where as a 3090 at todays prices would result in a 2 year pay off?

Check Asic Miner Value for more realistic profitability calculation. If you were considering an S9 - do not, I've sold the last of mine in late summer last year.