Help! Strange buzzing sound from Studio monitors.

[KWelz]

I recently decided to upgrade my audio on my PC.  I only do gaming and basic content consumption on the system so I didn't see a reason to go all out.   

 

I picked up a set of Mackie CRX3s and one of their 8 inch Subs

https://mackie.com/products/cr-x-creative-reference-multimedia-monitors

 

The problem is that when I have everything hooked up I get a buzzing noise from the monitors.   

 

I am using the built in output on my Crosshair Dark Hero board.  

I am using the provided 3.5 to RCA plug to go to the Sub and then the provided RCAs to the monitors.

Things I have tried:

1. Bypassing the Subwoofer and going directly from the board to the Monitors = no buzzing
2. Connecting via Bluetooth = no buzzing
3. Connecting to my iPhone via both Bluetooth and the 3.5 to RCA connector = no buzzing.  
4. 2 sets of 2.5 speakers connected directly to the board = no buzzing.  

So with all these tests I am assuming that either

A: I am screwing something up.  This is the most likely.  

Or

B The onboard audio doesn't support this setup.  Which I find strange since this isn't really a taxing setup.  

 

However I don't know much about audio at all so I am begging you all for help.  

 

If I need to pick up a DAC I don't mind, but would like to keep it fairly inexpensive since I am not doing content creation or anything here.  

[Enderman]

Motherboard audio sucks and has tons of EMI.

Get an audio interface like a scarlett solo with balanced TRS outputs and you will have no noise.

[creesch]

13 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Motherboard audio sucks and has tons of EMI.

Get an audio interface like a scarlett solo with balanced TRS outputs and you will have no noise.

Yeah sorry but this is outright misinformation. Onboard audio of recent years is often of good quality. In addition your are now recommending an audio interface with functionality that @KWelzdoesn't need (all the inputs). If they were to go down this route they would benefit much more from a dedicated DAC+AMP rather than an audio interface. Also if you look at the description they give this likely wouldn't solve their issue given the symptoms. 

 

@KWelzit sounds like you are having grounding issues somewhere and specifically in the subwoofer. I assume the subwoofer is powered? Is the plug grounded and if that is the case did you plug it into a grounded socket? (Not sure if applicable to the US, here it is possible to plug devices with ground plugs into ungrounded sockets). Same goes for your pc. 

[Enderman]

14 minutes ago, creesch said:

Yeah sorry but this is outright misinformation. Onboard audio of recent years is often of good quality. In addition your are now recommending an audio interface with functionality that @KWelzdoesn't need (all the inputs). If they were to go down this route they would benefit much more from a dedicated DAC+AMP rather than an audio interface. Also if you look at the description they give this likely wouldn't solve their issue given the symptoms. 

 

@KWelzit sounds like you are having grounding issues somewhere and specifically in the subwoofer. I assume the subwoofer is powered? Is the plug grounded and if that is the case did you plug it into a grounded socket? (Not sure if applicable to the US, here it is possible to plug devices with ground plugs into ungrounded sockets). Same goes for your pc. 

I've used studio monitors before and every time they are plugged into an analog output on a computer there is noise, even if they are properly grounded, on the same circuit, on different circuits, etc.

 

You need a proper audio interface with balanced outputs.

 

It's very possible the EMI is caused by a grounding issue, which is easy to test by plugging a phone or laptop into the 3.5mm jack while not being connected to an outlet.

The problem is that a PC always needs to be connected to an outlet, so you can't get rid of the EMI.

 

PS- the manual also recommend using balanced inputs specifically to solve this issue.

[creesch]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

I've used studio monitors before and every time they are plugged into an analog output on a computer there is noise, even if they are properly grounded, on the same circuit, on different circuits, etc.

These specific monitors are as far as I can tell powered monitors with a build in amp and all that. They aren't unpowered studio monitors I suspect you are referring to. 

 

Quote

It's very possible the EMI is caused by a grounding issue, which is easy to test by plugging a phone or laptop into the 3.5mm jack while not being connected to an outlet.

The problem is that a PC always needs to be connected to an outlet, so you can't get rid of the EMI.

Which they did actually test and confirms it is likely a grounding issue. If the socket they have plugged their PC in or the powered subwoofer in isn't properly grounded that can already cause the issue and is fairly easy to remedy without spending over $100 for a scarlet solo. Except that they do not need a scarlet solo. 

 

Quote

You need a proper audio interface with balanced outputs.

Again, they don't need an audio interface. Audio interfaces are primarily intended to provide a recording interface with monitoring capability. Yes they work fine as a DAC+AMP combo most of the time but that still makes them overkill. Considering that the monitors+subwoofer @KWelzhas are powered so already have an AMP build at most what they would need is a DAC and frankly if they can't solve the grounding issue then a simple usb soundcard for at most $30 would likely already give them a more than satisfactory result. 

 

[KWelz]

I didn’t think about the grounding.  
 

the PC, Monitors, and Sub are all plugged into an APC that is connected to a properly grounded outlet.  I know it is properly grounded because I ran the lines myself about a year ago.

 

The Amp uses a standard NEMA C13 to 15P 3 pole (grounded) cable just like a PC.   However the monitors have a built in 2 pole.   I will try a few things when I get back home.  

[Enderman]

49 minutes ago, creesch said:

These specific monitors are as far as I can tell powered monitors with a build in amp and all that. They aren't unpowered studio monitors I suspect you are referring to. 

Nope. Behringer Nekkst K8s.

I don't think I've ever seen an unpowered studio monitor, they're pretty much all active.

 

49 minutes ago, creesch said:

Which they did actually test and confirms it is likely a grounding issue. If the socket they have plugged their PC in or the powered subwoofer in isn't properly grounded that can already cause the issue and is fairly easy to remedy without spending over $100 for a scarlet solo. Except that they do not need a scarlet solo. 

As far as I can tell, the ground loop EMI noise that happens is because of the grounding. Certain audio devices called a ground lift are made specifically to break this loop.

This isn't a great solution though because grounding exists for a reason.

 

49 minutes ago, creesch said:

Again, they don't need an audio interface. Audio interfaces are primarily intended to provide a recording interface with monitoring capability. Yes they work fine as a DAC+AMP combo most of the time but that still makes them overkill. Considering that the monitors+subwoofer @KWelzhas are powered so already have an AMP build at most what they would need is a DAC and frankly if they can't solve the grounding issue then a simple usb soundcard for at most $30 would likely already give them a more than satisfactory result. 

I recommended the scarlett solo because it's an affordable entry level interface with excellent quality and specs.

Behringer also has some good ones for cheaper, but not at the same quality level.

 

Usually if you just look for a standalone DAC you end up with either

1) something that has unbalanced outputs

2) some cheap chinese DAC

3) some very expensive audiophile DAC

 

A USB soundcard will not have balanced audio output, which is not going to remove the noise, since the USB sound card itself needs USB power.

[KWelz]

I checked everything for ground and it seems fine.  Everything is plugged into the same UPC, I even tried going directly to the wall with just the PC and the sound equipment.  Still no joy.   

 

The noise actually changes if I move the mouse, etc.  

This is what it sounds like.  

 

 

[LlF]

you need something like a behringer hum destroyer. or any ground loop isolator should help

[creesch]

7 hours ago, KWelz said:

I checked everything for ground and it seems fine.  Everything is plugged into the same UPC, I even tried going directly to the wall with just the PC and the sound equipment.  Still no joy.   

 

The noise actually changes if I move the mouse, etc.  

This is what it sounds like.  

 

 

 

That is pretty bad indeed, I had a whole reply typed up but unfortunely my browser decided that this was a good time to crash. I'll try to retype as much as possible. 

 

Some things you can still try: 

 

• Move the speakers away from the computer and see if this reduces the noise. It is rare these days but computer and poorly shielded speakers used to be an issue in the past, certainly with the big old CRT screens using unshielded speakers would also give you a lot of interference. You mentioned that using your mouse had an effect which is why I figured you might try this. 
• Try plugging in the speakers into a different socket entirely see if that works. In fact you mentioned they are plugged into your APC which actually might be the root cause of your grounding issue as this puts everything on the same grounding circuit and wire. Generally speaking there also aren't that many good reasons to have speakers plugged into your APC anyway. To be clear, PC still in APC speakers not in APC
• Just to double check, you plugged the 3.5mm jack in the lime port on your motherboard (see the last screenshot from the motherboard manual)? 
• Checking the manual for your speakers there seem to be three input options. Did you try both of the unbalanced options (#3 and #4 in the screenshot below)? 

 

If none of the above works there are a few options you can explore that cost money: 

 

• The most expensive option: Use a DAC or audio interface with balanced output as your speakers do seem to support it. The scarlet solo @Endermansuggested would be a solid option as far as audio interfaces go and if you really need balanced outputs. The added bonus for using an audio interface is that it also provides a quality XLR microphone input, if you also use your pc for meetings or gaming with friends this might be a beneficial for you. Simply because a microphone plugged into the 3.5mm port of your motherboard likely would suffer from similar interference. However it isn't cheap as the lowest price I can find a scarlet solo for is around $115. But you would then also need to buy a XLR microphone and cable, etc. So it only is a bonus if you don't mind spending that money and investing the effort. 
• A ground loop isolator can be found for as cheap as $10  or slightly more expensive at $25 it might be worthwhile exploring however at this price range it is my understanding that isolators do change the sound often (Specifically volume and bass) and it might not work at all. 
• Go for a unbalanced dac or cheap usb soundcard. Audiophiles will scoff at the options I am about to suggest and if you are really dealing with a ground loop issue it might indeed not be a solution. However the simple fact is that if Asus did cheap out on the audio chip it might just be poorly isolated causing all components around it to be the issue. If have often enough seen this to not discount it out of hand. You might even already have a dac if you have purchased a phone in the last few years that did come with a usb-c to 3.5mm dongle as some of those are actually a DAC. If not there are a variety of options that are fairly like this one or  this one (if you just want to test this) or slightly more reputable the creative sound blaster play! 3 or the newer 4 variant.

 

 

 

[ShearMe]

A cheap optical DAC would also kill a ground loop

[creesch]

39 minutes ago, ShearMe said:

A cheap optical DAC would also kill a ground loop

I completely overlooked that toslink output on the motherboard. It is a shame their speakers don't have a toslink input but yeah getting a toslink to 3.5mm jack or to RCA DAC would also be a possibility.

[KWelz]

6 hours ago, creesch said:

• Move the speakers away from the computer and see if this reduces the noise. It is rare these days but computer and poorly shielded speakers used to be an issue in the past, certainly with the big old CRT screens using unshielded speakers would also give you a lot of interference. You mentioned that using your mouse had an effect which is why I figured you might try this. 

Sadly no Joy on this.  

6 hours ago, creesch said:

• Try plugging in the speakers into a different socket entirely see if that works. In fact you mentioned they are plugged into your APC which actually might be the root cause of your grounding issue as this puts everything on the same grounding circuit and wire. Generally speaking there also aren't that many good reasons to have speakers plugged into your APC anyway. To be clear, PC still in APC speakers not in APC

I actually already tried this.   Plugged the computer, Sub, and speakers directly into the wall in the same outlet.  Even removed everything else from that particular run.  So the only thing connected to that breaker were these devices.  

6 hours ago, creesch said:

• Just to double check, you plugged the 3.5mm jack in the lime port on your motherboard (see the last screenshot from the motherboard manual)? 

Correct it is plugged into the standard audio out.   

6 hours ago, creesch said:

• Checking the manual for your speakers there seem to be three input options. Did you try both of the unbalanced options (#3 and #4 in the screenshot below)? 

Yep.  I tried both unbalanced options and even the TRS balanced input.   

6 hours ago, creesch said:

 

If none of the above works there are a few options you can explore that cost money: 

 

• The most expensive option: Use a DAC or audio interface with balanced output as your speakers do seem to support it. The scarlet solo @Endermansuggested would be a solid option as far as audio interfaces go and if you really need balanced outputs. The added bonus for using an audio interface is that it also provides a quality XLR microphone input, if you also use your pc for meetings or gaming with friends this might be a beneficial for you. Simply because a microphone plugged into the 3.5mm port of your motherboard likely would suffer from similar interference. However it isn't cheap as the lowest price I can find a scarlet solo for is around $115. But you would then also need to buy a XLR microphone and cable, etc. So it only is a bonus if you don't mind spending that money and investing the effort. 
• A ground loop isolator can be found for as cheap as $10  or slightly more expensive at $25 it might be worthwhile exploring however at this price range it is my understanding that isolators do change the sound often (Specifically volume and bass) and it might not work at all. 
• Go for a unbalanced dac or cheap usb soundcard. Audiophiles will scoff at the options I am about to suggest and if you are really dealing with a ground loop issue it might indeed not be a solution. However the simple fact is that if Asus did cheap out on the audio chip it might just be poorly isolated causing all components around it to be the issue. If have often enough seen this to not discount it out of hand. You might even already have a dac if you have purchased a phone in the last few years that did come with a usb-c to 3.5mm dongle as some of those are actually a DAC. If not there are a variety of options that are fairly like this one or  this one (if you just want to test this) or slightly more reputable the creative sound blaster play! 3 or the newer 4 variant.

 

I think I am going to pick up the Scarlett Solo and try it out.  It is as cheap as much of the "gamer" DACs and sound cards out there and honestly I hate gamer marketing for those kinds of things.  Only other one I may get is a Sound Blaster X3.  Going to run out to Microcenter tomorrow and see my options.   

 

I am kind of at a loss to see what else to try.   I may grab a long power strip and try a completely different electrical run.  But I don't know if that will make any difference. 

 

[KWelz]

Picked up the Scarlett today.  It fixed the issue!   

 

Thanks guys!