Seasonic seems to be the most hated PSU brand here... then there are nice discounts going on.

[MarkCaplan]

I need a 750 - 850 PSU immediately because my Antec truepower trio 650W PSU refuses to turn on. (I don't need 750W right now but I will get RTX3070 as soon as it is available at reasonable price... currently using GTX1070)

 

Then I see Focus GM 850 is only 70 USD after mail in rebate.

 

SuperFlower LEADEX III gold 850 is 90 USD after store giftcard 

 

Corsair RM850x is 120 USD after applying coupon.

 

I am inclined towards GM for obvious reason. Is Seasonic Focus really so bad that we need to avoid it even when it is this cheaper? I don't think I can buy any decent 850W PSU for 70 bucks.

Do you think I should spend 20 more for SuperFlower? 

[Forleb]

What are you referring to? Linus himself and a majority of us can attest that Seasonic is a staple in the PSU market. Unless they pulled a Gigabyte in the last 2 weeks and I didn't hear about it, I'm a bit confused.

[MarkCaplan]

3 minutes ago, Forleb said:

What are you referring to? Linus himself and a majority of us can attest that Seasonic is a staple in the PSU market. Unless they pulled a Gigabyte in the last 2 weeks and I didn't hear about it, I'm a bit confused.

If you search "Seasonic" and read threads between late 2019 and now, which I just did, you would understand why I got this impression.

[iiNNeX]

I would never cheap out on a PSU, and while Seasonic is a top brand the Focus series have been quite problematic for people (according to online reviews). Can you get a Corsair or EVGA Gold/Platinum unit for decent money where you are?

[motomat86]

1 hour ago, iiNNeX said:

I would never cheap out on a PSU, and while Seasonic is a top brand the Focus series have been quite problematic for people (according to online reviews). Can you get a Corsair or EVGA Gold/Platinum unit for decent money where you are?

 

dosnt corsair just put a sticker on seasonic psu's?

[Forleb]

I still don't know what you're looking at... the threads I'm seeing either focus on quite old units or highlight very common issues like Ampere's momentary nuclear fission. We're entering an age where TDP has become very arbitrary, and Seasonic is far from the only manufacturer that can't just magically adapt to it.

 

What is the rest of your system spec?

[--SID--]

31 minutes ago, motomat86 said:

 

dosnt corsair just put a sticker on seasonic psu's?

No, they just pulled it off because of issues Seasonic don't want or can't resolve. RIP AX Titanium.

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, motomat86 said:

 

dosnt corsair just put a sticker on seasonic psu's?

People seem to have this misconception that OEM (manufacturer) producing units for a partner (brand name) is just a "slap a fancy label on this unit off the shelf". It's not that way with any reputable brand like Corsair. Seasonic has the manufacturing knowhow and Corsair walks to them and hands over the design schematics and say "make me this". So it's Corsair spec's made by Seasonic.

 

Business may involve usage of existing model, usually for lower end models where Corsair may say "we like design of this one, but we'd like modular cables". Or we'd like to make this and this component better. Or we want to use our fans in them. With enough volume, manufacturers can do anything for you.

 

It's similarly silly to put down companies that make PSU's for brands like Corsair or any other name brand and don't have great track record for their own. Like FSP for example. You'll never see one say "FSP or SuperFlower have best PSU's". But they mostly make cheaper OEM stuff. It'll be reliable for what it is and it'll run systems for years and all be within specs. But they have the know how and the manufacturing lines. If you want them to make you best PSU possible, they'll make you one. It's just that it'll cost more. Like all enthusiast PSU's do.

 

Besides, Seasonic has been known to make excellent PSU's. So excellent they don't need flashy commercials or paid ads. Just look at Seasonic and Linus relationship. It's always like "yeah yeah whatever, here's a sponsorship for you to do something fun and just briefly mention us". You need to have a special confidence to play it that way. Or superior products. Even if they just slapped Corsair over Seasonic, I'd be fine. Coz Corsair is also known to have good R&D and control over their PSU's.

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, motomat86 said:

dosnt corsair just put a sticker on seasonic psu's?

Currently none of Corsair's PSUs are made by Seasonic, and I wouldn't expect any new ones any time soon. There were a couple in the past that were with the most recent being the AX850/AX1000 Titanium, however that has been discontinued as per SID's comment above. Also a much older version of the AX Gold was made by Seasonic (10 years ago) and the very old HX units (15 years ago). Corsair works with mostly CWT, Great Wall, and HEC for their power supplies, as well as Flextronics for their flagship AX1600i.

 

5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

People seem to have this misconception that OEM (manufacturer) producing units for a partner (brand name) is just a "slap a fancy label on this unit off the shelf". It's not that way with any reputable brand like Corsair. Seasonic has the manufacturing knowhow and Corsair walks to them and hands over the design schematics and say "make me this". So it's Corsair spec's made by Seasonic.

 

Business may involve usage of existing model, usually for lower end models where Corsair may say "we like design of this one, but we'd like modular cables". Or we'd like to make this and this component better. Or we want to use our fans in them. With enough volume, manufacturers can do anything for you.

See above.

While that may be true for other OEMs, Seasonic is well known for refusing to make changes to their designs. It's basically "You either buy what we sell or too bad". The best thing Asus got out of them was a heatsink with the Asus logo on it which actually performs worse. Seasonic doesn't want other brands to sell better versions of Seasonic PSUs, nor do they want to complicate production lines by making any changes other than the sticker.

For companies that don't have their own PSU design team they don't care if they're just buying a Seasonic PSU with their own logo on it (eg. NZXT).

 

 

Seasonic PSUs are okay, they're definitely not fire hazards. I don't think they deserve some of the hate they get around here but I think a lot of it comes from people who are frustrated with the people who don't know what they're talking about going around saying "Seasonic is the best" because their favourite youtuber recommended it or because someone on Reddit incorrectly said that they make Corsair's PSUs.

They have had issues recently with some of their PSUs from issues with Vega GPUs and now issues with Ampere and new Navi cards, which I've read is caused by noise on the 12V line from high power draw components causing the PSUs to unexpectedly shut off. This means that there's a pretty good reason to recommend other stuff instead of Seasonic units. Their fans/controllers also aren't as good as some other PSUs so can be a bit louder or can develop an annoying ticking noise in the fan motor.

Seasonic PSUs aren't bad but they have had some issues reported with Ampere GPUs and there are usually better PSUs out there for similar prices which makes it hard to recommend them unless other PSUs aren't available or they are cheaper than the alternatives.

 

3 hours ago, MarkCaplan said:

Then I see Focus GM 850 is only 70 USD after mail in rebate.

 

SuperFlower LEADEX III gold 850 is 90 USD after store giftcard 

 

Corsair RM850x is 120 USD after applying coupon.

The Focus GM is probably more in line with a Corsair TXM. The RMx is closer to the Prime Gold series from Seasonic. This is partly the reason for the difference in price.

The Leadex III for $90 is probably a decent deal depending on how annoying it is to go through whatever giftcard or rebate you need to claim it.

 

3 hours ago, MarkCaplan said:

I need a 750 - 850 PSU immediately because my Antec truepower trio 650W PSU refuses to turn on. (I don't need 750W right now but I will get RTX3070 as soon as it is available at reasonable price... currently using GTX1070)

Antec Truepower Trio is ancient. Isn't that 15 years old now? I'm surprised it has lasted this long.

You don't need an 850W PSU for an RTX 3070. The 3070 should consume around 200-250W. Save $20 and grab a 750W PSU instead of the 850W models you listed, though even 750W is more than you need.

 

That's just my 2c.

[RejZoR]

@Spotty

"Some units". Show me a single PSU maker that didn't have issues with at least one series at one point. Hell, any product makers of any kind. There will always be something. Vega was pretty weird back then and RTX 3000 series are as well. My RTX 3080 causes my BeQuiet DarkPower Pro 11 750W to whine like crazy to a point I opened it up, filled all the coils with hot glue and it settled now to a point it's not annoying anymore. Before it was basically unbearable. I had GTX 980 and GTX 1080Ti on it with zero issues.

 

One may say this PSU isn't best of the best, but it was certainly among the best back in the day with high remarks on basically everything.

 

As for explanation, I mentioned Corsair and Seasonic as general examples, not specific to them as far as build and performance goes. I do know you basically can't go wrong with Seasonic or Corsair. Even with cheaper units. Far less than with cheaper units from tons of basically no-name brands that churn out PSU's in hundreds of millions.

[MarkCaplan]

5 hours ago, Forleb said:

What is the rest of your system spec?

intel i9-9700K stock speed

ASUS Prime Z390-p

Corsair 3200/16 set with XMP

EVGA GTX 1070 FTW

SM961 1TB (pulled form some HP workstation)

Seagate 3TB 7200 rpm HDD

Oculus rift 

Antec true power trio 650 (DEAD)

 

2 hours ago, Spotty said:

They have had issues recently with some of their PSUs from issues with Vega GPUs and now issues with Ampere and new Navi cards, which I've read is caused by noise on the 12V line from high power draw components causing the PSUs to unexpectedly shut off. This means that there's a pretty good reason to recommend other stuff instead of Seasonic units. Their fans/controllers also aren't as good as some other PSUs so can be a bit louder or can develop an annoying ticking noise in the fan motor.

Seasonic PSUs aren't bad but they have had some issues reported with Ampere GPUs and there are usually better PSUs out there for similar prices which makes it hard to recommend them unless other PSUs aren't available or they are cheaper than the alternatives.

I thought recent Focus series is clear from the Ampere issue am I wrong? I thought old Focus series and current Prime series are affected?

 

2 hours ago, Spotty said:

The Focus GM is probably more in line with a Corsair TXM. The RMx is closer to the Prime Gold series from Seasonic. This is partly the reason for the difference in price.

The Leadex III for $90 is probably a decent deal depending on how annoying it is to go through whatever giftcard or rebate you need to claim it.

I didn't know Seasonic Focus GM belong to lower "tier" - would that suggest the PSU uses inferior parts? I also noticed GM warranty is only 7 years while other 2 carries 10 yr. How about GM vs GX - what makes them want to cover GM 3 years less than GX?

[MarkCaplan]

2 hours ago, Spotty said:

Antec Truepower Trio is ancient. Isn't that 15 years old now? I'm surprised it has lasted this long.

it has been used continuously for 15 years. Not a single hiccup and died gloriously. Another reason I am slightly biased towards Seasonic but things might have changed.

[Spotty]

37 minutes ago, MarkCaplan said:

I didn't know Seasonic Focus GM belong to lower "tier" - would that suggest the PSU uses inferior parts? I also noticed GM warranty is only 7 years while other 2 carries 10 yr. How about GM vs GX - what makes them want to cover GM 3 years less than GX?

I wouldn't say it's low tier, it's mid tier. It's just that it isn't a direct competitor to the RMx and they're in slightly different price brackets in the market which is part of the reason the RMx is more expensive. The other part of the reason is the $20 mail in rebate and the black friday discount (looks like you're looking at newegg prices) which brings the GM down to $70. Honestly $70 is a pretty good price for the Focus GM 850W if you don't mind dealing with the rebate. If you need something to replace your Antec Trio the Focus GM wouldn't be a bad pick.

 

37 minutes ago, MarkCaplan said:

I thought recent Focus series is clear from the Ampere issue am I wrong? I thought old Focus series and current Prime series are affected?

I haven't kept up to date with what they've been doing for the last few months. I know they fixed the issues they had with the Vega cards a while back.

It shouldn't be a problem for your system if you're looking to add a RTX 3070 to it. I only mentioned the issues they've had in the past few years to respond to the "Why does Seasonic get hate" part of your question.

 

 

41 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

"Some units". Show me a single PSU maker that didn't have issues with at least one series at one point. Hell, any product makers of any kind.

I never said other brands didn't have issues...? OP asked why Seasonic gets flak and I answered their question with some of the reasons why I think people have that opinion. If they asked "Why does Thermaltake PSUs get hate" or "Why does EVGA PSUs get hate" then I would have answered those questions by listing issues with their power supplies, like how thermaltake just re-releases the Smart series PSUs with an RGB fan on them (It's the same doll just wearing a new hat) or how EVGA N1 is an awful PSU that has no right to exist from a reputable brand in 2021. Since you said you can't go wrong with Corsiar I could also mention they've also had their own issues like the recall they had on SF units due to bad thermal pads affecting units produced over a period of a couple of months. OP didn't ask questions about EVGA, Thermaltake, or Corsair though. They asked about Seasonic and I answered them.

[jaslion]

6 hours ago, Forleb said:

I still don't know what you're looking at... the threads I'm seeing either focus on quite old units or highlight very common issues like Ampere's momentary nuclear fission. We're entering an age where TDP has become very arbitrary, and Seasonic is far from the only manufacturer that can't just magically adapt to it.

 

What is the rest of your system spec?

These are the threads of people with good units that are getting their ocp tripped because of the rtx3000 series of cards which seasonic has fixed . The psu's weren't bad or anything just the cards were doing behavior that back in 2018 was not considered normal.

 

Then there is the common post about the seasonic s12 series of psu's. Simply put they are older and shouldn't be used but if you have one they are actually pretty darn solid power supplies just lacking modern protections.

 

These are the threads you see around constantly one is just them protecting your pc too well (and nvidia even made a patch for their cards because of this issue with many psu's that are good) and the other is just using a good psu design for a long time to give a cheap psu that hasn't been manufactured in a while but is still for sale due to abundance of them in stock.

[seon123]

9 minutes ago, jaslion said:

These are the threads of people with good units that are getting their ocp tripped because of the rtx3000 series of cards which seasonic has fixed . The psu's weren't bad or anything just the cards were doing behavior that back in 2018 was not considered normal.

The issue with the Strix 970 and Vega causing the Focus to shut down is different from the one for Ampere cards on Focus and Prime. The RTX 3000 series cards were also launched in 2020, so not sure how in the world you managed to talk about the RTX 3000 series behaving weird in 2018. The Ampere issue is with noise on the Vsense line causing the PSU to be confused and shutting down. Even if the Prime and Focus worked perfectly with Ampere, it would also not fix them cheaping out on protections by omitting multi rail OCP, using a basic fan controller without hysteresis, the fan making a ticking noise at low RPM, and the PSUs not being very quiet.

12 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Then there is the common post about the seasonic s12 series of psu's. Simply put they are older and shouldn't be used but if you have one they are actually pretty darn solid power supplies just lacking modern protections.

They are not solid PSUs, but loud, low end, group regulated PSUs. The S12 III is also fairly recent, and lacks OTP (Seasonic really likes cheaping out on the protections). E.g. the CXM 2015 and Pure Power 10 (2016) had DC-DC for the minor rails, and those came out half a decade ago.

[Forleb]

1 hour ago, MarkCaplan said:

intel i9-9700K stock speed

ASUS Prime Z390-p

Corsair 3200/16 set with XMP

EVGA GTX 1070 FTW

I think Core GM-650s are on sale - that would be my solution here. 650W is a healthy amount for that combo unless you're aiming for world records on the 1070.

[MarkCaplan]

2 minutes ago, Forleb said:

I think Core GM-650s are on sale - that would be my solution here. 650W is a healthy amount for that combo unless you're aiming for world records on the 1070.

except, I want 3070 at some point... (maybe 3080??)

[jaslion]

42 minutes ago, seon123 said:

The RTX 3000 series cards were also launched in 2020, so not sure how in the world you managed to talk about the RTX 3000 series behaving weird in 2018.

I worded it wrongly I think. I mean that 2018 models and before have issues with rtx 3000 series cards. I am aware of the vega issues too (did not know the 970 caused these too).

[Dedayog]

9 hours ago, MarkCaplan said:

If you search "Seasonic" and read threads between late 2019 and now, which I just did, you would understand why I got this impression.

So you read almost 3 years of threads about Seasonic?

 

I think you're taking what you read way out of context to make the title you did.   

 

They make some great units, as does any PSU company.  

[Forleb]

1 hour ago, MarkCaplan said:

except, I want 3070 at some point... (maybe 3080??)

I see. Got so buried by the others that I didn't see that.

 

750W is fine for either one if you don't OC. You can undervolt Ampere cards pretty hard before hitting diminishing returns on performance, so I'd suggest getting familiar with MSI Afterburner.

[zim2323]

Short answer:

I've had issues with Seasonic, but wouldn't hesitate to buy again.  I personally wouldn't buy anything other than a Prime Platinum rated series though and I don't think any modern gaming system should have a PSU less than 1000w and Platinum rated.  Anything less and it's too much load/efficiency for what we pay for our hardware now.  But that's just me.

 

Long answer:

I have purchased a Seasonic 1200w and 1300w Prime Platinum and I've had to RMA both of them for a faulty fan control chip.  Power Supply itself was fine power-wise, but the fan would only ever run in hybrid mode and sounded like a jet engine taking off when it hit load (40%).  I just replaced my older 1200w in September that was starting to have issues under load (3+ years at 80%+ load), and again I am in the process of RMA'ing the new 1300w for same issue, Unlike other stories I've read, their Tech Support is awesome and I've been able to do Advanced Replacement both times.  I get frustrated having to RMA new units for this issue, but once I have a good unit they seem to be solid.  I'm not an electrician/electrical engineer, so I don't have the proper knowledge to get into the real numbers outside of marketing and my own personal experience.  It's very possible I'm the 1 satisfied Yugo customer.  LOL

 

Because of this latest issue I purchased a beQuiet! Dark Power 12 1500w instead of waiting on the RMA.  I removed a couple PCIe cards, got rid of 6 mechanical drives, and eliminated the second video card, so I now have a larger wattage PSU with lower load% (closer to the 800-900w range) and it should, theoretically, have a longer life under these circumstances.  I only have about a week run-time on the beQuiet! so we'll have to see how this turns out over the next couple years.  I wanted to do the Corsair AX1600i, but $800 plus the Commander Pro to split the motherboard header to go with my H170i AIO cooler, I would have been at $1000 just for PSU.  beQuiet! 1500w was $450.  At half the cost it was a risk I had to take.  I usually never spare expense for quality, but I had to in this case.  It still gets great numbers in the wattage range I'll be using it.  If I was still at 1100+ watts I would have just gone with the AX1600i.  I'll keep my eyes open for a good deal on the Corsair PSU, but for now, the beQuiet! will have to do.

 

The Seasonic RMA is getting put into an old/new system build to replace a cheaper Corsair power supply who's cables aren't long enough to reach around the EATX motherboard in the ATX case who's typical ATX board size passthrough ports are now covered (LOL).  That to say, I have no lack of confidence in Seasonic.  New system will be around 500-600W load and is perfect for longevity of a 1300w PSU.

 

I have always put money in 2 things, PSU and Motherboard.

a) if you don't have clean power from PSU, you'll burn out parts

b) if you're motherboard isn't quality, then you'll still burn out parts because of nasty electrical interference from bad trace runs, metal quality, etc.

 

zim2323