Headphone Setup for $200 USD

[AdvocateOfNyx]

Hey, I'm a long time gaming headset user but recently have been wanting to just go the extra mile and get some nice headphones.  I already have a mic so that is not a concern for me at all, I'd just like some nice sounding headphones.

 

Here is a basic list of preferences:

 

If the setup requires an AMP or DAC to sound good or be powered off of a LOW END PC motherboard, please include that in the cost.  If it's possible to get an AMP+DAC combo AND headphones for under $200 that would sound better/be a better long term investment than just $200 headphones, that'd probably be my preference

 

Having a roommate makes open backs seem like a bad idea both because I don't want to hear them or be annoying, but if there aren't good closed back options then so be it.

 

I would like them to be able (?) to be useful when gaming.  I don't need some crazy surround or anything, but nothing wireless (which I don't think I'd get here anyways but hey, you never know)

 

As far as sound preference is concerned, I'm not entirely sure what I like.  The "best" pair of headphones I own are the Sony WH-H910Ns which imo sound fine, but I'm sorting looking for the next step up here.  I really enjoyed them tuned to the AutoEQ Project's suggestion.  I mostly listen to pop, rap, and some rock.  Bass is important to me, but I don't want it at the expense of sound quality overall.  

 

Lastly, and a sort of unrelated but important question: what kinds of cables do you use?  I have a headphone USB female to male extender thing and it makes everything sound terrible, my Arctis 5 has a really long cable but for other headphones how do I get them around and above my desk?  I need probably 10 feet of cable at least without quality loss.

[BobVonBob]

I'd suggest getting a portable dac/amp like the Fiio BTR3K or Qudelix-5K. They both can plug in to your computer to be used as a desktop amp with the added bonus of having a battery and bluetooth so you can make your headphones portable too.

 

For headphones I'd suggest the Philips SHP9500 if you want open back, or the Shure SRH440 or Audio-Technica ATH-M40x if you want closed back.

[Spuriae]

1 hour ago, AdvocateOfNyx said:

If the setup requires an AMP or DAC to sound good or be powered off of a LOW END PC motherboard, please include that in the cost.  If it's possible to get an AMP+DAC combo AND headphones for under $200 that would sound better/be a better long term investment than just $200 headphones, that'd probably be my preference

For efficient headphones, the $8 Apple dongle or $30 Meizu dongle are great upgrades to onboard audio. The Meizu technically has better measured performance than the common desktop DACs currently available at the $100 price point (JDS Atom, Schiit Modi, etc.).

 

1 hour ago, AdvocateOfNyx said:

Having a roommate makes open backs seem like a bad idea both because I don't want to hear them or be annoying, but if there aren't good closed back options then so be it.

Check with your roommate. My roommates were fine with my open backs all four years, and I knew lots of people in college who also had open backs.

3 hours ago, AdvocateOfNyx said:

As far as sound preference is concerned, I'm not entirely sure what I like.  The "best" pair of headphones I own are the Sony WH-H910Ns which imo sound fine, but I'm sorting looking for the next step up here.  I really enjoyed them tuned to the AutoEQ Project's suggestion.  I mostly listen to pop, rap, and some rock.  Bass is important to me, but I don't want it at the expense of sound quality overall. 

What do you like/dislike about them with and without EQ? I imagine that you're missing out on clean treble (narrow treble peaks can't be removed in EQ effectively) and soundstage most of all with those headphones, which would point towards open-backs having the most obvious difference in sound. If clean bass is important and you already use EQ, an open-back planar like the HE400SE would probably be a good fit, though that wouldn't run so well directly out of a motherboard. It's loud enough for me from the Meizu dongle, but I'm aware that my normal listening levels are quieter than average.

 

3 hours ago, AdvocateOfNyx said:

Lastly, and a sort of unrelated but important question: what kinds of cables do you use?  I have a headphone USB female to male extender thing and it makes everything sound terrible, my Arctis 5 has a really long cable but for other headphones how do I get them around and above my desk?  I need probably 10 feet of cable at least without quality loss.

What type of cable is degrading the sound? Is it possible that something's wrong with the cable?

 

I would just use a cheap 3.5mm extension cable.

[AdvocateOfNyx]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:54 AM, Nimrodor said:

$30 Meizu dongle

My PC does not have USB C, only USB A and 5.1 surround ports so I'm not sure how to use that.  Is there another option?  Or would a USB A to C adaptor work?

 

On 11/23/2021 at 1:54 AM, Nimrodor said:

Check with your roommate

Not just about them also about me, I would like to have the extra privacy and not hear them screaming quite as loudly.  I'm still open to open backs, but based on my situation I'd prefer closed backs.

 

On 11/23/2021 at 1:54 AM, Nimrodor said:

What do you like/dislike about them with and without EQ?

Without an EQ the bass is poppin which I liked for a long time, but once adding the EQ I like how I can hear all the different sounds like... separately if that makes sense.  Instead of hearing bass + everything else, I now feel like I'm hearing everything coming together more evenly.

 

On 11/23/2021 at 1:54 AM, Nimrodor said:

my normal listening levels are quieter than average

I'd say I'm pretty loud on this scale.  I like to not be able to hear basically anything outside of what's being played.  Even on my Arctis 5 (current headphones I use for gaming) which are technically closed back but with terrible leakage I find myself cranking it up a lot.

 

On 11/23/2021 at 1:54 AM, Nimrodor said:

What type of cable is degrading the sound?

It's a cable for like a guitar amp, I think it's 6.35mm?  to 2.5mm and then I threw a 6.35mm to 2.5mm adapter on the 6.35mm.  I know it's kinda sketch, but that's why I asked about if there is a "right" way to extend it before I went on amazon and bought some random 2.5mm to 2.5mm extender to avoid the same thing happening.

[Psittac]

Amazon.com: Philips Fidelio X3 Wired Over-Ear Open-Back Headphones, Multi-Layer 50mm diaphragms, Hi-Res Certified, Premium Finishing - Hear The Difference : Electronics

 

I just ordered a pair of these but I have heard them and they are very good, most of the time they cost $300+ which is why I haven't got them yet because I know they can be had for $160.  But don't sleep on the deal, it rarely comes around.

 

 

 

 

*edit: ah crap, I skipped over the whole closed back point

 

These are recommended by the admin in an audiophile telegram I'm in, I have no exposure to them

 

Amazon.com: Audio-Technica ATH-M40x Professional Studio Monitor Headphone, Black, with Cutting Edge Engineering, 90 Degree Swiveling Earcups, Pro-grade Earpads/Headband, Detachable Cables Included : Electronics

 

 

 

 

Then you could get a dac or an amp with the extra $100 or a portable dac/amp

 

Also a highly recommended line up is the 770/880/990 from beyerdynamic.  I have the 880 600 ohm and it's a beast, very V shaped so strong bass and strong high's.  I got the 770-80 for my blind friend because they're supposed to be rugged and they are indeed.  They have a similar signature to my 880-600

 

Amazon.com: beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 80 Ohm Over-Ear Studio Headphones in Gray. Enclosed design, wired for professional recording and monitoring : Musical Instruments

[AdvocateOfNyx]

1 hour ago, Psittac said:

But don't sleep on the deal, it rarely comes around

One of the videos you linked and a lot of others online seem to say that they're very similar to the previous generation, if not a little worse, they're just built from more premium material.  Assuming I am not super in to the fancy leather thing they have going on, is there any reason not to get the previous gen ones which seem to be a lot cheaper?  

Amazon.com: Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR Over-Ear Open-Air Headphone 50mm Drivers- Black : Electronics

 

And...  Honestly, I am just not a fan of them based on what I've read about them.  I might be wrong and they could be amazing, but people seem to say that they just don't stack up to some other options.  Have you happened to have tried the Drop X Sennheiser HD 58X or Drop X HIFIMAN HE4XX?  Those seem more my speed but having not tried any of them I have no idea how I am supposed to know.

 

 

[Spuriae]

On 11/24/2021 at 9:19 PM, AdvocateOfNyx said:

My PC does not have USB C, only USB A and 5.1 surround ports so I'm not sure how to use that.  Is there another option?  Or would a USB A to C adaptor work?

It would.

On 11/24/2021 at 9:19 PM, AdvocateOfNyx said:

Not just about them also about me, I would like to have the extra privacy and not hear them screaming quite as loudly.  I'm still open to open backs, but based on my situation I'd prefer closed backs.

Completely understandable.

On 11/24/2021 at 9:19 PM, AdvocateOfNyx said:

I'd say I'm pretty loud on this scale.  I like to not be able to hear basically anything outside of what's being played.  Even on my Arctis 5 (current headphones I use for gaming) which are technically closed back but with terrible leakage I find myself cranking it up a lot.

If you plug the Arctis 5 into your phone/motherboard, what device are you using and at volume setting does it get loud enough? I might be able to do the math to check if certain headphones get enough power.

On 11/24/2021 at 9:19 PM, AdvocateOfNyx said:

It's a cable for like a guitar amp, I think it's 6.35mm?  to 2.5mm and then I threw a 6.35mm to 2.5mm adapter on the 6.35mm.  I know it's kinda sketch, but that's why I asked about if there is a "right" way to extend it before I went on amazon and bought some random 2.5mm to 2.5mm extender to avoid the same thing happening.

Audio frequencies and headphone powers are too low for cable parasitics to audibly affect the sound at reasonable cable lengths. Audible distortion is almost always due to something being wrong with the connector mating. Mating connectors with a different number of poles/conductors is particularly prone to this sort of issue.

19 hours ago, AdvocateOfNyx said:

Have you happened to have tried the Drop X Sennheiser HD 58X or Drop X HIFIMAN HE4XX?  Those seem more my speed but having not tried any of them I have no idea how I am supposed to know.

I've tried the HD58X, and have a HD650 and HE400SE on hand for direct comparisons. The 400SE/X4 are generally agreed to be better than the 4XX.

 

The 58X and 400SE/X4 are probably decent fits for you.

 

Since you use Auto EQ, the 400SE responds well to EQ and its broad dip in the high mids is mostly fixable with EQ. It may need an amplifier though.

 

The 58X will sound more natural and have more correct timbre and imaging even with EQ, but the cleaner bass and larger soundstage on the planars are likely to be more immediately impressive. The 58X was less comfortable out of the box but more comfortable after it stretched out a bit over time.

 

Large planars leak like crazy, though. From a close distance, they're just as loud on the outside as on the inside. The 58X leaks but not as much.

[AdvocateOfNyx]

1 hour ago, Nimrodor said:

If you plug the Arctis 5 into your phone/motherboard, what device are you using and at volume setting does it get loud enough? I might be able to do the math to check if certain headphones get enough power.

The Arctis 5 plugs in to a desktop knob which they call the "USB ChatMix Dial" so I'm not sure how it compares.  The dial plugs in to my computer with USB-A, then the headphones plug in to the dial with a proprietary cable.  I use it pretty loud for FPS games, but I can't turn it up for music or it gets crackly and sounds bad.  I will say if it didn't have the hissing and popping problem, I would turn it up higher than I do right now when I am playing music on these (rarely).

 

1 hour ago, Nimrodor said:

Since you use Auto EQ, the 400SE responds well to EQ and its broad dip in the high mids is mostly fixable with EQ. It may need an amplifier though.

I did some more research on my own and decided pretty much the same thing!  I really liked what I heard about the 400SE so decided that I would just give them a shot and if the leakage turned out to be a massive issue, then I could always invest in something else for general use (maybe some IEMs?).

 

Thoughts on these two amps/dacs compared to the Meizu dongle?  Would you consider the dongle to have better performance than either of these?

Amazon.com: FiiO BTR3K Hi-Res Bluetooth 5.0 Receiver/Headphone Amp

Amazon.com: FiiO E10K USB DAC and Headphone Amplifier

 

I don't plan on using these on the go, so I thought that the E10K would be a better fit if it performed about the same.  I've come to like the knob with my Arctis, but I am not willing to give up sound quality for it.  I just don't know how to tell how each of the 3 would alter the sound.

[Spuriae]

2 hours ago, AdvocateOfNyx said:

Thoughts on these two amps/dacs compared to the Meizu dongle?  Would you consider the dongle to have better performance than either of these?

Amazon.com: FiiO BTR3K Hi-Res Bluetooth 5.0 Receiver/Headphone Amp

Amazon.com: FiiO E10K USB DAC and Headphone Amplifier

 

I don't plan on using these on the go, so I thought that the E10K would be a better fit if it performed about the same.  I've come to like the knob with my Arctis, but I am not willing to give up sound quality for it.  I just don't know how to tell how each of the 3 would alter the sound.

Purely in terms of measurements, the Meizu dongle is significantly higher quality output than either of those. Whether or not the difference in quality will be audible to most people is debatable. The E10k has more output power. The BTR3K has slightly more output power in balanced, slightly lower in single ended. Both of the FiiO products have worse-measuring DAC sections than Apple's $8 USB-C dongle, so I wouldn't recommend either as DACs.

 

The HE400SE is plenty loud enough for me from the Meizu dongle, though I have a fairly quiet listening environment and do most of my listening at about 30dB below full volume (or 50-60dB RMS average).

 

I'd recommend getting the headphones first, then deciding if you're satisfied with the output from your computer (comparing the output to your phone or existing dongle). If quality is better from one than the other and the volume gets loud enough, get the Meizu dongle to see if that yields further improvements (the next improvements in quality amplifier-wise are at the ~$100 mark, and the next step up DAC-wise is around $200; neither upgrade should scientifically be audible under normal listening conditions but if you think you can hear a difference, more power to you). If the output is loud enough but you can't tell the difference between your phone and computer outputs, there's not much reason to get an amplifier since you'd be unlikely to hear any further changes in sound. If neither the phone nor the computer gets the output loud enough, then it's worth considering a more powerful amplifier whether or not you can hear a difference in quality.

[Psittac]

On 11/25/2021 at 4:59 PM, AdvocateOfNyx said:

One of the videos you linked and a lot of others online seem to say that they're very similar to the previous generation, if not a little worse, they're just built from more premium material.  Assuming I am not super in to the fancy leather thing they have going on, is there any reason not to get the previous gen ones which seem to be a lot cheaper?  

Amazon.com: Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR Over-Ear Open-Air Headphone 50mm Drivers- Black : Electronics

 

And...  Honestly, I am just not a fan of them based on what I've read about them.  I might be wrong and they could be amazing, but people seem to say that they just don't stack up to some other options.  Have you happened to have tried the Drop X Sennheiser HD 58X or Drop X HIFIMAN HE4XX?  Those seem more my speed but having not tried any of them I have no idea how I am supposed to know.

 

 

I never saw the notification on this.  I tend to go with the reviews Zeos give because he's been the most in line with my own experiences.  I started with products I already owned and watched reviews on them and narrowed my list down as to what reviewers I like and have the same taste as I do.  So his review said they're maybe 5-10% better than the X2HR and that's all I need to know.  To add to that I've heard them a year or two ago when a friend of mine bought them and I haven't heard a sound signature like it since, very warm and silky.  So I've wanted them ever since, I almost got the X2HR a couple times but my financial attention always got caught up on something else.  So when the X3 came up for $160 I could see little reason to get the X2HR and save $30.  As to the actual differences between the two models I honestly couldn't tell you.  Josh Valour say's they're worse and I really enjoy his video's but I disagree with his assessment on about half of the products I have and can relate to so out of the two, one says it's better one says it's worse, I'll go with the one that is reliable to me.

 

I do have the HD6xx and HE400i (2017) and the 6xx is quite an experience on decent tubes.  I don't even use my HE400i because they're quite boring compared to the other headphones I have, but I dailyed them for a few years and they're good all around, open wide and give good directional awareness for video games.  But again I can't say how 6xx compares to 58x or HE400i to HE4xx

 

As to how you're supposed to know, to me that's the fun part is getting something and then listening to what other reviewers have to say about it, then you can learn what different terms they use actually mean.  Though I did make it my hobby for a couple years and chose several mid-fi products over one big dollar chain because that's what I wanted out of it.  The entire hobby is so so subjective that it's really difficult to go off anyones recommendation.

 

I thought of this analogy earlier today.  Trying to explain the characteristics of an audio device whether that's with words charts graphs etc, is like explaining a sunset to a blind person.  If the person used to be able to see and how well they could see greatly increases their ability to understand what you are describing to them.  But no amount of description is on the same level as actually seeing it for yourself.

 

I have a blind friend and he doesn't understand the concept of color.  I recently thought that I could show him different headphones on different amps and tell him that the variance between them is like different shades of colors.

[grimreaper_slm-thg]

On 11/22/2021 at 9:33 PM, AdvocateOfNyx said:

Hey, I'm a long time gaming headset user but recently have been wanting to just go the extra mile and get some nice headphones.  I already have a mic so that is not a concern for me at all, I'd just like some nice sounding headphones.

 

Here is a basic list of preferences:

 

If the setup requires an AMP or DAC to sound good or be powered off of a LOW END PC motherboard, please include that in the cost.  If it's possible to get an AMP+DAC combo AND headphones for under $200 that would sound better/be a better long term investment than just $200 headphones, that'd probably be my preference

 

Having a roommate makes open backs seem like a bad idea both because I don't want to hear them or be annoying, but if there aren't good closed back options then so be it.

 

I would like them to be able (?) to be useful when gaming.  I don't need some crazy surround or anything, but nothing wireless (which I don't think I'd get here anyways but hey, you never know)

 

As far as sound preference is concerned, I'm not entirely sure what I like.  The "best" pair of headphones I own are the Sony WH-H910Ns which imo sound fine, but I'm sorting looking for the next step up here.  I really enjoyed them tuned to the AutoEQ Project's suggestion.  I mostly listen to pop, rap, and some rock.  Bass is important to me, but I don't want it at the expense of sound quality overall.  

 

Lastly, and a sort of unrelated but important question: what kinds of cables do you use?  I have a headphone USB female to male extender thing and it makes everything sound terrible, my Arctis 5 has a really long cable but for other headphones how do I get them around and above my desk?  I need probably 10 feet of cable at least without quality loss.

skullcandy hesh 3, anc, evo

skullcandy crusher wireless, evo -bass slider 

no dac needed

[AdvocateOfNyx]

3 hours ago, grimreaper_slm-thg said:

skullcandy hesh 3, anc, evo

skullcandy crusher wireless, evo -bass slider 

no dac needed

Not the kind of headphones I am looking for but thank you!