"GPU supports up to 4 displays" RTX 3090

[ninbura]

Was hoping to run a 5th monitor off my RTX 3090, so I bought a DisplayPort MST hub to split the forth connection to two monitors. But as soon as I try to extend to that 5th monitor one of my other monitors disconnects, if I try to enable the display in NVIDIA control panel I get the message "GPU supports up to 4 displays".

Anybody else run into this? Any way around it? Really surprised to find that this is a limitation on an RTX 3090, especially considering that each DP 1.4 port could theoretically be split two 4x4K monitors each.

Feels pretty limiting considering the connectors / power of the card.

[Oshino Shinobu]

Nvidia has a hard 4 monitor cap on its GPUs (at least on their Geforce cards), there's no way around it other than buying another GPU to run anything more than 4 monitors. 

 

Or switch to AMD. 

[ninbura]

Very interesting, is the assumption that this is a hardware lock or is it known?

They also put a soft lock on NVENC streams but it can be bypassed with a patch.

[Glenwing]

2 minutes ago, Ninbura said:

Very interesting, is the assumption that this is a hardware lock or is it known?

They also put a soft lock on NVENC streams but it can be bypassed with a patch.

Quadro cards based on the same silicon don't have a 4-display limit. It's a software limit for GeForce cards for market segmentation.

[ninbura]

1 minute ago, Glenwing said:

Quadro cards based on the same silicon don't have a 4-display limit. It's a software limit for GeForce cards for market segmentation.

Frustrating, maybe I'll look into how NVENC is patched and see if there is any way around this limitation too.

Thanks for the info.

[Oshino Shinobu]

Just now, Ninbura said:

Frustrating, maybe I'll look into how NVENC is patched and see if there is any way around this limitation too.

Thanks for the info.

I don't believe there's any work around. I've looked into it before but didn't find anything at all. 

 

I switched over to AMD who don't have such a limitation and probably won't go back to Nvidia as long as they keep doing this kind of thing. 

[ninbura]

2 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

I don't believe there's any work around. I've looked into it before but didn't find anything at all. 

 

I switched over to AMD who don't have such a limitation and probably won't go back to Nvidia as long as they keep doing this kind of thing. 

Yeah I can understand why you'd want to switch because of that.

There wasn't a patch for NVENC a few years ago either, but I bet it's a similar situation.

I'm actually trying to use this 5th display as just a "fake" display run by and EDID emulator, need somewhere where I can full screen my OBS preview so that I can share it in applications like Microsoft Teams and Discord. Maybe there is a software solution to this that doesn't involve running 5 displays on the 3090.

[SansVarnic]

36 minutes ago, Ninbura said:

Was hoping to run a 5th monitor off my RTX 3090, so I bought a DisplayPort MST hub to split the forth connection to two monitors.

Your only real restriction is the max resolution of your GPU.

You can daisy chain [if your monitor supports MST] up to 4 monitors with a single DP video port. I currently max my 1080 with 3 1440 monitors daisy chained from a single DP port plus one tv on my HDMI port.. If your monitors resolution is low enough you can setup 16 monitors on one GPU if you have 4 DP ports. 13 if you have 3 DP and one HDMI.

[Oshino Shinobu]

3 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Your only real restriction is the max resolution of your GPU.

You can daisy chain [if your monitor supports MST] up to 4 monitors with a single DP video port. I currently max my 1080 with 3 1440 monitors daisy chained from a single DP port plus one tv on my HDMI port.. If your monitors resolution is low enough you can setup 16 monitors on one GPU if you have 4 DP ports. 13 if you have 3 and one HDMI.

Not on Geforce cards you can't. There's a limit of 4 monitors, regardless of resolution or how they're connected to the GPU.

[ninbura]

1 minute ago, SansVarnic said:

Your only real restriction is the max resolution of your GPU.

You can daisy chain [if your monitor supports MST] up to 4 monitors with a single DP video port. I currently max my 1080 with 3 1440 monitors daisy chained from a single DP port plus one tv on my HDMI port.. If your monitors resolution is low enough you can setup 16 monitors on one GPU if you have 4 DP ports. 13 if you have 3 and one HDMI.

Wait... doesn't that conflict with this other information?

From my understand daisy chaining uses MST technology, I've got 5 monitors, one connected to the first DP, one connected to the HMDI, 1 connected to the 3rd DP, and then 2 connected to the final DP via an MST hub:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095H9BN24/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Resolutions: 4K60, 4K60, 3440x1440@100Hz, and then on the MST hub I'm trying to do 2x 1080p monitors.

[Oshino Shinobu]

3 minutes ago, Ninbura said:

Wait... doesn't that conflict with this other information?

From my understand daisy chaining uses MST technology, I've got 5 monitors, one connected to the first DP, one connected to the HMDI, 1 connected to the 3rd DP, and then 2 connected to the final DP via an MST hub:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095H9BN24/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Resolutions: 4K60, 4K60, 3440x1440@100Hz, and then on the MST hub I'm trying to do 2x 1080p monitors.

He's wrong. Nvidia has a 4 monitor limit on their GeForce cards, nothing to do with resolution. 

 

EDIT: I've experienced it personally. 1x 1440p monitor on DP, 1x 1080p on HDMI, 1x 1080p on DP and then try to run 2x 1080p on DP MST, which the DP spec would easily handle and it doesn't work, only one monitor does. Remove one of the other monitors, MST works fine, put one monitor on another GPU or the iGPU, works fine. You just can't have more than 4 displays on one GPU. Nvidia support also confirmed it's by design when I raised a support case with them. 

[ninbura]

1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

He's wrong. Nvidia has a 4 monitor limit on their GeForce cards, nothing to do with resolution. 

I'll look into patching it, and I'll contact NVIDIA and bitch to them (obviously this wont do anything lol). They did officially raise the NVENC limit from 2 to 3, maybe it's time to raise the monitor limit.

May just have to get a passive GT 1030 or something, but almost every time I've tried running dual GPUs I run into other issues

[SansVarnic]

17 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Not on Geforce cards you can't. There's a limit of 4 monitors, regardless of resolution or how they're connected to the GPU.

14 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

He's wrong. Nvidia has a 4 monitor limit on their GeForce cards, nothing to do with resolution. 

 

EDIT: I've experienced it personally. 1x 1440p monitor on DP, 1x 1080p on HDMI, 1x 1080p on DP and then try to run 2x 1080p on DP MST, which the DP spec would easily handle and it doesn't work, only one monitor does. Remove one of the other monitors, MST works fine, put one monitor on another GPU or the iGPU, works fine. You just can't have more than 4 displays on one GPU. Nvidia support also confirmed it's by design when I raised a support case with them. 

I have 3 monitors and tv connected right now. I have had up to 7 monitors connected in the past.

Nvidia does not have a monitor restriction, they have resolution restriction.

 

Proof you ask? her you go.

 

[ninbura]

Just now, SansVarnic said:

I have 3 monitors and tv connected right now. I have had up to 7 monitors connected in the past.

Nvidia does not have a monitor restriction, they have resolution restriction.

 

Proof you ask? her you go.

 

Try connecting a 5th monitor.

[Oshino Shinobu]

2 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I have 3 monitors and tv connected right now. I have had up to 7 monitors connected in the past.

Nvidia does not have a monitor restriction, they have resolution restriction.

 

Proof you ask? her you go.

 

That picture has 4 monitors, which is within spec. 

 

Nvidia most certainly does have a 4 monitor limit on their GeForce cards. You can confirm that with @Glenwing

 

It's a well known limit at this point. You just need to look through the Nvidia forums for the numerous posts about it. 

[SansVarnic]

1 minute ago, Ninbura said:

Try connecting a 5th monitor.

As I stated I had up to 7 moniotrs at one time. I dont have those with me at the moment but if you like I can go get them and post you a photo tomorrow.

[ninbura]

1 minute ago, SansVarnic said:

As I stated I had up to 7 moniotrs at one time. I dont have those with me at the moment but if you like I can go get them and post you a photo tomorrow.

Could be that old GPUs didn't have the limit or something, but there's definitely one on my RTX 3090.

[Oshino Shinobu]

5 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

As I stated I had up to 7 moniotrs at one time. I dont have those with me at the moment but if you like I can go get them and post you a photo tomorrow.

This is off a 1080? There should be a 4 monitor limit. 

 

Our personal experience conflicts in that case. I couldn't run 4x 1080p and 1x 1440p on a 2070. Remove any one of the monitors and the others work fine. If it is a resolution limit as you claim, then that means you wouldn't be able to have a 4K monitor and a 1440p monitor connected to the same card, which is definitely not the case. 

 

Please do try another monitor, it won't work, unless you've got some weird card without the limit. 

 

Hell, speaking of confirming, here's a post from Glenwing confirm this exact limit 

 

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gigabyte-gtx-1050-ti-only-supporting-4-monitors-on-at-once.3367158/#post-20491575

[SansVarnic]

I will need to look it up again but on Nvidia site (at the time I researched this) the 1080 and 1080Ti had a resolution limit of 7680x4320 in any configuration of monitor as long as the total resolution did not exceed the max output.

Ill see if I can find this.

 

While I am at it will see what I can find on 3090's but I cannot see why they would change this. 

 

5 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

This is off a 1080? There should be a 4 monitor limit. 

 

Our personal experience conflicts in that case. I couldn't run 4x 1080p and 1x 1440p on a 2070. Remove any one of the monitors and the others work fine. If it is a resolution limit as you claim, then that means you wouldn't be able to have a 4K monitor and a 1440p monitor connected to the same card, which is definitely not the case. 

 

Please do try another monitor, it won't work, unless you've got some weird card without the limit. 

Yes.

The tv is not a 4k. 32inch Roku something. I dont remember.

 

I will have to lower the res of my current monitors to connect the others. The monitors I was using at the time were 1080 monitors.

[Oshino Shinobu]

4 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I will need to look it up again but on Nvidia site (at the time I researched this) the 1080 and 1080Ti had a resolution limit of 7680x4320 in any configuration of monitor as long as the total resolution did not exceed the max output.

Ill see if I can find this.

 

WHile I am at it will see what I can find on 3090's but I cannot see why they would change this. 

The limit is in the 3090 specs:

 

 

It's not in the 1080's specs, but is for 20 series and up. It might have been a driver update but it's been a thing for years. 

 

EDIT: And there's forum posts from 2017 asking about the limit on 1080s, I believe it was always a thing on them. 

[SansVarnic]

1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

It's not in the 1080's specs, but is for 20 series and up. It might have been a driver update but it's been a thing for years. 

I do find this interesting. I may need to find a new GPU and test this... but not now with pricing and availability, I'm not paying the prices currently.

And I have a wife that would contest the purchase... lol

 

That restriction honestly makes no sense to me. Buut /shrug oh well.

 

I will just show myself the door for now.

[Oshino Shinobu]

5 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I do find this interesting. I may need to find a new GPU and test this... but not now with pricing and availability, I'm not paying the prices currently.

And I have a wife that would contest the purchase... lol

 

That restriction honestly makes no sense to me. Buut /shrug oh well.

 

I will just show myself the door for now.

There's forum posts from 2017 asking about it for the 10 series from a quick look around. I never had a 10 series card so not sure if it was always a thing or if they updated it at some point. 

 

It pushes people to the Quadro series I suppose. I saw it as a big "f*** you" from Nvidia, artificially limiting a card's capabilities, hence moving to AMD. There's no practical reason for it (that a consumer could justify), it's Nvidia being Nvidia. 

[Oshino Shinobu]

@Ninbura Back on the question. 

 

Basically, yes, there's a 4 monitor limit on the 3090. 

 

In terms of solutions, you've basically got 3:

1. Use the iGPU if you CPU has one. I wouldn't recommend this, it can cause weird problems with how programs choose which GPU to utilise. 

2. Get another GPU like a 1030 or something. Again, wouldn't really recommend this either as it can cause the same issues as above. I did run a GT710 in my system for a while when I was using a 2070 but switched it out because it was causing too many weird problems. 

3. Switch to AMD or a Quadro card. Not really a solution to be honest, though none of them are. You'd either be taking a step down in performance and losing some Nvidia features or looking at spending more on a card that isn't designed for gaming, assuming that's what you're using the 3090 for. Though to be honest you'd make a profit if you sold the 3090 and bought a 6900XT in this market. 

 

I guess you can look for a work around patch, but I don't think there is one and even if there is, it'll likely be broken again as soon as you update drivers. It sucks that Nvidia has this arbitrary limit on any of their cards, let alone one so expensive, but it is what it is. 

[ninbura]

1 hour ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

@Ninbura Back on the question. 

 

Basically, yes, there's a 4 monitor limit on the 3090. 

 

In terms of solutions, you've basically got 3:

1. Use the iGPU if you CPU has one. I wouldn't recommend this, it can cause weird problems with how programs choose which GPU to utilise. 

2. Get another GPU like a 1030 or something. Again, wouldn't really recommend this either as it can cause the same issues as above. I did run a GT710 in my system for a while when I was using a 2070 but switched it out because it was causing too many weird problems. 

3. Switch to AMD or a Quadro card. Not really a solution to be honest, though none of them are. You'd either be taking a step down in performance and losing some Nvidia features or looking at spending more on a card that isn't designed for gaming, assuming that's what you're using the 3090 for. Though to be honest you'd make a profit if you sold the 3090 and bought a 6900XT in this market. 

 

I guess you can look for a work around patch, but I don't think there is one and even if there is, it'll likely be broken again as soon as you update drivers. It sucks that Nvidia has this arbitrary limit on any of their cards, let alone one so expensive, but it is what it is. 

Yeah the only reason I would have hope that a patch would work at all and persistently is because that has been the case for NVENC:
https://github.com/keylase/nvidia-patch/tree/master/win

Though funny enough the last few drivers have broke the patch and the main dev is MIA:
https://github.com/keylase/nvidia-patch/issues/440

So yeah if I want to be on the latest drivers this is probably problematic in the future, not really an issue on my capture PC where the drivers have been stable for eons regarding NVENC. Seeing as I don't want to take a step down from my 3090 the only real solution is probably running a GT1030. One of the displays I use is just for Chrome dev tools and file explorer while I'm developing, could probably handle that fine without too much oddity. I also have separate boots for gaming and programming so I could just leave the GT1030 disabled on the game boot.

All annoying nonetheless, though I think NVIDIA's reasoning with both the NVENC and this screen limitation is to dissuade professionals / business from eating up consumer cards instead of buying Quadros, which largely funds their operation / R&D for Geforce cards.

[Brian McKee]

2 hours ago, Ninbura said:

All annoying nonetheless, though I think NVIDIA's reasoning with both the NVENC and this screen limitation is to dissuade professionals / business from eating up consumer cards instead of buying Quadros, which largely funds their operation / R&D for Geforce cards.

Yada yada, Intel has been doing this crap for way longer and has been proven to not matter in the slightest when AMD came along and kicked them in the teeth. There's already enough stuff to differentiate their pro cards like the full floating point performance and superior drivers for certain workstation programs.