USB-C DAC/AMP vs Mid-End Motherboard

[Exaco]

Hi there,

I'm not looking for a purchase advice, this is more of a "tech question" so I can understand how stuff works better

So basically I've noticed that DAC/AMP in USB/Adapter form became more popular such as Apple USB Adapter or this one more fancy looking Hidizs S3 PRO Ultra which is also fairly expensive for an "USB Adapter".

So did DAC's became so small nowadays that we don't even need the larger and power hungry ones such as Atom DAC+ ? Or these portable USB DAC's are simply mediocre at best ( equivalent to most PC motherboards in terms of power/quality ) ?

In my opinion they are not worth it and it's only for very specific uses for example using with Smartphone which doesn't have 3.5mm jack, using on PC which has sound issues such as heavy noise due to faulty motherboard, very low power which doesn't provide enough volume for headphones or simply poor design otherwise it's totally useless and would perform same as any smartphone or laptop/motherboard. It simply makes not much sense to suddenly have all that tech/design from lets say Atom DAC+ placed into simple USB stick assuming it's "just as good".

[The Flying Sloth]

1 hour ago, Exaco said:

these portable USB DAC's are simply mediocre at best ( equivalent to most PC motherboards in terms of power/quality ) ?

DAC / converter is probably the last thing you8 should upgrade when considering audio quality. 
1st is speakers / headphones
2nd is amplifier
3rd is DAC.

Of course, that is unless the motherboard audio is noisy in which case any USB solution that isn't becomes an upgrade.

If your motherboard isn't noisy and you already have good speakers / headphones and an amp and you have much better ears than I do you might be able to tell the sound quality difference with a high end DAC, now, if you have 'golden ears' there's not a chance one of those cheap DACs can stand up to a proper high end solution (not to say that the high end solutions are worrth the money or that cheap ones are crap, they're just designed with extremely different things in mind.)

[Spuriae]

For most low impedance headphones, even expensive motherboard outputs are not ideal because the motherboard output impedance tends to be quite high. It's not a huge deal, usually a few extra db of "bloat" in upper bass resonance, but it's certainly audible. The Apple USB dongle is about on-par with most high end Realtek motherboard designs, minus the impedance problems.

 

The newer Cirrus-based dongle DACs are excellent DAC-wise (measuring on-par with the Schiit Modi, Topping D10, Liquid Spark), and have decent built-in headphone amplifiers as well. Measurements of a $30 Meizu dongle.

 

Desktop DACs need all that extra space for power filtering, extra IO ports, switches, and more fully-featured input chips. For extreme high-end products, the extra space and power is necessary. For lower-end products all those extra components result in better compatibility (you don't have to worry nearly as much about driver support, quality of the USB power source, or buying adapters to support downstream devices). What to get depends on your budget, the tradeoffs you're willing to make, and what you're able to hear.

[Exaco]

1 hour ago, Nimrodor said:

For most low impedance headphones, even expensive motherboard outputs are not ideal because the motherboard output impedance tends to be quite high. It's not a huge deal, usually a few extra db of "bloat" in upper bass resonance, but it's certainly audible. The Apple USB dongle is about on-par with most high end Realtek motherboard designs, minus the impedance problems.

 

The newer Cirrus-based dongle DACs are excellent DAC-wise (measuring on-par with the Schiit Modi, Topping D10, Liquid Spark), and have decent built-in headphone amplifiers as well. Measurements of a $30 Meizu dongle.

 

Desktop DACs need all that extra space for power filtering, extra IO ports, switches, and more fully-featured input chips. For extreme high-end products, the extra space and power is necessary. For lower-end products all those extra components result in better compatibility (you don't have to worry nearly as much about driver support, quality of the USB power source, or buying adapters to support downstream devices). What to get depends on your budget, the tradeoffs you're willing to make, and what you're able to hear.

Thanks!

That Meizu seems attractive DAC, but I see the problem with most of these "Dongles" is power output, their amplifiers simply suck even tho the USB-C is capable of a lot more, for example the USB-C can handle up to 100W but all the dongles are below 80mW @ 32ohm ( USB 2.0 FiiO E10K for example is 200mW ) and my headphones need roughly 300-500mW for optimal sound/volume.

Not sure if it's the limit of the physical space or more like a design so it doesn't discharge the phone battery too fast etc.

[Spuriae]

41 minutes ago, Exaco said:

Thanks!

That Meizu seems attractive DAC, but I see the problem with most of these "Dongles" is power output, their amplifiers simply suck even tho the USB-C is capable of a lot more, for example the USB-C can handle up to 100W but all the dongles are below 80mW @ 32ohm ( USB 2.0 FiiO E10K for example is 200mW ) and my headphones need roughly 300-500mW for optimal sound/volume.

Not sure if it's the limit of the physical space or more like a design so it doesn't discharge the phone battery too fast etc.

It's still significantly more power than a motherboard will put out, and dedicated DACs (not combo units) generally can't drive headphones at all.

 

High power amplifiers need space for heat dissipation. It's not possible to have a high performance, high power dongle-sized DAC/Amp (at least, not with modern technology). The Centrance Dacport HD, for instance, can output >300mW into 32Ω, but it's significantly larger than its competition and the aluminum case gets hot enough to burn.

[CTR640]

On 10/3/2021 at 7:36 PM, Exaco said:

Thanks!

That Meizu seems attractive DAC, but I see the problem with most of these "Dongles" is power output, their amplifiers simply suck even tho the USB-C is capable of a lot more, for example the USB-C can handle up to 100W but all the dongles are below 80mW @ 32ohm ( USB 2.0 FiiO E10K for example is 200mW ) and my headphones need roughly 300-500mW for optimal sound/volume.

Not sure if it's the limit of the physical space or more like a design so it doesn't discharge the phone battery too fast etc.

Don't be fooled about Fiio E10K. It can drive the DT770/880 250ohms just fine without issue. And it has Gain levels in case you need it.