11400f upgrade to 11700f for RUST worth it?

[9justinas9]

hey guys i have i5 11400f with 16gb ram and rtx 3060ti i mostly play rust on 1440p 144hz monitor and i get like 80-120 fps sometimes on aimtrain servers i get a framedrops because of intencive action. i lowered settings as low as possible. gpu is never 100% use it sits like 60% but the cpu is at 50-54 percent usage. so i think this game is very cpu intencive. my guess is that it doesnt utilise hyperthreaded cores and thats why its almost everytime at 50% usage. would it help if i upgrade to 8 core 11700f cpu? i wish i can max out 144hz what do you guys think?

[SavageNeo]

ypu play at 1440p so it wotn change anything. do you have 2 sticks of ram? if so what speed and is XMP enabled?

[9justinas9]

1 hour ago, SavageNeo said:

ypu play at 1440p so it wotn change anything. do you have 2 sticks of ram? if so what speed and is XMP enabled?

its not better at 1080p either i tried it. 80fps-100 reducing graphics, lowering to 1080p doesnt help at all sometimes i get like 28fps dip for 3 seconds for no reason idk man. i want to fix this.

acording to cpuz memory is 2667mhz even tho in bios i choose higher speed.

its 2x8gb in dual channel and enabled every possible option for xmp in bios. also it says in cpuz spd Ext XMP 2.0 so i assume its enabled.

[SavageNeo]

5 minutes ago, 9justinas9 said:

2667mhz even tho in bios i choose higher speed.

you probably have motherbaord that limits the ram speed. 

 

is the game in SSD or in HDD? it should be in SSD. hard to belive that your cpu is the culprit since my old much worse cpu did just fine. also see if using max graphics help. if not then its not probably the cpu. 

 

does any other game lag like that? if no, what gaems have you tried?

[9justinas9]

2 hours ago, SavageNeo said:

you probably have motherbaord that limits the ram speed. 

 

is the game in SSD or in HDD? it should be in SSD. hard to belive that your cpu is the culprit since my old much worse cpu did just fine. also see if using max graphics help. if not then its not probably the cpu. 

 

does any other game lag like that? if no, what gaems have you tried?

mainly i play rust and i dont get lag on other games. but lag is not an issue usually its all ok the game has dedicated nvme 2tb ssd that does very good in crystal disk mark 1tb+ r/w

i tried gta5 too everyting ultra no antialiasing enabled i get 80-140fps but once again my cpu usage is quite high compared to gpu usage here is screenshot of that

https://ibb.co/ZgXcLrx

here is rust screenshots. weird thing is i get like 70fps nothing major change and i get 110fps basically i cant understand what impacts fps so drastically

https://ibb.co/D1nDJ4m

[unclewebb]

@9justinas9 The CPU Utilization data in the Windows Task Manager is not the same as CPU usage. On Intel CPUs that have a low base frequency and use a high percentage of turbo boost, the Utilization number can be 50% to 60% higher than CPU usage. This data is misleading. When you are getting these big numbers, look at the Task Manager Details tab. That number is a lot more accurate. 

 

With your 11400F have you raised the turbo power limits yet? The default 65W power limit can interfere with maximum performance. Set this limit to the max in the BIOS or you can use ThrottleStop to accomplish the same thing. This prevents any power limit throttling which is not necessary.

 

 

GTA V is CPU demanding. Power limit throttling is probably what is causing your drops in FPS. 

[9justinas9]

5 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

@9justinas9 The CPU Utilization data in the Windows Task Manager is not the same as CPU usage. On Intel CPUs that have a low base frequency and use a high percentage of turbo boost, the Utilization number can be 50% to 60% higher than CPU usage. This data is misleading. When you are getting these big numbers, look at the Task Manager Details tab. That number is a lot more accurate. 

 

With your 11400F have you raised the turbo power limits yet? The default 65W power limit can interfere with maximum performance. Set this limit to the max in the BIOS or you can use ThrottleStop to accomplish the same thing. This prevents any power limit throttling which is not necessary.

 

 

GTA V is CPU demanding. Power limit throttling is probably what is causing your drops in FPS. 

yes cpu is usually boosing as high as 4.16 ghz you can see in screenshots MBO is asrock H570M pro4 cooler is good up to 120w TDP i maxed out turbo time on MBO
is there a way to check if i have bottleneck? Will it solve someting if i upgrade cpu? i quess RUST is cpu intencve too?

My guess that the game doesnt use hyperthreaded cores and only use physical cores than it makes sense 50% usage but GTA is using more like 70-80% so idk

maybe i have some kind of driver problem? im so lost

[unclewebb]

2 minutes ago, 9justinas9 said:

GTA is using more like 70-80%

The data you are looking at is not usage, it is utilization. This is a meaningless number on Intel CPUs like yours.

 

The 11400F uses 60% turbo boost (4.2 GHz / 2.6 GHz)

 

The Windows utilization graph is 60% higher than CPU usage. Do not look at this data. It does not mean what you think it means. It is based on the CPU running at 2.60 GHz which your CPU is not running at. Next time you are playing a game, look at the Details tab. That is a little closer to reality. 

 

4 minutes ago, 9justinas9 said:

i maxed out turbo time

It is not the turbo time that needs to be maxed out. It is the turbo power limits that need to be set to the max. if the PL1 power limit is still set to 65W, set it to at least 165W. Better yet, set it to the maximum value like I suggested so it never interferes with full turbo boost. 

 

If a game is using 6 cores or less, getting an 8 core CPU is not going to make any significant difference. The 11700F has the same default 65W TDP limit.

[Gohardgrandpa]

1 hour ago, 9justinas9 said:

yes cpu is usually boosing as high as 4.16 ghz you can see in screenshots MBO is asrock H570M pro4 cooler is good up to 120w TDP i maxed out turbo time on MBO
is there a way to check if i have bottleneck? Will it solve someting if i upgrade cpu? i quess RUST is cpu intencve too?

My guess that the game doesnt use hyperthreaded cores and only use physical cores than it makes sense 50% usage but GTA is using more like 70-80% so idk

maybe i have some kind of driver problem? im so lost

@unclewebb has helped me out with the power limits stuff and it made a huge difference with my rig. I don't know if yours will be as massive as mine but it's worth trying

[9justinas9]

1 hour ago, unclewebb said:

The data you are looking at is not usage, it is utilization. This is a meaningless number on Intel CPUs like yours.

 

The 11400F uses 60% turbo boost (4.2 GHz / 2.6 GHz)

 

The Windows utilization graph is 60% higher than CPU usage. Do not look at this data. It does not mean what you think it means. It is based on the CPU running at 2.60 GHz which your CPU is not running at. Next time you are playing a game, look at the Details tab. That is a little closer to reality. 

 

It is not the turbo time that needs to be maxed out. It is the turbo power limits that need to be set to the max. if the PL1 power limit is still set to 65W, set it to at least 165W. Better yet, set it to the maximum value like I suggested so it never interferes with full turbo boost. 

 

If a game is using 6 cores or less, getting an 8 core CPU is not going to make any significant difference. The 11700F has the same default 65W TDP limit.

thanks for informing i launched HWmonitor and it reports 30% while task manager shows 50% so i guess cpu is not really bottlenecked but now i really dont know whats wrong with this pc. i increased PL1 and PL2 to 175w using cinebench it goes as high as 120w now with out any noticeable performance increase according to score. i decreased the game resolution to 1366x768 looks terrible but i still get like 80fps cpu usage at 26% and gpu usage at 18% something is clearly wrong

i upgraded from gtx 1060 recently is it possible that drivers are broken or something?

look at this 

 

[unclewebb]

42 minutes ago, 9justinas9 said:

i launched HWmonitor and it reports 30% while task manager shows 50%

On the 11400F,

 

CPU Usage = Task Manager Utilization X 0.6

CPU Usage = 50% X 0.6

CPU Usage = 30%

 

The game you are playing was not written to take advantage of a 6 core CPU. More cores will make zero difference. 

 

42 minutes ago, 9justinas9 said:

i decreased the game resolution

When you decrease the resolution, the GPU does not have to work as hard. This game is not taking advantage of what your GPU is capable of. Try some other games. 

 

42 minutes ago, 9justinas9 said:

i upgraded from gtx 1060

Did you completely remove the previous drivers? Some people use DDU to make sure that everything is gone.

 

https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

 

You might have to reinstall some games you are playing so it can take advantage of your new hardware. Did the FPS improve at all after changing the GPU?

[9justinas9]

2 hours ago, unclewebb said:

On the 11400F,

 

CPU Usage = Task Manager Utilization X 0.6

CPU Usage = 50% X 0.6

CPU Usage = 30%

 

The game you are playing was not written to take advantage of a 6 core CPU. More cores will make zero difference. 

 

When you decrease the resolution, the GPU does not have to work as hard. This game is not taking advantage of what your GPU is capable of. Try some other games. 

 

Did you completely remove the previous drivers? Some people use DDU to make sure that everything is gone.

 

https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

 

You might have to reinstall some games you are playing so it can take advantage of your new hardware. Did the FPS improve at all after changing the GPU?

all cores are somewhat working when compared to game not running. so idk 

i had worse hardware and when i upgraded i didnt get so much performance increase as expected. non of the components are utilised to its full potential. for me it feels like wasted money and unused performance.

i just did ddu driver reinstall and i can see no difference in fps. its so weird that i can get simmilar performance with much older and weaker hardware

[YoungBlade]

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out, but in your screenshots for Rust, it looks like your RAM is almost maxed out. You might be getting poor performance because you're running out of RAM. How well does Rust run when you are in less memory intensive settings - no mods, not as much stuff in the environment?

[9justinas9]

i didnt listen for huys who said cpu upgrade wont help and i did it anyway. it helped. less fps drops. more fps. not significant but its at the point of not annoying