The Real Reason People Are Mad About Windows 11

[Reclusive Eagle]

Ok so before you lose your mind, take a deep breath.

I think people are so hyped up about something new just because they like (Or hate) the redesigned icons and QoL updates that they forget that there are legitimate concerns and issues with what has just happened. So lets get into it.

What's the problem? Apple does it

Well you'd think that there wouldn't be a problem and really what's the big deal because Apple does the same thing every year and people love it! right? ..except they don't. There is a fundamental difference between Mac and Windows design philosophies that allows Apple to drop a "New OS" every year.

Well what's is the difference?

• MacOS is designed from the ground up to be modular

Apple's design philosophy has allowed them to change, overhaul and redesign entire core aspects of their entire operating system without affecting compatibility, usability or existing features.

The new "versions" of MacOS that come out every year are not new operating systems. They are the equivalent of Windows yearly updates. Except again, Apple has the ability to fundamentally change even the main aspects of their entire OS with these yearly updates without affecting existing features.

In essence Windows is like a proprietary built car. You can change the cosmetics, interior and add new features/accessories but fundamentally its set in stone. Modular design is a relatively new concept that Apple has been at the forefront in for over a decade. But that is a massive problem when you introduce it and gate new features to a new OS.

The Main Issue

The main issue with Windows 11 is in its current state it does not need to exist. 90% of the "New" features they introduced in the Windows 11 stream ...could have been in Windows 10. In fact they would would have been if Microsoft didn't change their mind last second.

Remember the "Fluent Redesign" Microsoft started introducing in 2019? Well not only have they only managed to implement only about 1/3rd of the features they promised (mostly just the cosmetic changes). They've also delayed and delayed new features so much that they have just decided to cut from Windows 10 entirely and just add them to Windows 11.

Yes Windows 11 comes with massive under the hood changes for developers and creators as well but why create an entirely new OS for features that would have been in Windows 10 had they not delayed it so much and if developers were already dealing with Windows 10 just fine?

They created a new platform for new technologies when those new technologies were already being created without issue and the "new" features should have already been in Windows 10.

The real reason Windows 11 was made

Microsoft did not make Windows 11 for users or developers. Microsoft made Windows 11 for Microsoft. Because of their ridged design principles, bad design decisions and slow innovation Microsoft has found itself in a position to where its back is against the wall.

Either they admit their decisions and design philosophy was a complete mistake and create an entirely new modern modular OS to compete with MacOS, Linux and ChromeOS. Or find themselves in a position to where they could very realistically lose majority market share.

Windows 11 is an "Oh f *k" moment. Plain and simple.

The Sacrifice

In order to bring modern modular design to Windows, Microsoft has had to kneejerk Windows 11 so hard everyone from everyday Users to Motherboard and CPU manufacturers are being affected. Most motherboards don't have TPM 2.0 support in 2021. That's a fact. Unless you either have high end or gaming motherboards that have a TPM header and even if you do, most still need a separate external device.

Luckily Intel started implementing TPM into their CPU's starting from 8th gen onwards. And AMD recently started doing the same (Past 2 years).

Now I know what you are going to say. "Actually you can run Windows 11 on TPM 1.2"

And that's correct you can ...here is the issue. Intel and AMD only recently (2 - 3 years) started implementing TPM with TPM 2.0. And unless you are a Workstation/Server user and have a Motherboard that you got specifically for TPM security in the past 10 years... TPM 2.0 is the first version available to consumers.

Never mind the fact that even if you do have a CPU with TPM 1.2/2.0 support, unless you have a decent motherboard you can't enable CPU TPM in BIOS because cheaper motherboards have dropped features in BIOS.

Conclusion

So not only is the entire industry blindsided by a new OS we did not need or ask for with features that could, should and Would have come to Windows 10. In order to now get these new features, unless you are well off enough to have purchased a Decent New PC/Laptop within the past 3 years, you now have to buy new hardware for features we should already have for no other reason than Microsoft bad decisions.

[WhitetailAni]

8 minutes ago, Reclusive Eagle said:

"Actually you can run Windows 11 on TPM 1.2"

Unfortunately you can't anymore. TPM 2.0 is a hard requirement, no ifs ands or buts.

9 minutes ago, Reclusive Eagle said:

And AMD recently started doing the same (Past 2 years).

AFAIK Every Ryzen CPU ever has an fTPM with TPM 2.0 support.

[mr cheese]

I think this is about the funniest part of this whole ordeal:

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/283812/thanks-to-windows-11-scalpers-buy-out-add-on-tpm-2-0-modules

Spoiler

Most modern PC platforms include an fTPM (firmware trusted platform module) of some form. Those that don't, have a TPM 2.0 compatible header on the motherboards. Microsoft's requirement of a hardware TPM for Windows 11 has scalpers go after add-on TPMs, which are typically priced around $20, but now marked up to $100, according to price-tracking by Shen Ye, a senior HTC VIVE exec, who has been tracking prices of add-on TPMs on Twitter.

Scalpers possibly anticipate a rush of ill-informed buyers out for add-on TPMs, who haven't spent 5 minutes digging through their UEFI setup programs for the fTPM toggle. Below is a screenshot of a Ryzen 7 2700X-based machine, paired with an AMD B450 chipset motherboard (a platform from 2018), with its fTPM toggle turned on. The PC now meets Windows 11 system requirements. Windows 11 uses hardware TPMs for secure storage of credentials. "Microsoft, can you not impose a TPM requirement during a silicon shortage? Especially considering most desktop motherboards support TPM only as a purchasable accessory," Shen Ye tweeted.

TPM 2.0 add-on cards are now being scalped and resold because why the fuck not do that.

 

I'm actually willing to bet a pretty good amount of money on this being the push for motherboard manufacturers to push out TPM 2.0 motherboard support which at the end of the day WILL be better for consumers.

 

26 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

Unfortunately you can't anymore. TPM 2.0 is a hard requirement, no ifs ands or buts.

Is that so? Click on this for the linked timestamp (42:05)

 

38 minutes ago, Reclusive Eagle said:

Either they admit their decisions and design philosophy was a complete mistake and create an entirely new modern modular OS to compete with MacOS, Linux and ChromeOS.

I don't think this is true at all. They stuck to a design philosophy that has worked since Windows fucking 3.1 and is still replicated in most all Linux distros that you can download today. Everyone went modern and Microsoft decided to keep up with that easy-for-grandma feel that newer OS'es have

[Somerandomtechyboi]

I think theres a way to bypass the tpm requirement but thats one of the non legit ways and for most organizations that dont want to deal with crap like modifying windows files then theyll either stick to the dying windows 10 or switch to linux.

 

So forcing tpm on w11 = suicide move for microsoft which will push people to linux or macos

[SansVarnic]

22 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

suicide move for microsoft which will push people to linux or macos

Repetitively said over the many years Microsoft has been around, and yet is still the most used, purchased, installed, pirated OS around. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

18 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Repetitively said over the many years Microsoft has been around, and yet is still the most used, purchased, installed, pirated OS around. 

Looks like people are just too attatched to windows and will stop at nothing to install it on their system even if it means a ton of trouble, modding windows files, upgrading computers, etc.

 

Heck i bet if you called a distro of linux windows even though its a completely different operating system with a completely different feel, sheeple will still buy that crap anyways

[SansVarnic]

4 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Looks like people are just too attatched to windows and will stop at nothing to install it on their system even if it means a ton of trouble, modding windows files, upgrading computers, etc.

 

Heck i bet if you called a distro of linux windows even though its a completely different operating system with a completely different feel, sheeple will still buy that crap anyways

You generalize too much; I suggest you tone it down some ...

[Somerandomtechyboi]

39 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

You generalize too much; I suggest you tone it down some ...

I guess the part where i said people will buy linux if a distro is called windows is mostly false, if it wasnt then people would be flocking to that weird linux lite fork called "windows 12"

[Daethz]

"forcing tpm will force people on to other OS's" uhh, so they will buy a new computer, with a different os?

More likely they will just buy.. a new windows pc

If anyone is still using 2016 cpu's and mobos when windows 10 End of life comes in october 2025, they have bigger problems.

[Terminasitor]

1 hour ago, Daethz said:

"forcing tpm will force people on to other OS's" uhh, so they will buy a new computer, with a different os?

More likely they will just buy.. a new windows pc

If anyone is still using 2016 cpu's and mobos when windows 10 End of life comes in october 2025, they have bigger problems.

I understand that to us as entusiasts using 2016 hardware in 2025 seems like hell... But I when i finally upgrade my pc I intend to give my current one to my Dad or my Sister. They will only use it to surf the web or write in Word and it will propably meet their needs for years to come. I do not understand why Microsoft is seemingly killing "old" hardware when it has supported 32 bit windows 10 for so long after 32 bit prosssors got irelevant.

[MadmanRB]

8 hours ago, Daethz said:

"forcing tpm will force people on to other OS's" uhh, so they will buy a new computer, with a different os?

More likely they will just buy.. a new windows pc

If anyone is still using 2016 cpu's and mobos when windows 10 End of life comes in october 2025, they have bigger problems.

Thing is I have seen many PC's that have lasted way past 10 years and many still function well even in the modern era.

I mean for Pete’s sake, I just worked on a core 2 system a year ago and it was still kicking ass at browsing the internet and video playback.

Heck, that puppy still works well as I know its owner and that baby still wants to go.

I also just got my hands on a Phenom II machine that I am turning into a HTPC, that too is super rock solid even with modern tasks.

Microsoft can bite me.

[HandymanHandy]

It's shitty for sure but if Microsoft does not want to support older devices for Windows 11, that's their decision. It's that simple. 

Windows 10 is still there, still being updated and many of the windows 11 features are coming to windows 10. Like that new Microsoft Store.

 

We're not entitled for new OS on older hardware even if it "runs" pretty well. It's their choice whether they want to support old devices or not. With that being said, yeah 6th gen and 7th gen mission out is really ridiculous.

 

Also those saying that, people will leave Windows to go to different platform, they can try. Large number of people are never leaving Windows. Corporations are not leaving windows. And that's all Microsoft cares about. 

[Guest colin.p]

My current computer is a "refurb" I bought last March. It doesn't meet the requirements, so no win 11 on this baby. It is a 4th gen i5 and as far as TPM, I wouldn't count on it. I'm rather surprised that I can run win 10 on it and I guess I get another 4 years of win 10 updates. Then in 2025, I'll buy another $300 refurb and  it will more than likely have 11 already on it.

 

 

 

 

 

[HanZie82]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:00 AM, DaJakerBoss said:

I think this is about the funniest part of this whole ordeal:

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/283812/thanks-to-windows-11-scalpers-buy-out-add-on-tpm-2-0-modules

  Reveal hidden contents

Most modern PC platforms include an fTPM (firmware trusted platform module) of some form. Those that don't, have a TPM 2.0 compatible header on the motherboards. Microsoft's requirement of a hardware TPM for Windows 11 has scalpers go after add-on TPMs, which are typically priced around $20, but now marked up to $100, according to price-tracking by Shen Ye, a senior HTC VIVE exec, who has been tracking prices of add-on TPMs on Twitter.

Scalpers possibly anticipate a rush of ill-informed buyers out for add-on TPMs, who haven't spent 5 minutes digging through their UEFI setup programs for the fTPM toggle. Below is a screenshot of a Ryzen 7 2700X-based machine, paired with an AMD B450 chipset motherboard (a platform from 2018), with its fTPM toggle turned on. The PC now meets Windows 11 system requirements. Windows 11 uses hardware TPMs for secure storage of credentials. "Microsoft, can you not impose a TPM requirement during a silicon shortage? Especially considering most desktop motherboards support TPM only as a purchasable accessory," Shen Ye tweeted.

TPM 2.0 add-on cards are now being scalped and resold because why the fuck not do that.

 

I'm actually willing to bet a pretty good amount of money on this being the push for motherboard manufacturers to push out TPM 2.0 motherboard support which at the end of the day WILL be better for consumers.

 

Is that so? Click on this for the linked timestamp (42:05)

 

I don't think this is true at all. They stuck to a design philosophy that has worked since Windows fucking 3.1 and is still replicated in most all Linux distros that you can download today. Everyone went modern and Microsoft decided to keep up with that easy-for-grandma feel that newer OS'es have

Sorry to reply just for this, but its a pet-peeve of mine.

DO NOT tell people to skip to a spot in a Youtube.
If YOU share the correct link it does it automagicly!!!!

 

I have made the link for you but next time, on Youtube click share and mark the checkbox "Start at 42:05"

 

 

[mr cheese]

1 hour ago, HanZie82 said:

Sorry to reply just for this, but its a pet-peeve of mine.

DO NOT tell people to skip to a spot in a Youtube.
If YOU share the correct link it does it automagicly!!!!

 

I have made the link for you but next time, on Youtube click share and mark the checkbox "Start at 42:05"

 

 

...that's what I did... I specifically made and copied the link with that checkbox created... Guess I just forgot to copy the new link with the time stamp, my bad

[DarthBaggins]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:04 AM, FakeKGB said:

Unfortunately you can't anymore. TPM 2.0 is a hard requirement, no ifs ands or buts.

AFAIK Every Ryzen CPU ever has an fTPM with TPM 2.0 support.

TPM 1.2 is allowed for those on baremetal vs prebuilts.  Problem is HEDT Intel only started implementing this on 10***x series CPU's which are pretty much the same die since Broadwell-E (minus some internal arc tweaks over the years).  So those of us on that class of hardware have to use work-arounds to get this to work.  The TPM is not necessary in the end but right now they want to push it (during a hardware shortage across the world). 

[GoodBytes]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:54 AM, Reclusive Eagle said:

The main issue with Windows 11 is in its current state it does not need to exist. 90% of the "New" features they introduced in the Windows 11 stream ...could have been in Windows 10. In fact they would would have been if Microsoft didn't change their mind last second.

I hear this argument for every version of Windows "Oh they could have just made an update".

Yes, technically, software isn't a physical good, and things can be updated. But it doesn't work that way.

 

You have product perception plays a big part. If this was Windows 10 update, no one would care, and people would complain on why they can keep thing as before. It would still have the same image as Windows 10 that user has. It would not have the impact of a new version. 

 

It also allows Microsoft to turn the page on a product, and permits a larger requirements change, without fragmenting its users. Imagine if Microsoft allows all Win10 users on Windows 11, but then next year, they release 11 update say, 22H2, and now you say "Whelp now we have all these security features which needs TPM 2.0, or some CPU instruction that only new CPUs support..." and now they just split their user base. 70% of it will remain under Windows 11, and the other will go under Windows 11 22H2, and now software, games, manufacturers, etc... needs to support both, and then it will come to a point where Windows 11 will be out of support at some point, and now you'll have news title like "Windows 11 is unsafe!" and now people won't read the article, will start thinking that Windows 11 is not safe.

 

 

On 6/26/2021 at 12:54 AM, Reclusive Eagle said:

Remember the "Fluent Redesign" Microsoft started introducing in 2019? Well not only have they only managed to implement only about 1/3rd of the features they promised (mostly just the cosmetic changes). They've also delayed and delayed new features so much that they have just decided to cut from Windows 10 entirely and just add them to Windows 11.

It's been mostly implemented. Windows 10 was released in a poor state. It was a rushed job from Windows 8. Windows 8 didn't resonate well with consumers, and they needed a GUI that works with desktops/laptops, a return to form, and it was all slap together. Microsoft perfectly knew that Windows 10 wasn't ready, and they even indirectly admitted that. They are the ones that pushed "Yea, it's now a service..." and just push that "it will get better", upgrade to Win10 today, stick around, it will get better. That is also why the OS got two version update per year. At the cost of quality, especially in its early days, it really needed that.

 

On 6/26/2021 at 12:54 AM, Reclusive Eagle said:

The real reason Windows 11 was made

Microsoft did not make Windows 11 for users or developers. Microsoft made Windows 11 for Microsoft. Because of their ridged design principles, bad design decisions and slow innovation Microsoft has found itself in a position to where its back is against the wall.

Either they admit their decisions and design philosophy was a complete mistake and create an entirely new modern modular OS to compete with MacOS, Linux and ChromeOS. Or find themselves in a position to where they could very realistically lose majority market share.

Windows 11 is an "Oh f *k" moment. Plain and simple.

Microsoft is a company. They aim to make money. They want people to use Windows, as it pushes its services. It pushes Office, OneDrive but most importantly, Azure. Same how Amazon pushes AWS. Amazon uses AWS and act as a showcase of AWS abilities. Fluent Design has also hugely help Azure. Azure interface looks super nice and easy to use. AWS looks like you are on a website from early 2000.

 

This is why Microsoft cares about Windows 11. Windows 11 is also a test for the new CEO. It's first OS that was developed under his watch, following Microsoft new culture that he set. It already highlights an important philosophy: Polish before release. If you pay close attention to the hints in the reveal video, there is a lot of details that were taken. Windows 11 will also have only 1 update per year to promote quality.  I am not saying, and it would be ridiculous to expect 0 problem. Even Apple, who has a handful of hardware that they only need to support can't deliver that. But it should be less if their internal QA strategy works.

 

So yes, it is for Microsoft, yes, it is marketing. Do you remember No Man Sky's? Well, they have added a great number of things they initially promised and didn't deliver... they turned the game as a service. The game got massively better since its release.... but does anyone care anymore? No. If they did No Man Sky's 2 instead, they would get a lot more media attention, and more sales with some good PR to explain the mess and deliver this time (maybe with a beta or demo to showcase that "yes, it has everything we said"). I am no marketing professional, but it is clear that the damage control they have made on No Man Sky's, beside avoiding a lawsuit, had no impact.

 

Quote

The Sacrifice

In order to bring modern modular design to Windows, Microsoft has had to kneejerk Windows 11 so hard everyone from everyday Users to Motherboard and CPU manufacturers are being affected. Most motherboards don't have TPM 2.0 support in 2021. That's a fact. Unless you either have high end or gaming motherboards that have a TPM header and even if you do, most still need a separate external device.

You have motherboard without TPM because the CPU support it. Yes, a dedicated TPM chip is more secure than a firmware approach done on the CPU. This is why business class laptop tend to have a dedicated TPM chip, and home system rely on the CPU to support it. Saves money and does a good enough job for home use. The only issue, is that in the DIY space, for some idiotic reason, motherboard manufactures have it disabled by default. And sadly, I have not seen any good YouTube video explaining how to configure UEFI properly. They all say, essentially "Set XMP to Profile 1" save and quit. No one says "Hey makes sure UEFI is enabled, make sure that CSM is disabled, etc... motherboard manufacturers default configuration is all about reducing support call... they config the boards (well, until recently) to please that 1 user that may install XP in 2019 or whatever, despite not being supported since years.

 

I can't even count the number of threads I need to repeat for them to check their UEFI settings. And before that, it was on setting their SATA controller to SATA mode (and not IDE mode) to get the full performance and ensure AHCI is enabled, before installing Windows, or help people do the registry changes in Windows before switching to AHCI mode once they learned about it. So many people never enjoyed the full performance of their HDD let alone SSD.

 

 

I think the requirement for 8th gen Intel CPU and Ryzen 2000 and up, is mainly for 4 reasons in my opinion:

• Help quality control.
• If needed, to fix a security issue, or want to improve things, they don't need to worry about "legacy" hardware support.
• Ensures a good experience for all users, including those who insist on buying Celerons and Pentium branded CPUs. Remember that you do have people who buy a 300$ laptop, gets a crap experience, then buy an Apple at ~10x the price, and goes "Oh WOW! Look how fast and responsive Apple computers are! Apple is the best! PCs are so slow". 
• Avoids a Vista with incompatible hardware. You can bet that Microsoft knock on AMD and Intel doors, and went. "Ok we want our users to have proper support for Windows 11 for the best experience for the next year, at least..." and Intel and AMD pretty much said what they were willing to support. I won't be surprised. An amazing move from Intel and AMD, as guess who is taking the blame for drop support? Microsoft, not them. The way also on the event how Microsoft just mentioned how amazing Intel is, to me, really highlights some back door talks, and most likely money was exchanged. or who knows, Intel 11th gen only, and art of the negotiation to have 8th gen included was to say how Intel is amazing. Also, notice that in the event, we only saw Surface Pro once, for the reveal of the coming up pen feature, the rest where all OEMs systems (and they were all Intel based, but don't quote me on that. I mean I didn't see an AMD only system, like the ASUS ROG Strix laptop (lid is different for AMD systems over Intel, if I am not mistaken)

 

[throwaway3224]

PersonA> hey bruh check out this awesome thing
PersonB> can I have it?
PersonA> nope. rekt.

PersonA> hey bruh check out this awesome thing
PersonB> can I have it?
PersonA> if you TPM MBR GPT BIOS CSM UEFI
PersonB> 

[Daethz]

15 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Thing is I have seen many PC's that have lasted way past 10 years and many still function well even in the modern era.

I mean for Pete’s sake, I just worked on a core 2 system a year ago and it was still kicking ass at browsing the internet and video playback.

Heck, that puppy still works well as I know its owner and that baby still wants to go.

I also just got my hands on a Phenom II machine that I am turning into a HTPC, that too is super rock solid even with modern tasks.

Microsoft can bite me.

I don't know why anyone would use a computer soley for browsing the internet in 2021 when smartphones exist.

but thats just me

 

And I agree this TPM 2.0 thing is stupid, but according to linus's video TPM 2.0 will only be required for OEM's apparently? shrug

[Alexeygridnev1993]

Dreaming that one day "Microsoft screws up so badly that everyone will jump to Linux" is, unfortunately, a wishful thinking. People use Windows not because they like it but because it is compatible with over 2 decades of Windows software. I know Wine exists, bit it has never worked great, and never will.

 

It is even more true for enterprise users. They won't be satisfied with the software which works "almost the same" as the one they need (i.e. Libreoffice instead of Office 365, GIMP vs Photoshop, etc.). If the exact piece of software doesn't work on the OS, they won't use that OS, period.

[SansVarnic]

On 6/26/2021 at 2:41 AM, Somerandomtechyboi said:

I guess the part where i said people will buy linux if a distro is called windows is mostly false, if it wasnt then people would be flocking to that weird linux lite fork called "windows 12"

This is attacking and bit underhanded of you to say. People in general like convenience and Windows provides just that. Because you and many like you [my assumption to place you in this generalization like this] is a small portion of a population and small portion of the pc community. Microsoft and in  some ways Apple look to provide a convenience that the masses don't have to work to do work on their computers.

I appreciate Linux like the next pc nerd but I don't like the extra work to put into Linux distro, I'm not that way (and yes, I know there are variations from each extreme available in Linux, it's not my point though) so from my personal standpoint I enjoy the environment that Window provides. Granted I do use the preview version, so I do have to sit down sometimes and troubleshoot from the inherent occasional bug that pops up [but we are not really talking about me here]. Alot of the general user will stick to an environment that is easy to integrate to and with today, easily accommodates their pc/tablet/mobile experience. Linux unfortunately does not provide that same level of user interface that Windows provides [or apple]. 

 

16 hours ago, ptirth96 said:

It's shitty for sure but if Microsoft does not want to support older devices for Windows 11, that's their decision. It's that simple. 

Yes and No. It has been expected (and long awaited to some extent) for some time that Microsoft would get past trying to serve to older gen hardware and start to focus forward on newer standards, this may be that step in that direction. Backwards compatibility has been [Imo] a major handicap for OS's in the past 20 years restricting possible decent leaps in capability.

Honestly, I think part of the reason MSFT never really has cleaned up the Kernel is because of the "need" to include backwards compatibility thusly hindering said progress. People like to harp on about the old "garbage" code still imbedded in the Windows Kernel but now that they may be doing it [cleaning it up] people will still and always find a reason to complain, like requiring new hardware to use the OS. Makes sense to me.

I may be wrong on this but that is just a thought. @GoodBytes what's your impression?

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

This is attacking and bit underhanded of you to say. People in general like convenience and Windows provides just that. Because you and many like you [my assumption to place you in this generalization like this] is a small portion of a population and small portion of the pc community. Microsoft and in  some ways Apple look to provide a convenience that the masses don't have to work to do work on their computers.

Yes and No. It has been expected (and long awaited to some extent) for some time that Microsoft would get past trying to serve to older gen hardware and start to focus forward on newer standards, this may be that step in that direction. Backwards compatibility has been [Imo] a major handicap for OS's in the past 20 years restricting possible decent leaps in capability.

Honestly, I think part of the reason MSFT never really has cleaned up the Kernel is because of the "need" to include backwards compatibility thusly hindering said progress. People like to harp on about the old "garbage" code still imbedded in the Windows Kernel but now that they may be doing it [cleaning it up] people will still and always find a reason to complain.

I may be wrong on this but that is just a thought. @GoodBytes what's your impression?

I expect that as well... however... I know that people will pull their Core 2 Duo out of the closet or whatever, install Windows 11 in some fashion ('cause in reality Windows is more Linux than Apple. What I mean is if Microsoft wants to really lock things they would, but they aren't. Microsoft tend to always put minimal effort blocking. Anyways off topic), then they would go online and say "Look! It runs! See! Those specs are fake!"

 

The issue is that people don't get, is that:

1. They didn't test every feature set of the OS.
2. "Support" doesn't mean it will work or not work. It means if it works, or looks like it works, then good for you! But if you are having an issue, too bad!
   
   I have a Core i7-930, and on the recent'ish Insider builds, there is an issue that causes a BSOD, which gets progressively worse at each boot. Basically something happens, and it is destroying itself (the OS I mean, personal data is fine). It seems that the Ethernet controller is the starting point (from my troubleshooting... strange I know). Not sure why.. but it is. So, I am using a USB to Ethernet adapter (after a clean install and re-joining the same build...) this is my workaround for the issue. I don't expect it to be fixed, despite reporting it, and I seem to be alone on that one. You know why I am saying this? And why I am not outraged? 'cause my system is outside of the supported list of CPUs for Windows 10 since a while:
   
   https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-10-21h1-supported-intel-processors 
   (PS: Intel 5th gen CPU and up is what is supported for 21H1, if you wondered)
   
   Another issue, I have is starting with Windows 10 20H1 in dev, my PCIe slots linked directly to the CPU no longer works, beside the 16x one for the GPU. To be exact, it works, by Windows cannot properly detect the hardware connected to it. And so, drivers can't be loaded. If I roll back to an old version, then it works with whatever I connect to it, such as my sound card or PCIe NVMe Storage card (I got that for me to do a data backup on system I get that have a NVMe drive, as my system obviously has no support for it). If I didn't have a sound card, and be like most people, who have an ATX board but only have 1 GPU and no other expansion card. I would have probably never noticed the issue. My solution was simply to move the card to the PCIe slot that goes through the chipset instead. Strangely enougth that pleases Windows in detecting properly my sound card (or my PCIe storage card) and load the drivers. Now there is another issue specifically with the sound card, where the sound is now distorted if the PC volume is set above 50%. To solve this, I set my PC volume to 50%, and rely on my speaker volume to control the volume of my speakers and headphones (they connect to the speakers). Again, if I roll back to a previous version of Windows 10, or install 7, or 8 no issue. So, the hardware works. The OS works, obviously, but due to lack of support, I am seeing things fall apart in terms of experience.
   
   Every time I hear performance improvements.... there is a good chance something on my system will stop working right. This is what I noticed on my side with my particular old system with Windows 10. So, Microsoft has been working on dropping support on things for a while. 

 

Now, why I expect "people to install Windows 11 on a Core 2 duo and say it works"? And it WILL work. Because Windows 11 will be open to CURRENT Windows 10 Insiders, regardless of if they meet or not the system requirements. But at release, they won't be able to get further Insider updates. And Microsoft made it clear, that during this time, if something screws up, and you need to re-install the OS to fix it, you won't be able to join back to the Insider program with that system (at least without a workaround, which I suspect will be easily found). You'll need to install Windows 10 back. Anyways, Microsoft has plans, but it won't be for now, is what I think.

 

Now, it must be noted, supporting old legacy hardware is one thing, the other is software support. To be clear, I doubt that Windows 11 will ever drop legacy software support. Right-now, in my opinion, Microsoft is focused on ensuring the best experience to its users, improve reliability from its updates, and improve security. And to add, I think right-now, the focus is probably in ensuring that everyone has their setup properly configured, and next version (a year and half from now), I expect things to be implemented.

 

This is my analysis. I am of course, not speaking for Microsoft. I could be totally wrong... and that is fine. I can only work with the info that I have today. I think we will ALL learn more as we approach Windows 11 official launch.

[SansVarnic]

15 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Now, it must be noted, supporting old legacy hardware is one thing, the other is software support. To be clear, I doubt that Windows 11 will ever drop legacy software support. Right-now, in my opinion, Microsoft is focused on ensuring the best experience to its users, improve reliability from its updates, and improve security. Right-now, the focus is probably in ensuring that everyone has their setup properly configured, and next version (a year and half from now), I expect things to be implemented.

Agreed. It would be great if my ...speculation was indeed a thing, but of course MSFT needs to keep the masses of current users happy [within reason] to continue to provide the expected user experience. /shrug

[GoodBytes]

20 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Agreed. It would be great if my ...speculation was indeed a thing, but of course MSFT needs to keep the masses of current users happy [within reason] to continue to provide the expected user experience. /shrug

So yea, now the question is, should Microsoft reconsider to allow 6th, 7th gen Intel CPUs and Ryzen 1000? Or at least allow them to be installed, with a big warning at the setup that you are on your own. Or they are actual features that these CPUs has that Microsoft wants to use later on. That is something I am sure Microsoft will look at starting Monday, and probably will take time before we have an answer.

 

It could also be as simple as they want to ensure that Android app runs properly (fast and responsive) under Windows 11, to ensure a good image on that feature. 'cause remember the x86 CPU will have to translate ARM64 instructions. If it something like that, then it is something we will see via the Insider program when that feature is available. 

 

By the way, reminder to all (of topic):  If you don't have a system meeting Windows 11 specs and want it now, then today is your last day to join the Insider program to get it. The doors will be closing the day Windows 11 Insider build comes out and it may be on Monday, so join now.

 

[MahtXL]

On 6/26/2021 at 3:35 PM, Daethz said:

"forcing tpm will force people on to other OS's" uhh, so they will buy a new computer, with a different os?

More likely they will just buy.. a new windows pc

If anyone is still using 2016 cpu's and mobos when windows 10 End of life comes in october 2025, they have bigger problems.

Why, its not like any games tax my 6700k now, why would they magically do so in a few more years? The cpus in the 9th gen consoles arent all that much better, about the same ipc. More cores and threads but i doubt we push past 8 thread min for games if we even get there this gen. 2025 is where i might start to consider and look at other CPU's, that thought is nowhere near my mind at this point. We dont need computers and parts becoming phones that get tossed every year or two for no good reason.