Unable to set full pump speed on my AIO

[ExoPastic]

Hi I have a LianLi Galahad 360mm AIO and a X570 Crosshair 8 Hero (Non-Wifi). I have set my AIO pump connector to be running at Full speed no matter what happens.

 

But when i boot up my system and it boots to Windows, I notice that my AIO Pump RPM is only at 2000plus RPM. According to Lianli, the Pump max RPM should be 3300. 

 

I went on and check on armory crate that my settings is at Standard. when i set to full speed, it also affects my CPU-fan to run at full speed, which produces alot of sound. May i know if there is a work around on this? 

 

Bios currently running at x3402

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

14 minutes ago, ExoPastic said:

I have set my AIO pump connector to be running at Full speed no matter what happens.

You did this in the BIOS? And when it is BIOS the pump runs at max?

 

15 minutes ago, ExoPastic said:

armory crate that my settings is at Standard

And when you boot the pump slows down because of Armory Crate taking over control?

 

Uninstall Armory Crate... It was crap the last time I installed it. Maybe it's gotten better, but I don't see why anyone would use it.

 

Besides, there is almost no benefit to running your pump at full, so even if you can't "fix" this, no big deal really. Even 25% speed could be enough to get the same performance as 100%.

[ExoPastic]

1 minute ago, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

You did this in the BIOS? And when it is BIOS the pump runs at max?

 

 

Yes it was running at max

 

 

2 minutes ago, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

And when you boot the pump slows down because of Armory Crate taking over control?

 

Uninstall Armory Crate... It was crap the last time I installed it. Maybe it's gotten better, but I don't see why anyone would use it.

 

Besides, there is almost no benefit to running your pump at full, so even if you can't "fix" this, no big deal really. Even 25% speed could be enough to get the same performance as 100%.

It took over control. it better to run at max RPM.

[NorKris]

8 hours ago, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

You did this in the BIOS? And when it is BIOS the pump runs at max?

 

And when you boot the pump slows down because of Armory Crate taking over control?

 

Uninstall Armory Crate... It was crap the last time I installed it. Maybe it's gotten better, but I don't see why anyone would use it.

 

Besides, there is almost no benefit to running your pump at full, so even if you can't "fix" this, no big deal really. Even 25% speed could be enough to get the same performance as 100%.

25% pump speed on an aio would be way to slow for good temps

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

35 minutes ago, NorKris said:

25% pump speed on an aio would be way to slow for good temps

I said "could be". Not "would be". 25% is absolutely enough to get the vast majority of the performance on some AIOs.

 

Pump speed can make a pretty small difference in temps. I suggest you test it for yourself, as I have.

[NorKris]

3 minutes ago, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

I said "could be". Not "would be". 25% is absolutely enough to get the vast majority of the performance on some AIOs.

 

Pump speed can make a pretty small difference in temps. I suggest you test it for yourself, as I have.

hm god idea think i will 

 

der bauer had a 6c increase in temps when running his D5 on 800 rpm vs his 2000 normally 

[NorKris]

On 6/23/2021 at 11:17 PM, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

I said "could be". Not "would be". 25% is absolutely enough to get the vast majority of the performance on some AIOs.

 

Pump speed can make a pretty small difference in temps. I suggest you test it for yourself, as I have.

Tested:
cooler master ml240l

6 cores, 1,350v, standard prime95,15m tests, 1200rpm on both fans
full pump speed: 93c
50% speed: 100c (Thermal throttle) 

 

TLDR; for loads pumps should run 90-100% 

 

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

1 hour ago, NorKris said:

Tested:
cooler master ml240l

6 cores, 1,350v, standard prime95,15m tests, 1200rpm on both fans
full pump speed: 93c
50% speed: 100c (Thermal throttle) 

 

TLDR; for loads pumps should run 90-100% 

 

At 90C+ you are already operating near the thermal limits of your system. I would not consider that to be a valid test, since it was seemingly designed to prove your hypothesis right. When doing an experiment like this, you should always do your best to prove yourself wrong to avoid bias. For a more full picture, see how the performance changes in other workloads. Use Cinebench for an even workload that isn't so crazy as Prime95. Also, try to find the minimum pump speed where you can get within 1-2C of full speed. If you are able to maintain an even ambient temp, and you plot the core temp across a range of pump speeds,  you'd find that the curve is not linear. I expect that the curve would look something like below, with the pump speed on the X-axis and the temperature on the Y-axis.

 

 

You get most of the benefits of increased pump speed toward the lower end, with smaller gains from there.

 

On 6/23/2021 at 5:23 PM, NorKris said:

der bauer had a 6c increase in temps when running his D5 on 800 rpm vs his 2000 normally

This is more telling. That running the pump at 20% speed results in only a 6C difference vs running it at 40% speed. And why does Der8uaer run his pump at 40% speed and not 100%? Because there isn't much to be gained by running it faster.

 

It's important to note that running your pump slower or faster does not increase nor decrease the total cooling capacity of your loop. The faster you run the pump, the more even the liquid temperate becomes throughout the loop. The slower, the wider the gap between the min and max temperature of the water in the loop becomes. The water moves more slowly, and so spends more time in your water blocks and gets warmer, but then it also spends more time in your radiator and gets correspondingly cooler.

 

As a thought experiment to demonstrate this. Say I have a temperature sensor that measures the temperature of the water coming out of my last radiator before it enters my reservoir, and another that measures the temperature of the water coming out of the last water block before it enters the first radiator. Now imagine I have run a consistent load on my system until it reaches a steady state (temperatures are no longer rising or falling). Imagine I am running my pump at 50% speed, and I am measuring that the water coming out of my last radiator is 28C and the water coming out of my last water block before the radiators is 32C. A 4C gap. Now I change my pump speed to 100%. I find that instead of 28C, the water coming out of my radiator is at 29C. Increasing the pump speed actually increased the temperature of the water coming out of the radiator, counterintuitively. But, the water coming out of the last water block is now 31C instead of 32C. So that temperature has decreased and the gap is reduced from 4C to 2C. The average temperature in both cases remains the same. (28C + 32C) / 2 = (29C + 31C) / 2 = 30C. This is because in both scenarios, the total cooling capacity of the loop has not changed. Total energy in and total energy out has remained constant.

 

Physics is fun. 

 

[NorKris]

48 minutes ago, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

At 90C+ you are already operating near the thermal limits of your system. I would not consider that to be a valid test, since it was seemingly designed to prove your hypothesis right. When doing an experiment like this, you should always do your best to prove yourself wrong to avoid bias. For a more full picture, see how the performance changes in other workloads. Use Cinebench for an even workload that isn't so crazy as Prime95. Also, try to find the minimum pump speed where you can get within 1-2C of full speed. If you are able to maintain an even ambient temp, and you plot the core temp across a range of pump speeds,  you'd find that the curve is not linear. I expect that the curve would look something like below, with the pump speed on the X-axis and the temperature on the Y-axis.

 

 

You get most of the benefits of increased pump speed toward the lower end, with smaller gains from there.

 

This is more telling. That running the pump at 20% speed results in only a 6C difference vs running it at 40% speed. And why does Der8uaer run his pump at 40% speed and not 100%? Because there isn't much to be gained by running it faster.

 

It's important to note that running your pump slower or faster does not increase nor decrease the total cooling capacity of your loop. The faster you run the pump, the more even the liquid temperate becomes throughout the loop. The slower, the wider the gap between the min and max temperature of the water in the loop becomes. The water moves more slowly, and so spends more time in your water blocks and gets warmer, but then it also spends more time in your radiator and gets correspondingly cooler.

 

As a thought experiment to demonstrate this. Say I have a temperature sensor that measures the temperature of the water coming out of my last radiator before it enters my reservoir, and another that measures the temperature of the water coming out of the last water block before it enters the first radiator. Now imagine I have run a consistent load on my system until it reaches a steady state (temperatures are no longer rising or falling). Imagine I am running my pump at 50% speed, and I am measuring that the water coming out of my last radiator is 28C and the water coming out of my last water block before the radiators is 32C. A 4C gap. Now I change my pump speed to 100%. I find that instead of 28C, the water coming out of my radiator is at 29C. Increasing the pump speed actually increased the temperature of the water coming out of the radiator, counterintuitively. But, the water coming out of the last water block is now 31C instead of 32C. So that temperature has decreased and the gap is reduced from 4C to 2C. The average temperature in both cases remains the same. (28C + 32C) / 2 = (29C + 31C) / 2 = 30C. This is because in both scenarios, the total cooling capacity of the loop has not changed. Total energy in and total energy out has remained constant.

 

Physics is fun. 

 

I do agree with 85% of that.
The thingy  with the D5 vs AIO is the L/H they can deliver, and slowing the AIO's so much would give so little water flow and temps will increase. 40-100% range on a DC would prob give 1c  maaybe. but for an AIO pump...(might be diff on the EK EIO's..)
Not so sure about the Prime vs cine, I mean the Small FFTs are the worst, but the "blend" that I used, I feel is nicer on the CPU than cine. 

 

did a new test, this time at 1,175v (140w down from 180)

Full speed: 74
50%: 77

And i feel that 25% would just be  nahnahnope