Circuit Breaker Frequently Tripping After Upgrading Ryzen 3600 to 5600x

[CommanderAlex]

1 minute ago, CWasson said:

Harbor Freight can be garbage. Is this one ok?

That is the one!!! I got one myself from HF and they work like the rest of them you find online. Same brand/company makes it to sell at HF. 

[Bombastinator]

36 minutes ago, CWasson said:

 

 

 

 

 

Alright all you lovely people, I've got some pictures of the breaker box for ya.

 

Square d home line.  That supports cheap.  Looks like lots of space in the box for more circuits though. 

[Bombastinator]

10 hours ago, Derkoli said:

I believe in the US, ALCI is only required for bathroom circuits, why the entire residence isn't protected by ALCI is beyond me. In the UK, and other countries, the entire house is required to have RCD protection. I had to chuck some real beefy RCD's into my fuse box when installing 32A 240V 3-phase into my home.

 

It is impossible with correctly done wiring. Homes in the US typically have "split phase" 115-0-115V input. So they can connect lighter loads, such as a TV, to just a single line. Then connect really high power stuff between the two lines and get 230V for high power stuff, such as showers or electric ovens.

 

In the US, for three-phase inputs, they often use the same trick that europeans use, which is earthing the mid-point of one of the secondary windings (high leg delta config IIRC) to give 120, 208 and 240V depending on which line/lines you connect to. And then they have a 240/415/480V version of the same thing for really power hungry appliances, such as things like MEWP chargers.

I’m not so familiar with 3 phase myself.  I’ve only dealt with the US 2 180° “phases”.  I’m not a real electrician.  Just a landlord.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Bombastinator]

16 minutes ago, CWasson said:

Harbor Freight can be garbage. Is this one ok?

Very true.  Yep.  That’s it.  You may be able to check one out of your local library for free though.  At least you can here.  There are a lot of different brands of them “kill-a-watt” is just a brand name.  It’s a real brand though so it’s not some harbor freight house brand crap.

[CWasson]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

Very true.  Yep.  That’s it.  You may be able to check one out of your local library for free though.  At least you can here.  There are a lot of different brands of them “kill-a-watt” is just a brand name.  It’s a real brand though so it’s not some harbor freight house brand crap though.

I'd like to have one for future issues honestly. Buying it after work today, popping it into my bathroom 20a circuit, and running some games to see what happens. Is there a memory on board? Like, if my PC suddenly pulls a shit ton of power, and the circuit trips, will the killawatt just shut off, or will it show me what the last draw wattage was so I can see if there was a spike?

[Bombastinator]

31 minutes ago, CWasson said:

I'd like to have one for future issues honestly. Buying it after work today, popping it into my bathroom 20a circuit, and running some games to see what happens. Is there a memory on board? Like, if my PC suddenly pulls a shit ton of power, and the circuit trips, will the killawatt just shut off, or will it show me what the last draw wattage was so I can see if there was a spike?

I dunno.  I don’t own one.  If I need one I check it out of the library.  I already got too many tools.  I can also do that with an infra red camera to look for escaping heat in my outer walls.

 

You could use it to find out how much stuff is really drawing.  They’re great for finding “ghost power” devices that only claim to turn off. Lot of those these days. Your computer will be one btw.  I was thinking once you know what you’ve got on that particular circuit you could measure stuff to see what might be cheapest to change.  It’s somewhat rare to have more than one circuit in a given room or even series of smaller rooms. That one circuit could do any number of rooms.  You might be able to solve your problem simply by plugging your tv in somewhere else or something.  

Edited April 6, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Mark Kaine]

34 minutes ago, CWasson said:

Should I try a 20a circuit and see if those trip?

Well, yeah that would be the first course of action imo.  

 

Also I don't know how a kill a watt would help,  your pc can't possibly draw more than 500w so if that trips the breaker it still means something isn't working as it should. 

 

But if you're lucky those 20a won't have the same problem. 

*fingers crossed*

[Mark Kaine]

14 minutes ago, CWasson said:

I'd like to have one for future issues honestly. Buying it after work today, popping it into my bathroom 20a circuit, and running some games to see what happens. Is there a memory on board? Like, if my PC suddenly pulls a shit ton of power, and the circuit trips, will the killawatt just shut off, or will it show me what the last draw wattage was so I can see if there was a spike?

I don't have one either,  but I'm fairly certain they store the last measurement, it's why people recommend this specific brand i guess. 

And while I don't think your pc draws more than it should,  i agree it's maybe good to have a peace of mind. 

 

[Bombastinator]

28 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Well, yeah that would be the first course of action imo.  

 

Also I don't know how a kill a watt would help,  your pc can't possibly draw more than 500w so if that trips the breaker it still means something isn't working as it should. 

 

But if you're lucky those 20a won't have the same problem. 

*fingers crossed*

I wouldn’t call it a SAFE course of action.  Breakers are sized to wiring thickness.  It’s not impossible I suppose that they used 12g wire instead of 14g wire (it’s what I did, but i also put in emt everywhere and use thhn) I also won’t use squareD hom line either though.  It’s the cheapest thing that’s legal and it’s only barely legal.  That it’s in there says you’ve likely got 14g Romex for your 15amp circuits unless they found something even cheaper.  One area where squareD hom line falls down is it’s not so good at frequent repetitive overload SS which is what seems to have happened.  Might be time for a new breaker.  Make your landlord pay for it (you should be able to do that) rather than buy it yourself though.  They’re not expensive but why do his building upkeep for him? *is not particularly loyal to other landlords*

Edited April 6, 2021 by Bombastinator

[CWasson]

23 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I wouldn’t call it a SAFE course of action.  Breakers are sized to wiring thickness.  It’s not impossible I suppose that they used 12g wire instead of 14g wire (it’s what I did, but i also put in emt everywhere and use thhn) I also won’t use squareD hom line either though.  It’s the cheapest thing that’s legal and it’s only barely legal.  That it’s in there says you’ve likely got 14g Romex for your 15amp circuits unless they found something even cheaper. 

Hopefully those cheap squareD's are the culprit. I've been at the place for over 2 years at this point, running a similarly demanding PC on that same circuit the whole time, so maybe I'm just really putting that thing through its paces and it finally gave up the ghost.

 

From what I've read, those can be replaced without too much fuss, so maybe my maintenance guy can do that without contracting it.

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, CWasson said:

Hopefully those cheap squareD's are the culprit. I've been at the place for over 2 years at this point, running a similarly demanding PC on that same circuit the whole time, so maybe I'm just really putting that thing through its paces and it finally gave up the ghost.

 

From what I've read, those can be replaced without too much fuss, so maybe my maintenance guy can do that without contracting it.

That...  might actually be the case.  I don’t know if they fail towards smaller voltages or not though.  Hence the kill-a-watt to make sure you aren’t actually pulling more than 1500w. All I really know is they’re garbage. Nice thing about a kill-a-watt though is you can actually lower your monthly electric bill with one.  If you can cut your bill even $5 with it it pays for itself in less than a year.

[CWasson]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

That...  might actually be the case.  I don’t know if they fail towards smaller voltages or not though.  Hence the kill-a-watt to make sure you aren’t actually pulling more than 1500w. All I really know is they’re garbage. 

And odds that anything in my PC is the culprit are slim to none right? Both PSUs are relatively high end and 80+ Gold, so they would just result in a PC crash, not a circuit break, if there was another component in the PC malfunctioning? My last step before putting all of the blame on my apartment wiring would be putting the Ryzen 3600 back in and seeing what happens.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, CWasson said:

And odds that anything in my PC is the culprit are slim to none right? Both PSUs are relatively high end and 80+ Gold, so they would just result in a PC crash, not a circuit break, if there was another component in the PC malfunctioning? My last step before putting all of the blame on my apartment wiring would be putting the Ryzen 3600 back in and seeing what happens.

I dunno, but the PSU is just a really powerful AC->DC converter.  The entire computer draws power through it and a decent one will shut down before drawing more power than it’s rated for.  The circuit is i. The wall though and could go anywhere including someone else’s apartment (it wouldn’t be legal but it’s not impossible.  When I bought my building I found an illegal tap off the main hidden behind a wall that was used to power a welder for the garage.    I removed that.

[CWasson]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I dunno, but the PSU is just a really powerful AC->DC converter.  The entire computer draws power through it and a decent one will shut down before drawing more power than it’s rated for.  The circuit is i. The wall though and could go anywhere including someone else’s apartment (it wouldn’t be legal but it’s not impossible.  When I bought my building I found an illegal tap off the main hidden behind a wall that was used to power a welder for the garage.    I removed that.

I've always suspected we're powering the lights in the community hallway, and there's a "rec room" right on the other side of the wall I also suspect we're paying electricity for.

 

Any legal action worth taking should I find that to be the case? I doubt in my lease, considering we pay for electricity, that it says we're responsible for paying for power for a communal space, and our electricity bill skyrockets during the winter months, potentially because we're also paying to heat that room and the hallway

[Heliian]

I doubt you'll see high draw from your pc through a watt meter, I think your pc is fine, the monitor might be drawing alot too.

 

The arc fault breakers that are installed are being triggered by some momentary spike that you wouldn't notice on a normal circuit.  

 

The best option is to install a normal 15amp breaker on that circuit.(non gfci).  

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, CWasson said:

I've always suspected we're powering the lights in the community hallway, and there's a "rec room" right on the other side of the wall I also suspect we're paying electricity for.

 

Any legal action worth taking should I find that to be the case? I doubt in my lease, considering we pay for electricity, that it says we're responsible for paying for power for a communal space, and our electricity bill skyrockets during the winter months, potentially because we're also paying to heat that room and the hallway

Easy way to check:  go turn the lights on in the Rex room, go to you box, flip the breaker, and see if the rec room lights go out.  If they do your landlord owes you money.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, Heliian said:

I doubt you'll see high draw from your pc through a watt meter, I think your pc is fine, the monitor might be drawing alot too.

 

The arc fault breakers that are installed are being triggered by some momentary spike that you wouldn't notice on a normal circuit.  

 

The best option is to install a normal 15amp breaker on that circuit.(non gfci).  

I hate arc fault sooo much.  They cost 8 times what regular breakers do. Maybe it’s gotten better if that code went National.  For a while it was only Minnesota through and the things were near $100 a pop.  The only reason they even exist is because somewhere in some house there was an uninsulated outlet with an outlet to the outside so the thing collected dust bunnies for 30 years and finally caught fire. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Bombastinator

[CWasson]

13 minutes ago, Heliian said:

I doubt you'll see high draw from your pc through a watt meter, I think your pc is fine, the monitor might be drawing alot too.

 

The arc fault breakers that are installed are being triggered by some momentary spike that you wouldn't notice on a normal circuit.  

 

The best option is to install a normal 15amp breaker on that circuit.(non gfci).  

Thanks, I'll mention that to the maintenance guy when the time comes. Hopefully he's willing and doesn't have his hands tied by code for the city or something.

[CWasson]

9 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Easy way to check:  go turn the lights on in the Rex room, go to you box, flip the breaker, and see if the rec room lights go out.  If they do your landlord owes you money.

Will do after work today.

[Mark Kaine]

Haha, I've suspected something else being on these wires the whole time,  it's not like a circuit breaker is strictly for one room or anything,  because i still can't see this pc drawing more than 500 (likely less) and a monitor draws like 150 max I'm guessing...

 

8 minutes ago, CWasson said:

Will do after work today.

The plot thickens...

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, CWasson said:

Will do after work today.

You could also check the outlets if there are any.  You’d need a tester though.  They’re cheap.  They look something like this

[CWasson]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Haha, I've suspected something else being on these wires the whole time,  it's not like a circuit breaker is strictly for one room or anything,  because i still can't see this pc drawing more than 500 (likely less) and a monitor draws like 150 max I'm guessing...

 

The plot thickens...

Right, and since I've been trouble shooting, I've tried it with just 1 monitor, 2 monitors, my TV setup plugged in, unplugged, etc. All configurations lead to the same result. A difference of a few watts from a CPU upgrade vs completely unplugging an entire monitor is far more significant in terms of draw on the circuit. Gotta be something else.

[Bitter]

@BrianTheElectrician

Any thoughts?

[BrianTheElectrician]

First off, I'm assuming that your located in Canada or the US as the electrical codes are similar. Sorry if you've mentioned it already but I've just had time to skim through.

 

Your building having been built in the last 2 years should have arc fault breakers on any common area plug circuits, especially bedrooms. These breakers are labelled as afci and have a test button on them, similar to a gfci breaker. I've seen them trip before on circuits with switching power supplies and in fact hhad that in a suite we lived in where the arc fault breaker would trip when uusing our laser printer. Switching to a normal breaker it never tripped and I swapped it back before we moved. Either something is on the circuit that the afci breaker is not happy about, or the circuit is indeed being overloaded.

 

You mentioned you ran a cord to a different plug but a breaker still tripped. Was it the same breaker? If so then the outlet you plugged into was on the same circuit that you were plugged into originally.

 

Breakers do get weak over time due to heat as well if they're run close to their rating and can start to trip at currents lower than they're supposed to. 

 

From my understanding, the newer arc faults are better at not nuisance tripping so if that's what you have it may be worth looking at replacing it. The other option would be to replace with a new normal breaker, though it would technically be against code to do so, but in a situation like this I don't see many other options.

 

I would start by seeing what type of breaker you have, and what exactly else is on that circuit. From that you can determine if it's overloaded or a nuisance trip. It's possible your upgrade could have caused it but I'd say a slim chance, it would have already had to of been on the ragged edge of tripping before.

 

Arc faults typically don't like switching power supplies but you generally need a lot of them for it to be an issue. Motor loads especially don't seem to agree with them... Fans, vacuums etc.

 

The best way to know for sure is to clamp the circuit and see what the actual draw is when it trips. For that however you would need to open the panel which I would only recommend for someone who knows what they're doing.

[CWasson]

20 minutes ago, BrianTheElectrician said:

First off, I'm assuming that your located in Canada or the US as the electrical codes are similar. Sorry if you've mentioned it already but I've just had time to skim through.

 

Your building having been built in the last 2 years should have arc fault breakers on any common area plug circuits, especially bedrooms. These breakers are labelled as afci and have a test button on them, similar to a gfci breaker. I've seen them trip before on circuits with switching power supplies and in fact hhad that in a suite we lived in where the arc fault breaker would trip when uusing our laser printer. Switching to a normal breaker it never tripped and I swapped it back before we moved. Either something is on the circuit that the afci breaker is not happy about, or the circuit is indeed being overloaded.

 

You mentioned you ran a cord to a different plug but a breaker still tripped. Was it the same breaker? If so then the outlet you plugged into was on the same circuit that you were plugged into originally.

 

Breakers do get weak over time due to heat as well if they're run close to their rating and can start to trip at currents lower than they're supposed to. 

 

From my understanding, the newer arc faults are better at not nuisance tripping so if that's what you have it may be worth looking at replacing it. The other option would be to replace with a new normal breaker, though it would technically be against code to do so, but in a situation like this I don't see many other options.

 

I would start by seeing what type of breaker you have, and what exactly else is on that circuit. From that you can determine if it's overloaded or a nuisance trip. It's possible your upgrade could have caused it but I'd say a slim chance, it would have already had to of been on the ragged edge of tripping before.

 

Arc faults typically don't like switching power supplies but you generally need a lot of them for it to be an issue. Motor loads especially don't seem to agree with them... Fans, vacuums etc.

 

The best way to know for sure is to clamp the circuit and see what the actual draw is when it trips. For that however you would need to open the panel which I would only recommend for someone who knows what they're doing.

Just because I'm dumb, can you clarify that when you say "the same breaker", you mean the same switch labeled "bedroom", etc? Not the entire box, right? All of the breakers in the box have a test button on them with the exception of the higher amp circuits that are labeled AC, laundry, stove, and I do not have access to those plugs.

 

Would there be separate breaker switches for different rooms that might actually be on the same circuit? If there's a breaker that's going out, would running my PC on a different breaker, like my 20a bathroom one (despite also having a test button) be safe until the 15a bedroom breaker is replaced? Or is it more like if one goes bad, all nearby breakers need replacing?

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

Edit: now that you mention it, the bathroom breaker has always tripped when the bedroom one did, but the breaker for the bathroom says 20a while the bedroom says 15a. Is it likely that those are on the same circuit despite having different amperages? I attached a photo of my breaker box for clarity.