Apple hate.

[Sir_Fudipus]

Nexus,

I agree, the car analogy is weak.

 

If you don't get Apple that is also ok. Not everyone "gets" it, but the people who use Apple usually like the products very much.

Look at consumer polls.

 

It is all about simplicity and "peace of mind" for these people, also maybe about the design (not for me anyway).

 

It is absolutely understandable that on this forum and with people who like technology windows is used overwhelmingly, but i don't think most of the people are Windows evangelists. It is the de facto standard if you want to build your own PC.

 

I would argue that these people like technology, and see Windows as a "necessity" to help them achieve freedom with technology. Not really a lot of really "passionate" Microsoft or Windows-enthusiasts around here IMHO. I would also really disagree with people who argue like that because Windows is just a hot mess. Period.

 

Let's just agree to disagree. I am here for LinusTECHtips, and not for LinusWINDOWStips, APPLEtips or ANDROIDtips. Diversity is good.

 

I also really appreciate that you take place in this discussion in a civil way. As for the mentioned security issues, i really think you are misinformed. No system is 100% secure, but the Apple ecosystem is close to it, for many reasons. Tight moderation is a good thing in this regard. This is important for me and many people: 

 

http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/01/apple-com-does-more-to-protect-your-password-study-of-top-100-sites-finds/

 

I think, if you do not know a lot about technology in general - or just don't CARE, the Apple way is by far the most secure way you can go with personal technology.

 

Rock on!

[Hoppa]

-snip-

He sometime mentioned in a WAN Show that he cannot believe the fan noise and temps at the new Mac Pro will be as low as advertised, and when he got the chance to actually see a Mac Pro in action, he gave Apple props for the engineering in a later show. That is one thing i like about him.

Yeah I absolutely agree that performance drawn from its small form factor and the quietness are amazing. It's kind of like the power to weight ratio used to measure car performance. (if you know what I mean)

The only way Apple could achieve this was by using a non-standardized layout (standard - having everything plug in and sit on the motherboard.)

 

Of course, not having a standard layout means the room for expansion / part swapping is very small. Depending what your needs are, this doesn't matter or it's an inconvenience to you.

And I'm sure the people who buy the Mac pro are people who won't want to swap out their GPU/s in the future. They'll buy the next Mac pro or the one after if they feel like they need more performance (as programs tend to get more CPU / GPU intensive)

 

So yeah, personally for me, I like the option to go: "hey, my GPUs are almost 2 generations old, I might sell them and get the new 800 series from nvidia or the new 300 series from AMD, because they support the new technologies eg. mantle, gsync etc"

You can upgrade macs to a certain extent, but since it's such a specific motherboard they'd probably be only 1 type of supported RAM (which happens to be ECC aka expensive) and 1 brand of SSD that'll be recognized by the computer. (which has to be a PCi-E SSD)

So for those sorts of reasons I've never been too keen on getting a Mac.

 

I have been thinking about making a hackintosh as a dual boot computer so I can play around with the OS. But a lot of things in the OS do kind of drive me crazy, which I'll have to try and find work-arounds for. 

[Sir_Fudipus]

Most people - i think - do not get what the Mac Pro is all about.

 

Production Studios get it. They often pay for themselves after the first job / a few weeks.

These computers do not get upgraded - ever. Also have not been in the past.

They get completely replaced after two, three years, you plugin the peripherals, restore your backup - and bingo. 

 

As i said, i worked in advertising for a long time. This is my personal observation.

This machine is NOT for the average consumer and can not be explained with a consumer mindset.

 

This cannot be overstated enough.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013

[chicksoup]

Some of the minor things just make you frustrating. Sudden crash of MS word. 32/64 bit compatible BS. Can't connect to wifi while phone does. Need 64bit patch in order to make Visual studio link to databse, BSOD out of no where, no "forget network button", apps almost crashed while changing font, etc. Even a simple forget network button, and they fucked it up in Windows 8.1 , the latest of their OS. 

when was the last time you used windows? those are ancient, extinct problems and you might want to consider looking into using windows now on a new machine

[Dragonzeanse]

I hate the Apple haters just as much as the Apple fanboys. Can everyone please just STFU? It's that kind of fanaticism that makes people unable to make educated purchasing decisions.

[Nexus]

Nexus,

I agree, the car analogy is weak.

 

If you don't get Apple that is also ok. Not everyone "gets" it, but the people who use Apple usually like the products very much.

Look at consumer polls.

 

It is all about simplicity and "peace of mind" for these people, also maybe about the design (not for me anyway).

 

It is absolutely understandable that on this forum and with people who like technology windows is used overwhelmingly, but i don't think most of the people are Windows evangelists. It is the de facto standard if you want to build your own PC.

 

I would argue that these people like technology, and see Windows as a "necessity" to help them achieve freedom with technology. Not really a lot of really "passionate" Microsoft or Windows-enthusiasts around here IMHO. I would also really disagree with people who argue like that because Windows is just a hot mess. Period.

 

Let's just agree to disagree. I am here for LinusTECHtips, and not for LinusWINDOWStips, APPLEtips or ANDROIDtips. Diversity is good.

 

I also really appreciate that you take place in this discussion in a civil way. As for the mentioned security issues, i really think you are misinformed. No system is 100% secure, but the Apple ecosystem is close to it, for many reasons. Tight moderation is a good thing in this regard. This is important for me and many people: 

 

http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/01/apple-com-does-more-to-protect-your-password-study-of-top-100-sites-finds/

 

I think, if you do not know a lot about technology in general - or just don't CARE, the Apple way is by far the most secure way you can go with personal technology.

 

Rock on!

I think the simplicity argument works only to a certain extent. On the mobile side, IOS is easier to use than Android but not so compared to Windows Phone. As for the desktop, i wouldn't say that OSX is easier to use. I actually find it fairly similar to windows (i prefer windows ux over osx but i wouldn't say that either is better or worse than the other)

As for ease of mind. Both IOS and OSX have had many security flaws over the years. Even when using these platforms you should still be security minded and help protect yourself and your data. 

 

The problem here is people expect OSX to be safe and secure and are less likely to take the same precautions as on a windows machine (yes im aware this more to do with the user than the OS itself but its still relevant). This is due to Apple marketing their machines are more secure (they used to advertise that there were no viruses for Macs, which is completely untrue).

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/smartphones/1306093/apple-patching-serious-ios-os-x-security-flaw

 

 

I do agree with you on your point about Windows. Most people dislike windows (especially windows 8/8.1), and like you said Windows is used primary because of its status in the market. My point here would be that it achieved that level of dominance because its relatively easy to use (compared to many other operating systems - linux/unix) while still offering the ability to be run on a huge number of machines (even more so now with ARM support on windows RT). Beyond this the huge selection of software helps to maintain that dominance. I don't necessarily think these are bad things though.

 

"Windows is just a hot mess. Period."

Windows 8/8.1 this is arguable and personally i would agree. Windows 7 no.

 

"I think, if you do not know a lot about technology in general - or just don't CARE, the Apple way is by far the most secure way you can go with personal technology."

This statement is a little to broad sweeping imo. Ive had non-tech literate friends struggle to use a Mac before. Granted this is a smaller number (only two) but again i don't know that many people that use macs.

 

 

I will agree with you that diversity is a good thing and benefits everyone as it forces companies to innovate.

[ShadowCaptain]

I find myself in the same boat as the OP

 

I love building gaming rigs + servers and doing all sorts of stuff like that. But I don't see myself dropping apple products at any point, from all the phones ive owned over the years, symbian, blackberry, android, windows phone (even old windows 6) and ios, the iPhone for me is perfect as is my iPad, it integrates into all my stuff great (even my windows pcs and server) and it syncs with all my family so easily. I dont want my phone to be a PC i want it to carry out tasks and apps simply i dont need to tinker and customize every 43 seconds.

 

As for macs they will always have a special place in my heart. I currently don't have one (sold my mac mini for some weird reason, i wish i didnt). I think they ARE simpler, call it cliche but mac systems just ... work. You turn them on, 30 seconds later you are up and running and for what 99% of pc users use, it come with what you need. apples version of office, photo editing, video editing, music editing, a really nice browse (safari on mac is great, rubbish on windows though), fantastic file browser (with tabs!)  i could go on.

 

I wish everyone had a chance to live with them for a few weeks and see how they felt. Forget about gaming (although gaming on macs is really good these days) and forget about spec sheets.

 

That is what i love most about apple. most people dont have to scrutinize the spec sheet for 3 hours, you just go... ooh i want the light one, or the powerful one, or the mini one, or the all in one, or the pro - you just buy the product that suits you lifestyle - for what most people do it will be a fantastic trouble free and lovely experiance

 

I will always use more than one system, i love technology too much to only use one platform,  have linux, windows, osx, android and linux in my house and i wouldnt have it any other way

 

actually i like apple and alienware therefore nobody likes me

TECH FORTHE WIN

[TheMagDude]

Wow a lot of posts... Amen...

[Almercenary]

I don't hate Apple, I actually like them. And please do NOT use black text when you are making a thread anymore. It makes it hard for us dark theme users to read.

-snip-

I was like, why did he just type You can have a shrine and be an Apple fanboy at the same time.In the middle of the page lol

 

RACIST 

jk

We should all write out posts in white writing and piss off them.

 

 

As for apple.  I can't use it.  Everything is will wally everywhere and I hate it.  I'm sure some of there products are OK but when I can buy an ultra book that is the same cost and better performance then install linux on there, mac's for me become generally redundant and over priced. 

[Darren]

Just look at the evidence. The majority of users on this forum or others like it prefer windows over osx. The majority of users on this forum are tech enthusiasts and either enjoy it as a hobby or as a profession. We are the informed and knowledgeable elite. 

 

Jesus christ, this forum is most certainly not the knowledgeable elite. It's a bunch of fanboy gamers who have a single choice of platform due to Microsofts market share and there is no other reason why this forum has such a large Windows cult following.

 

If we saw every game that came out this year be built for Linux, (let's pick Debian since Steam OS is based off it), GPU vendors provide decent drivers for their chips, I bet a good chunk would switch over because Debian (or Steam OS, whatever) is simply faster. Helps when you don't saturate your operating system with necessary crap.

 

"I think, if you do not know a lot about technology in general - or just don't CARE, the Apple way is by far the most secure way you can go with personal technology."

This statement is a little to broad sweeping imo. Ive had non-tech literate friends struggle to use a Mac before. Granted this is a smaller number (only two) but again i don't know that many people that use macs.

 

He touches on security, not usability.

[EricX2]

Why do people keep coming onto this forum where a significant number of people BUILD THEIR OWN COMPUTERS (yes emphasis intended) then wonder why nobody likes Macs?

 

I HATE with a passion the idea of building a hackintosh that (as I've said a million times before) could stop working at any time because it it 100% against Apples license agreement. It's just like using a pirated copy of Windows, it may work one day then stop working the next.

 

I am NOT buying a computer unless I can build it myself. If Apple would legally let me buy a licensed copy of OS X and I would STILL put Ubuntu on a system before I put OS X on it.

[juretrn]

@ OP

You make a first post, and what is it about? Pissing off half the forum? Way to go, bro. At least make it after your introductoy topic, lol. But you make it in the same breath. Balls, man. 

I realise why you are making this, but do you know you are doing it wrong? A Mac is a PC, carefully engineered, but helluva overpriced. Desktop PCs of other brands are normally just a mess, nothing special. I could also venture into Apple's proprietary nonsense and so on, but I won't. Also. This is a forum of PC ENTHUSIASTS.What you're doing is basically going to a home-made racer or tuner event and pissing everyone off by telling them how much better your xyz brand sportscar is than theirs for some random reason. 

[The_Evenger]

welcome to the community

everyone is entitled to their one opinion, but I half to ask, have you updated windows completely before trying to use it for that kind of stuff? I have never had MS word crash before, or anything like that. and I will agree, that windows 8 is the most touchy OS in the world, just tickle it wrong and it will BSOD on you, but once I have installed all my programs, and get it all settled in, It never really has any kind of issues when It comes to crashing.

 

if you ask me it's user error, just like how anytime I use a MAC, I somehow magically freeze it, and the owner of the MAC will react something like: "How the F did you do that!!!? I never had it do that !" and it happens every singe time I try to use one for legitimate work.

 

OH, and have you ever Hackintoshed a PC? I couldn't imagine buying macs to replace every PC I own, it would cost me thousands

 

once again WELCOME!

[Yoinkerman]

My issues with mac computers(ignoring the garbage spouted from the mouths of apple) are that you pay more to get less.  If you're buying a computer to check facebook and watch movies/music, there's no way an overpriced apple anything can compete with PCs in any meaningful metric other than an overstimulated "I need pretty things" sense.  You spend more to get the same hardware, and are locked out of so much flexibility that it's silly.  You're basically stuck with the itunes/apple ecosystem, which is crap.  Perhaps it's not complete crap, but it's totally locked down and gives you no freedom.  Woohoo for proprietary formats and DRM.  You can't play games.  You can't just use whatever windows program created in the past 9999 years.  Can a mac even use flash yet?

 

That isn't to say macs aren't useful in some cases.  If you computer legitimately brings you paycheques (amateur photoshop/video "editors" need not apply, real paycheques) then perhaps a Mac makes sense.  It's supposedly good for entry level DJs, and as a business expense, using whatever software suite that you're most comfortable with also makes sense.  The problem is this isn't who apple is marketing to.  They are convincing (handily) complete amateurs and people who think it's "cool" to have apple stuff.  "Omg my phone is so hip and sleek and sexy"  FFS ITS A PHONE NO ONE CARES.(some people care and they're wrong )

 

Sell apple products to appropriate customers.  If you have a legitimate need for one, or you get one at not a ridiculously overpriced amount, cool good for you.  If you're buying for a different reason, uh grats on throwing money away and liking it?  I guess?

 

Did I mention closed garbage ecosystem?

[tkhakr]

there phones are great but their macs, i just hate.

[jbr]

First home computer I used was the original Apple.

 

And I saw Star Wars in the theater at least 12 times and I had Luke Skywalker underoos.

 

 

So there

[dizmo]

Jesus christ, this forum is most certainly not the knowledgeable elite. It's a bunch of fanboy gamers who have a single choice of platform due to Microsofts market share and there is no other reason why this forum has such a large Windows cult following.

 

If we saw every game that came out this year be built for Linux, (let's pick Debian since Steam OS is based off it), GPU vendors provide decent drivers for their chips, I bet a good chunk would switch over because Debian (or Steam OS, whatever) is simply faster. Helps when you don't saturate your operating system with necessary crap.

 

I wouldn't say that's why there's such a large following. Even if gaming was at the same level on a Mac, I'd still use Windows. I prefer it.

 

@Sir_Fudipus

I have to disagree with them having the best build quality. I love the Series 9 from Samsung, for example. I'd probably choose that over a MacBook.

I'm also quite fond of a lot of Lenovo's products.

I argue your technologically superior laptop comment. How exactly are they superior? I believe Samsung has a higher resolution for their 13.3" model. They use the same interior components otherwise.

I don't enjoy the experience with the Apple operating system. So I don't find the premium price worth it. That's me, and I know there are tons of people that share my opinion.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[snes]

I noticed that Slick is not at all this way. He doesn't like Apple and does not hide it. It would be nice if he would have a little bit more objectivity in this regard - personal taste is important, but if you are about to review stuff it should not cloud your judgement.

 

To be fair, Slick/Luke seems to be one of the more open minded people on here. He might not want to use Apple products himself, but I'm sure he wouldn't make fun of others just because they used an iPhone or iPad.

 

Myself? Windows 7 PC, Android phone, iPad2 and pile of consoles and handhelds. Really interested in that rumored fanless new Macbook Air. I don't give a damn about who makes what as long as I enjoy using their products. Competition is good for us consumers.

[NeoZeon]

I think windows laptops in recent years has caught up to Apple laptops. 3 years ago, beginning of 2011, there was nothing like my macbook pro on the market: i7, 6750m, 512 ssd (admittedly i bought that after market), less than an inch thick and 6 hours battery life, and high resolution (1650x1080 lol now) screen.  I know that sounds kind of average for what a professional class notebook now, but the equivalent PC would have been 2 inches thick and got 2-3 hours of battery life. It might have been more powerful, but it wouldnt be anywhere near as portable.  My macbook pro is my only computer; I've played many games and reasonable settings on it. Its an OK gaming laptop, but an exceptional workhorse.  Even after 3 years, i still get close to 5 hours of battery life ( I have 370 cycles on the battery).  In general, I feel that macbook batteries tend to be head and shoulders above the rest of the field, but I don't have much experience so I don't know that for sure.

 

Apple did it again with their rMBP, and while there are certainly competitors, I'm not so sure they are significantly cheaper/better than what apple has. Razer's 14 inch has a touch screen which i think would be great for when i'm mobile; but It doesn't quite have the battery performance (my friends top end rMBP gets 9 hours, no joke). 

 

I think of the majority of apple hate here comes from the fact that most people here are young. Gaming is the dominate use for their computer, and they don't use tech support. Having good tech support if you are a professional often saves you money: layers can make 500+ dollars per hour, so having 2 hours downtime instead of 5 hours downtime can easily be the difference between a mac setup and a PC set up. Those numbers I just gave are random, not specific, and just meant to illustrate an idea. I'm not sure if Apple's support is actually better, but I think thats the general thought. I've never used apple's tech support. a few months ago my left fan started making a weird noise, so i bought a replacement for 50 bucks and threw it in. No need for apple care.

 

I like my iphone, and my Ipad, and my macbook. I don't think I'll ever buy a windows computer if i can help it. At work (research lab) we all use linux. If i change from OSX, it will be to linux. If i do that, I might consider buying something other than an apple laptop, but even then I still might buy the apple hardware just because of the performance + battery life + form factor.

 

IMO windows has caught up in terms of ultrabooks, but in actual workstation class notebooks no one quite has the same form factor as apple except maybe Razer. Perhaps there is a company I dont know about.  Either way, It's hard to imagine the windows equivalent being much cheaper/more expensive.  When you are spending 2-3k on a laptop, no one is going to stress a few hundred bucks for preference, especially if its your work computer.

[Sir_Fudipus]

My setup btw:

http://linustechtips.com/main/gallery/album/1182-casual-rig/

[Admire]

My setup btw:

http://linustechtips.com/main/gallery/album/1182-casual-rig/

 

Sitting that close to the tv will make you go blind.....or is that masturbating