Unable to set Ram to 3600MHz. Wont get signal to monitor, cant boot into bios when I try.

[Crimson99]

I was installing cooler onto my cpu. The stock cooler was a little stuck so with some twisting I was able to get it off, however, it kind of jerked off and slipped out of my hand onto the side of the motherboard. Checked the cpu just to make sure and nothing seemed out of place. Once installed I boot the pc up and the CPU debug led is on and I'm getting no signal to my monitor or keyboard. The debug led gives me no other info other than something is wrong with the cpu. I unscrewed the cooler thinking maybe it was too tight, still no dice. So I called a friend and he thinks it could be the motherboard, I get a new motherboard (Tuf gaming b450 plus II) now the computer boots up into windows just fine. While I'm in the bios I enable DOCP profile and save and exit.

 

Now here is where the problem starts, my PC also starts boot looping before shutting down and getting no signal to monitor and keyboard and I'm unable to boot into the bios, the issue before I got the new motherboard sans the boot loop. I have a spare set of ram that I used and was able to boot into the bios and then into windows. So now I enter the bios again to see if I can enable DOCP, same issue except this time it boots in safe mode saying there is system instability which I assume is because of the ram. So I disable DOCP and boot into windows again. Checked the software for the mobo and there is a chipset update among others so I update that and try and enable DOCP again which thankfully works this time.

However, the ram speed is still at 2133mhz. 

 

This is my first build so I'm still pretty new at this, I'm sure there is something I'm doing wrong but I just don't know at this point. One other odd thing to note is that the cpu fan header wasnt working when I tried to enable DOCP the first time around, the second time I used the old ram and booted into safe mode and it told me there was a CPU fan header error. I have it working now even with DOCP but it was just..odd since all the other fans where spinning. This happens with not getting any signal to monitor or keyboard. I checked the QVL list and I couldn't find anything for my specific ram. Right now DOCP is not enabled.

 

SPECS:

 MB- Asus Tuf Gaming b450 plus II. Checked for bios updates and it doesn't look like there are any, yet on the asus website it says there is a beta version available for an update do I download this?

OS- win 10 64bit

Ram-  G.skil trident z rgb 3600MHz 2x8gb (f4-3600c18d-16gtzrx)

CPU- r5 3600

GPU- Gigabyte vision 3070

PSU Evga 700br

SSD- Crucial bx500 1tb

 

Going to run memtest86 later when I get off work. will update then

 

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

Can you confirm that you have plugged the RAM into slots A2 & B2, according to the manual?

 

[Crimson99]

Yes they are plugged into A2 and B2, forgot to mention I put the ram into A1 and B1 just to see if it changed anything (it didnt, though I can still boot into windows.)

[DailyProcrastinator]

Welcome to the forum!

 

7 minutes ago, Crimson99 said:

So this problem started when I was installing the noctua u12s cooler onto my cpu. The stock cooler was a little stuck so with some twisting I was able to get it off, however, it kind of jerked off and slipped out of my hand onto the side of the motherboard. Checked the cpu just to make sure and nothing seemed out of place. Once installed I boot the pc up and the CPU debug led is on and I'm getting no signal to my monitor or keyboard. The debug led gives me no other info other than something is wrong with the cpu. I unscrewed the cooler thinking maybe it was too tight, still no dice. So I called a friend and he thinks it could be the motherboard, I get a new motherboard (Tuf gaming b450 plus II) now the computer boots up into windows just fine. While I'm in the bios I enable DOCP profile and save and exit.

 

Now here is where the problem starts, my PC also starts boot looping before shutting down and getting no signal to monitor and keyboard and I'm unable to boot into the bios, the issue before I got the new motherboard sans the boot loop. I have a spare set of ram that I used and was able to boot into the bios and then into windows. So now I enter the bios again to see if I can enable DOCP, same issue except this time it boots in safe mode saying there is system instability which I assume is because of the ram. So I disable DOCP and boot into windows again. Checked the software for the mobo and there is a chipset update among others so I update that and try and enable DOCP again which thankfully works this time.

However, the ram speed is still at 2133mhz. 

 

This is my first build so I'm still pretty new at this, I'm sure there is something I'm doing wrong but I just don't know at this point. One other odd thing to note is that the cpu fan header wasnt working when I tried to enable DOCP the first time around, the second time I used the old ram and booted into safe mode and it told me there was a CPU fan header error. I have it working now even with DOCP but it was just..odd since all the other fans where spinning. This happens with not getting any signal to monitor or keyboard. I checked the QVL list and I couldn't find anything for my specific ram. Right now DOCP is not enabled.

 

Honestly mileage can vary with a Mem OC, RAM not being QVL listed doesn't mean it can't OC though. And DOCP is basically just an auto OC mode for memory.

 

If you cannot enable DOCP you can attempt to manually adjust DRAM speed and voltage.

 

First make sure your memory is in the correct slots (check your manual). Then download and run MemTest86, make sure there are no issues with your memory kit, if you have the all clear do so as follows. 

 

Check for a Bios update, if there is an available update that pertains to memory stability etc then I would recommend doing so, if the update is not associated with memory then I would not bother at this time. 

Go into Bios and disable DOCP, then go to advanced settings, then AI tweaker. From there you are going to want to adjust your memory frequency, I generally recommend single incremental jumps, so beginning from 2666MHz you would go to 2700Mhz, then go down to DRAM Voltage and set it to 1.3500V, and lastly set SOC voltage to 1.100V. Save and exit Bios. If you get caught in a boot loop and the settings reset to default you know the memory OC was not stable. 

 

If stable enough to post into Windows then run a quick stress test, I recommend Cinebench R15 (runs faster than R20) and if stable restart and post boot into Bios. Also, keep in mind stable in a quick stress test is not the same as stable during a gaming session. Windows stop codes related to memory will let you know that your memory OC is not stable. 

 

If you hit instability along the way start upping the DRAM voltage by increments of 0.010V (so 1.360V, 1.370V, 1.380V... etc) until stable, I would not recommend exceeding 1.450V though. 

 

So once stable at 3066MHz you can push further, 3133MHz, 3200MHz, 3266MHz, 3333MHz, and so forth, each time testing stability, possibly adjusting voltage and this is how you OC your memory, eventually you will hit a wall. Hopefully you can achieve 3600Mhz.

 

Quick and dirty method: Clear CMOS, set all bios settings to default, boot into Windows, Run MemTest86, get the all clear, boot back into bios, set DRAM Voltage to 1.400V, SOC to 1.100V, mem frequency to 3200MHz, and give it a go, if stable push to 3600MHz. 

[Crimson99]

16 hours ago, DailyProcrastinator said:

 

Go into Bios and disable DOCP, then go to advanced settings, then AI tweaker. From there you are going to want to adjust your memory frequency, I generally recommend single incremental jumps, so beginning from 2666MHz you would go to 2700Mhz, then go down to DRAM Voltage and set it to 1.3500V, and lastly set SOC voltage to 1.100V. Save and exit Bios. If you get caught in a boot loop and the settings reset to default you know the memory OC was not stable. 

 

If stable enough to post into Windows then run a quick stress test, I recommend Cinebench R15 (runs faster than R20) and if stable restart and post boot into Bios. Also, keep in mind stable in a quick stress test is not the same as stable during a gaming session. Windows stop codes related to memory will let you know that your memory OC is not stable. 

 

If you hit instability along the way start upping the DRAM voltage by increments of 0.010V (so 1.360V, 1.370V, 1.380V... etc) until stable, I would not recommend exceeding 1.450V though. 

 

So once stable at 3066MHz you can push further, 3133MHz, 3200MHz, 3266MHz, 3333MHz, and so forth, each time testing stability, possibly adjusting voltage and this is how you OC your memory, eventually you will hit a wall. Hopefully you can achieve 3600Mhz.

 

Quick and dirty method: Clear CMOS, set all bios settings to default, boot into Windows, Run MemTest86, get the all clear, boot back into bios, set DRAM Voltage to 1.400V, SOC to 1.100V, mem frequency to 3200MHz, and give it a go, if stable push to 3600MHz. 

Okay, first thanks bunches for the info! So I ran memtest86, no errors. I started at 2666MHz changed the voltages booted into windows, ran cinebench 15 no errors at all so thats good news! 

Just to confirm I should only change the DRAM voltage if I run into a boot loop? Does the SOC voltage change if I get any loops at all?

[DailyProcrastinator]

7 minutes ago, Crimson99 said:

Okay, first thanks bunches for the info! So I ran memtest86, no errors. I started at 2666MHz changed the voltages booted into windows, ran cinebench 15 no errors at all so thats good news! 

Just to confirm I should only change the DRAM voltage if I run into a boot loop? Does the SOC voltage change if I get any loops at all?

No problem, at least you now know your memory is in working order!

 

Yeah you can up DRAM voltage, base is 1.350V, you are safe to go up until 1.450V, after that it gets beyond recommended spec for most memory kits.

 

Leaving SOC at 1.100V is best. You do not need to change it. 

[Crimson99]

14 hours ago, DailyProcrastinator said:

No problem, at least you now know your memory is in working order!

 

Yeah you can up DRAM voltage, base is 1.350V, you are safe to go up until 1.450V, after that it gets beyond recommended spec for most memory kits.

 

Leaving SOC at 1.100V is best. You do not need to change it. 

Okay, So I started getting boot loops at 3133Mhz @ 1.350v and was able to push it up to 3200 @ 1.365v. I tried 3266 and went all the way to 1.4v but no dice, I would lose signal to the monitor and my keyboard even though all the fans/lights where on. I'd have to change ram so it would boot loop and then post in safe mode so I could enter the bios and then change it back in the event I'd lose signal to the monitor with the installed ram. The ram that I have in right now is my own ram and not the spare. 

 

At this point the boot loops are a good sign since I know it would post in safe mode. The times where I'd lose signal to the monitor is where I cant even enter bios

[DailyProcrastinator]

18 hours ago, Crimson99 said:

Okay, So I started getting boot loops at 3133Mhz @ 1.350v and was able to push it up to 3200 @ 1.365v. I tried 3266 and went all the way to 1.4v but no dice, I would lose signal to the monitor and my keyboard even though all the fans/lights where on. I'd have to change ram so it would boot loop and then post in safe mode so I could enter the bios and then change it back in the event I'd lose signal to the monitor with the installed ram. The ram that I have in right now is my own ram and not the spare. 

 

At this point the boot loops are a good sign since I know it would post in safe mode. The times where I'd lose signal to the monitor is where I cant even enter bios

Yeah, you still have voltage headroom but sometimes a mem OC, despite its rated frequency, is not possible past a certain point. For sanities sake, if you keep your memory at 3200Mhz, I would set voltage to 1.3750V from 1.3650V.

 

Boot loops just indicate that it was not stable, but still 'stable' enough to self correct itself and post in safe-mode, where as before that was not happening because DOCP mode was setting your memory to a frequency and voltage that that system did not like at all. 

 

Sometimes the CPU's mem control is the issue, Zen2 CPUs were far better than the previous gens, but sometimes this comes down to the silicon lottery. 

[-rascal-]

19 hours ago, Crimson99 said:

Okay, So I started getting boot loops at 3133Mhz @ 1.350v and was able to push it up to 3200 @ 1.365v. I tried 3266 and went all the way to 1.4v but no dice, I would lose signal to the monitor and my keyboard even though all the fans/lights where on. I'd have to change ram so it would boot loop and then post in safe mode so I could enter the bios and then change it back in the event I'd lose signal to the monitor with the installed ram. The ram that I have in right now is my own ram and not the spare. 

 

At this point the boot loops are a good sign since I know it would post in safe mode. The times where I'd lose signal to the monitor is where I cant even enter bios

 

Another quick-and-easy thing you can test is enable DOCP so the primary memory timings + DRAM voltage is set to the XMP spec.

Then manually adjust the DRAM frequency so...say DDR4-3200 or DDR4-3400.

This is just to find out to what DRAM frequency the system is stable up to without drilling down, and fine tuning the DRAM timings, etc.

 

 

[Crimson99]

3 hours ago, DailyProcrastinator said:

Yeah, you still have voltage headroom but sometimes a mem OC, despite its rated frequency, is not possible past a certain point. For sanities sake, if you keep your memory at 3200Mhz, I would set voltage to 1.3750V from 1.3650V.

 

Boot loops just indicate that it was not stable, but still 'stable' enough to self correct itself and post in safe-mode, where as before that was not happening because DOCP mode was setting your memory to a frequency and voltage that that system did not like at all. 

 

Sometimes the CPU's mem control is the issue, Zen2 CPUs were far better than the previous gens, but sometimes this comes down to the silicon lottery. 

So essentially is that about as high as this ram will go? Which is odd because on my previous mobo (msi b450 pro-vdh max) alI I had to do was enable XMP and it would run at 3600MHz. Could there be some damage to the cpu when I initially tried to get the old cpu cooler off even though no pins where out of shape?

[Crimson99]

3 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

Another quick-and-easy thing you can test is enable DOCP so the primary memory timings + DRAM voltage is set to the XMP spec.

Then manually adjust the DRAM frequency so...say DDR4-3200 or DDR4-3400.

This is just to find out to what DRAM frequency the system is stable up to without drilling down, and fine tuning the DRAM timings, etc.

 

 

So that actually.. fixed it?...I tried 3200MHz first, booted fine then 3400MHz, booted fine and then 3466MHz was gtg. So I got ballsy and jumped up to 3600MHz and it boots perfectly fine! Weird because what you suggested was how I did it the first time around and it boot looped. The only thing I did different was reactivate windows before trying it which I didn't know I needed to do since the watermark was popping up sporadically. Could that have fixed it?

 

Cinebench showed no errors. Ill do some light gaming and test further. Thank you both @-rascal- & @DailyProcrastinator so much!

[-rascal-]

37 minutes ago, Crimson99 said:

So that actually.. fixed it?...I tried 3200MHz first, booted fine then 3400MHz, booted fine and then 3466MHz was gtg. So I got ballsy and jumped up to 3600MHz and it boots perfectly fine! Weird because what you suggested was how I did it the first time around and it boot looped. The only thing I did different was reactivate windows before trying it which I didn't know I needed to do since the watermark was popping up sporadically. Could that have fixed it?

 

Cinebench showed no errors. Ill do some light gaming and test further. Thank you both @-rascal- & @DailyProcrastinator so much!

 

Windows activation should not affect this.

DRAM XMP / frequency is at the BIOS firmware level, which is before it gets into Windows.

 

I'm thinking DDR4-3600 might not be 100% stable, or motherboard needs a couple of re-learn / re-tries to get DDR4-3600 stable.

As @DailyProcrastinator mentioned, XMP does NOT set all the DRAM timings for you, and for most of them, are just "suggested" settings.

The primary timings are set, but most of the secondary + tertiary timings are all up to the motherboard.

If you are not aware, the motherboard is capable of re-learning / re-teaching itself by trial-and-error to get XMP settings working.

Some motherboards even have a setting in the BIOS that allows you to set the number of re-tries before the board gives up, and just runs JEDEC DDR4-2133 default.

 

Cinebench might not be enough to confirm DDR4-3600 is actually 100% stable (e.g. it doesn't fill up all the RAM, or doesn't stress RAM enough).

For now, run it at DDR4-3600, but keep an eye out if it you encounter any system crashes or BSoD that could be DRAM related.

[Crimson99]

1 hour ago, -rascal- said:

 

Windows activation should not affect this.

DRAM XMP / frequency is at the BIOS firmware level, which is before it gets into Windows.

 

I'm thinking DDR4-3600 might not be 100% stable, or motherboard needs a couple of re-learn / re-tries to get DDR4-3600 stable.

As @DailyProcrastinator mentioned, XMP does NOT set all the DRAM timings for you, and for most of them, are just "suggested" settings.

The primary timings are set, but most of the secondary + tertiary timings are all up to the motherboard.

If you are not aware, the motherboard is capable of re-learning / re-teaching itself by trial-and-error to get XMP settings working.

Some motherboards even have a setting in the BIOS that allows you to set the number of re-tries before the board gives up, and just runs JEDEC DDR4-2133 default.

 

Cinebench might not be enough to confirm DDR4-3600 is actually 100% stable (e.g. it doesn't fill up all the RAM, or doesn't stress RAM enough).

For now, run it at DDR4-3600, but keep an eye out if it you encounter any system crashes or BSoD that could be DRAM related.

Gotcha. I did not now that motherboards have the capacity to re-learn but it does make sense. Is that why it was boop looping? It would loop 3ish times before posting to safe mode. I ran memtest86 yesterday and got no errors, does it stress the ram at different frequencies/voltages/timings? Would it tell me that the ram is unstable at a specific freq.?

 

Sorry for the questions, I just want to understand this more!