blackmagic Deciding on a Blackmagic switcher

[Mr Technician]

I'm looking to purchase a video switcher for producing services at my church. I've narrowed my search to a few models but am torn between a combined switcher/control panel or buying a separate control panel. Software control isn't an option.

The cheapest option that meets my needs is the ATEM Television Studio Pro HD, but the controls don't look as good as the dedicated panels.

Alternatively, I could purchase the ATEM 1 M/E Advanced Panel (with physical camera controls), which I could pair with either the ATEM Television Studio HD or ATEM Production Studio 4K.

The latter option is significantly more expensive than the former but also has significant advantages. I will need to use luma keys, basic transitions, and basic PiP. From what I can tell, all three switcher options will allow this.

• Is there a significant difference in capability (DVE, M/E, etc.) between the production studio 4k and television studio HD (be it the Pro model or otherwise)?
• Do I need to worry about input resolution and framerate matching for any of these models?
• Can both the SDI and HDMI program outputs on the Production Studio 4k be used simultaneously?

The other parts of the setup are as follows:

• Two HDMI cameras
• 1-3 Additional cameras (possibly PTZ) in the future
• Two HDMI inputs from ProPresenter for video content and song lyrics
• Four monitors, one each for multiview, ATEM software control, OBS stream preview, and general computer usage.
• A computer running OBS with an Intensity Pro 4k installed. I will purchase and SDI to HDMI adapter if my selected switcher does not offer Program out over HDMI
• A Streamdeck for controlling OBS functions

Any input or suggestions are much appreciated. I have reached the limits of what I can do with OBS directly as video production needs have increased and I want to move to a dedicated switcher as soon as possible.

 

Spec sheets below:

Spoiler

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemtelevisionstudio/techspecs/W-APS-08

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemtelevisionstudio/techspecs/W-APS-09

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atem/techspecs/W-APS-04

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atem/techspecs/W-ABP-03

 

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to Photography and Videography

[theonly500]

First of all you have to understand one limitation of the ATEM Production Studio 4K, the ATEM Television Studio HD and maybe the ATEM Television Studio Pro HD.
Those are either not capable (Production Studio) or seem to be not capable (Television Studio) to reformat you incoming signal. So you have to set every signal to the same Image Format. Framerate, Size and Scanning Type.

 

The ATEM Television Studio Pro 4K seems to be able to do the conversion internally though.So you could save your self a lot of headaches with that one. I've had it more than enough, that with out ATEM 2 M/E Production Studio 4k we had a bunch of different cameras and screens, and there was always the one, wich didn't want to use the proper Image Format.

 

And yes you can use all Outputs simultaneous.

 

The Production Studio 4k doesn't give you the Mediaplayback of the Television Studio Pro HD/4K.

 

All of these have only 1 Chroma Key if I interpret the Manual correctly, but multiple Luma Keys.
 

In the end the biggest advantage of the ATEM Panel + Production Studio is the option to change the Studio later on and keeping your control panel.

However, that is always 2 things to carry around. But you could entirely controll the Production Studio over the PC if the Panel were to fail. I know, that you've said, that Software Control isn't a Option, but it is there and quite useful, if you don't need to much and are in a crammed space.

 

Since the Production Studio 4K and the Television Studio (Pro)  HD which fit your needs the most, those would be the "easiest" Options.

However, if you need the input conversion capabilities of the Television Studio Pro 4k then you would need a bunch of Mediaconverters. And one of those is 150 USD.

I don't know which one i would take based on this amount of information. But since I'm a gear head, i would probably take the Panel + Production Studio Combo.

[LaFemmeEnVert]

22 hours ago, ThatFlashCat said:

 

budget? how many people operating the equipment?

 

22 hours ago, ThatFlashCat said:

• Two HDMI cameras
• 1-3 Additional cameras (possibly PTZ) in the future
• Two HDMI inputs from ProPresenter for video content and song lyrics

so 4 HDMI sources and possible 3 SDI (I assume PTZ cameras will use SDI connections if not sending the signal over ethernet).
So get the ATEM TV Studio Pro HD, has 4 SDI and 4 HDMI input

 

22 hours ago, ThatFlashCat said:

Four monitors, one each for multiview, ATEM software control, OBS stream preview, and general computer usage

why 4 monitors?

1. 1 monitor for the multiview from the switcher
2. 1 monitor for computer or maybe better a  laptop to provide software control/configuration for the switcher and prepare graphics or media playout
3. 1 monitor for streaming computer or better a laptop for streaming software
   • 2 & 3 can be done on the same computer if the computer can handle it, like a custom built mini-pc with a decent cpu and gpu and necessary capture card

If you've reached the limits of OBS, why not try using Wirecast?

 

 

1 of my clients this year is a church that pays me to operate their live streaming 2 times a week (I'm an atheist), and all I use is 1 camera, 1 web presenter and 1 laptop

 

 

or save yourslef a lot of hassle and use a couple of cameras and the ATEM Mini switchers (4 hdmi inputs), a decent laptop for control/streaming

it's not an easy thing for 1 person to operate the streaming, the switcher, the ptz cameras, the graphics, etc.  last month I spent 2 weeks with a crew of 8 in 1 room where we had 1 roaming camera, 3 ptz cameras, 2 vision mixers, 1 titler computer, 1 broadcast computer for a virtual conference

[LaFemmeEnVert]

which hdmi cameras and ptz cameras are you going to use?

[theonly500]

^This^

On the toppic of monitors: If you control the Atem with a panel you won't need the Software control on the surface. Multiview comes out on one.
Since you wan't to do all the mixing in the ATEM, you won't need OBS Stream preview. It would be good to have it ready in the background of one monitor. That can be your general Usage PC. If you are streaming, then you won't be able to just browse your PC, if you're not streaming, then you can just minimze OBS and use that Screen for anything else.
 

Do you have any PTZ Cameras yet?
The thing is that controlling those is a tricky thing, even with the normal controlls for the camera. And now add the complexity of running the Stream/Videomixing/Camoperating to the honestly speaking not very well placed Joystick.
Yes you have it, but it is in the only position it could be, but it blocks your right hand from making smooth transitions and focuses your attention onto that.

 

After all that, make damn sure, that the ATEM is the thing you need. With any PC based System you can make presets like nobodys business and quickly switch between them.
You can without the need to invest almost any money, you can get a second person to run all the Videocontent through NDI into your PC, that works fine for one stream into your PC while at the same time streaming to a webservice.

 

The ATEM is something wich can bite you very quickly, but can open doors to so much more. However it is way easier and more fun to just throw more people at something.

I really enjoyed the productions, where we were enough to be busy, but have enough fun to joke on the side, since we weren't overstressed. That can happen quickly, when you try to do too much by your self.
Been there. Was fun once. Wouldn't recommend. Would maybe do again.
 

[LaFemmeEnVert]

22 hours ago, ThatFlashCat said:

 

FYI, the church that is paying me to operate their live streaming, they asked me to buy them the equipment for it and they didn't want to spend a lot of money

So I went for a Sony semi-pro camcorder that has only HDMI out and was one of the few the suppliers had in stock during the pandemic lockdown when deliveries of new stock was very slow, but instead of going for the ATEM Mini switcher, I went for the Web Presenter because

• I don't know if they want to place the camera near the control table or far away (with the atem mini having HDMI inputs only, if the camera and the atem mini were placed far apart, and with the limitations of HDMI cable lengths, it would require 2 converters to bridge a long SDI cable in between. forget using wireless video transmission systems, they always have risk of signal interference)
• with the web presenter, I only need 1 HDMI to SDI converter if they want to position the camera away from where I will be sitting to control the live stream
• web presenter has XLR audio input, so I can get the audio from their audio mixer
• web presenter has a built in video encoder so it will take the load off the laptop they use for streaming using wirecast
• and if necessary, the web presenter can act as a 2 camera switcher (1 camera via SDI in, 1 via HDMI in)

much of the decision making for what devices to buy are determined by the setup (camera and audio systems that are used)

 

 

another note: a streamdeck device can be used as a control surface for wirecast which also has built in software video switching and layering of various inputs for mixing

[Mr Technician]

4 hours ago, theonly500 said:

First of all you have to understand one limitation of the ATEM Production Studio 4K, the ATEM Television Studio HD and maybe the ATEM Television Studio Pro HD.
Those are either not capable (Production Studio) or seem to be not capable (Television Studio) to reformat you incoming signal. So you have to set every signal to the same Image Format. Framerate, Size and Scanning Type.

 

The ATEM Television Studio Pro 4K seems to be able to do the conversion internally though.So you could save your self a lot of headaches with that one. I've had it more than enough, that with out ATEM 2 M/E Production Studio 4k we had a bunch of different cameras and screens, and there was always the one, wich didn't want to use the proper Image Format.

I'm probably going to go with the 1 M/E version of the Production Studio 4k since the base model doesn't have any DVE effects. I will be able to input the same resolution and framerate to each, so the reformat limitation is fine.

 

4 hours ago, theonly500 said:

And yes you can use all Outputs simultaneous.

You are referring to the SDI/HDMI program outputs, correct? Meaning I could run the outputs to separate devices or locations, for example.

 

4 hours ago, theonly500 said:

In the end the biggest advantage of the ATEM Panel + Production Studio is the option to change the Studio later on and keeping your control panel.

However, that is always 2 things to carry around. But you could entirely controll the Production Studio over the PC if the Panel were to fail. I know, that you've said, that Software Control isn't a Option, but it is there and quite useful, if you don't need to much and are in a crammed space.

 

Since the Production Studio 4K and the Television Studio (Pro)  HD which fit your needs the most, those would be the "easiest" Options.

However, if you need the input conversion capabilities of the Television Studio Pro 4k then you would need a bunch of Mediaconverters. And one of those is 150 USD.

I don't know which one i would take based on this amount of information. But since I'm a gear head, i would probably take the Panel + Production Studio Combo

The upgrade path of the separate panel is appealing to me. The panel also appears to have better controls compared to the Television Studio options (dedicated LCD labels for each button, etc.). Assuming you've used both the advanced panel and the TV studio controls, is there one you prefer?

 

3 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

why 4 monitors?

1. 1 monitor for the multiview from the switcher
2. 1 monitor for computer or maybe better a  laptop to provide software control/configuration for the switcher and prepare graphics or media playout
3. 1 monitor for streaming computer or better a laptop for streaming software
   • 2 & 3 can be done on the same computer if the computer can handle it, like a custom built mini-pc with a decent cpu and gpu and necessary capture card

I was anticipating that it would be nice to have software control available at the same time as hardware control but maybe that won't be the case. I will be using the same PC and it will have no trouble streaming and running control software at the same time.

3 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

or save yourslef a lot of hassle and use a couple of cameras and the ATEM Mini switchers (4 hdmi inputs), a decent laptop for control/streaming

it's not an easy thing for 1 person to operate the streaming, the switcher, the ptz cameras, the graphics, etc.  last month I spent 2 weeks with a crew of 8 in 1 room where we had 1 roaming camera, 3 ptz cameras, 2 vision mixers, 1 titler computer, 1 broadcast computer for a virtual conference

The streaming/switching shouldn't be an issue to run all at once. PTZ will be limited once it is implemented, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it. Graphics will mostly be coming from ProPresenter (generally not directly run on the switcher) so there will be no need for the stream operator to setup graphics on the fly.

3 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

If you've reached the limits of OBS, why not try using Wirecast?

I would consider it if I were only live streaming, but a hardware based switcher will be better suited for pushing the program to other parts of the church as well.

 

3 hours ago, theonly500 said:

Do you have any PTZ Cameras yet?
The thing is that controlling those is a tricky thing, even with the normal controlls for the camera. And now add the complexity of running the Stream/Videomixing/Camoperating to the honestly speaking not very well placed Joystick.
Yes you have it, but it is in the only position it could be, but it blocks your right hand from making smooth transitions and focuses your attention onto that.

Not yet. I'll worry about PTZ later but don't anticipate doing a lot of it. It would be more for occasional adjustments that doing PTZ live.

 

3 hours ago, theonly500 said:

The ATEM is something wich can bite you very quickly, but can open doors to so much more. However it is way easier and more fun to just throw more people at something.

Yeah, it's looking like it's the best solution at this point. I also see some switchers on Ebay for a lot less than MRSP in good condition...

 

[LaFemmeEnVert]

10 hours ago, ThatFlashCat said:

I'm probably going to go with the 1 M/E version of the Production Studio 4k since the base model doesn't have any DVE effects. I will be able to input the same resolution and framerate to each, so the reformat limitation is fine.

 

You are referring to the SDI/HDMI program outputs, correct? Meaning I could run the outputs to separate devices or locations, for example.

 

The upgrade path of the separate panel is appealing to me. The panel also appears to have better controls compared to the Television Studio options (dedicated LCD labels for each button, etc.). Assuming you've used both the advanced panel and the TV studio controls, is there one you prefer?

 

I was anticipating that it would be nice to have software control available at the same time as hardware control but maybe that won't be the case. I will be using the same PC and it will have no trouble streaming and running control software at the same time.

The streaming/switching shouldn't be an issue to run all at once. PTZ will be limited once it is implemented, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it. Graphics will mostly be coming from ProPresenter (generally not directly run on the switcher) so there will be no need for the stream operator to setup graphics on the fly.

I would consider it if I were only live streaming, but a hardware based switcher will be better suited for pushing the program to other parts of the church as well.

 

Not yet. I'll worry about PTZ later but don't anticipate doing a lot of it. It would be more for occasional adjustments that doing PTZ live.

 

Yeah, it's looking like it's the best solution at this point. I also see some switchers on Ebay for a lot less than MRSP in good condition...

 

you have 2 cameras that output by HDMI

you have 2 hdmi sources from propresenter

 

the 1 M/E 4K switcher only comes with 1 HDMI input, so how will you input the 2 HDMI cameras and 2 HDMI sources for propresenter?  are you going to use HDMI to SDI converters?  they may work for the cameras but converters don't always work with hdmi sources coming from computers, if the computer sources come with digtal content protection embedded.  not a problem if yhou are not feeding the propresenter as sources into the switcher, but could be a problem if you are.

 

why make things complicated?  get the ATEM TV Studio Pro HD which has 4 HDMi and 4 SDI inputs

you should follow the KISS rule, keep it simple.  a complicated setup means more possibility for things to go wrong.  if you are working alone you want to keep it as simple as possible.

[Mr Technician]

8 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

the 1 M/E 4K switcher only comes with 1 HDMI input, so how will you input the 2 HDMI cameras and 2 HDMI sources for propresenter?  are you going to use HDMI to SDI converters?  they may work for the cameras but converters don't always work with hdmi sources coming from computers, if the computer sources come with digtal content protection embedded.  not a problem if yhou are not feeding the propresenter as sources into the switcher, but could be a problem if you are.

I was looking at getting a few adapters if I opt for the 4k version. There won't be any HDCP content but the possible issues with HDMI to SDI conversion are concerning. I'm considering using a Decklink on the ProPresenter machine instead of HDMI outputs, which would solve the HDMI to SDI problem. Going that route would require only one adapter for one of the HDMI cameras with the intention of only purchasing SDI cameras in the future.

 

8 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

why make things complicated?  get the ATEM TV Studio Pro HD which has 4 HDMi and 4 SDI inputs

you should follow the KISS rule, keep it simple.  a complicated setup means more possibility for things to go wrong.  if you are working alone you want to keep it as simple as possible.

I will definitely go this route if 4k isn't necessary. I still have a few people to talk to regarding budgeting, whether we want to go 4k or not, and if I need one or two outputs from ProPresenter.

[LaFemmeEnVert]

52 minutes ago, ThatFlashCat said:

I was looking at getting a few adapters if I opt for the 4k version. There won't be any HDCP content but the possible issues with HDMI to SDI conversion are concerning. I'm considering using a Decklink on the ProPresenter machine instead of HDMI outputs, which would solve the HDMI to SDI problem. Going that route would require only one adapter for one of the HDMI cameras with the intention of only purchasing SDI cameras in the future.

 

I will definitely go this route if 4k isn't necessary. I still have a few people to talk to regarding budgeting, whether we want to go 4k or not, and if I need one or two outputs from ProPresenter.

HDMI to SDI conversion has almost no problem when source is a proper video source.  but if the HDMI source is a computer output there is a risk because computer graphic cards do not always output what can be considered a output that is a video standard.  thats where devices like decklink cards or ultrastudio panels offer the solution for getting a "video" signal out from a computer (as long as the software on the computer is capable of recognizing the decklink/ultrastudio other device of similar function).  unlike video standards which have a limited set of proper resolutions and frame rates, computer gpus can output videos of various resolutions (1920x1200, 2048x1536, 1600x1200, 1024x768 and more which even if the converter or receiver device can process that resolution it will add black bars around the image)

fortunately I see that ProPresenter claims to support decklink devices.

another item to consider with streaming is your internet bandwidth.  do you have the bandwidth for 4K streaming?  is the internet connection you have reliable?  are you using wifi or ethernet? what if for a reason the internet connection at the church is down, waht is your fallback plan for connection?  do you need to record the various video inputs of the live stream or the mixed output from the switcher?

 

if you need 4K, go for the ATEM TV Studio Pro 4K.  8 12G SDI inputs, with re-sync and standards conversion, audio mixing capabilities and other features you won't find in the 1 M/E 4K. but it lacks in some other areas compared to the M/E but those things shouldn't be essential for church live streaming.  they are more for actual broadcast use than livestreaming use.

[theonly500]

@LaFemmeEnVert

There is always the Production Studio without the 1 M/E That thing is more like a TV Studio in terms of inputs.
Oh and videoformats are a b**.. ehm beautiful thing. At least on Windows machines you can try to force the resolution through Windows display options. This works more often than not. I know of a few cases where it doesn't:
1. The PC is from a Company, where the IT department is locking down sys mangement. -> Always bring your own players.

2. The GPU isn't capable of providing a certain Format. -> Always check your system. (this is especially fun if the main screen of your 20k USD Mediaserver decides to not work and you have to guess your way around the various Displaymenus blindly.)

3. The PC doesn't allow you to change Framerates. -> Always check your system.

 

But on the other hand a more "complicated" System gives you some leeway in case somethiing breaks.
If the heart of your System breaks, then everything is toast. But if the PSU of a remote or a converter breaks, then it is not to big of an issue. More often than not you can squeze everything out of software control or one input less. That is if you have devices which are currently in use, but you could spare for a more important use.
 

But you could also have a "Systemoverload" of the System 1 ft infront of the System, If you know what i mean.

If you can afford it try to get each setup once and try to stream with it. Nothing is more important than time with the gear in your hands. Then you will notice the things wich suit yu and the ones which don't.
Nothing is more frustrating than spending 5k on new gear and then noticing, that it doesn't fit the thing you are trying to do with it.

Got really missfit Equipment, for a extremly ambitious project. Managed to pull at least something out of my magic box. Got shit upon by my boss, why i couldn't turn the world inside out and outside in again.

Would do the magic part again, the rest not so much.
And when you invest into equipment now you will carry that with you for a long time. So make sure, yoou feel comfortable around it. And make sure, that others can work with it to. I've had that often enough, that one guy just goes ill, and someone else has to pick up from there. If you go out and bodge together to most complicated System which fits this need perfectly, but you die in a car crash tomorrow, then no one has won anything.

[Mr Technician]

44 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

fortunately I see that ProPresenter claims to support decklink devices.

Hopefully that holds true.

 

44 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

another item to consider with streaming is your internet bandwidth.  do you have the bandwidth for 4K streaming?  is the internet connection you have reliable?  are you using wifi or ethernet? what if for a reason the internet connection at the church is down, waht is your fallback plan for connection?  do you need to record the various video inputs of the live stream or the mixed output from the switcher?

I plan to stream 1080p in any case, it's just a question of whether I push 4k out to screens in the narthex, conference rooms, etc. I expect that will be over NDI but that's not entirely my decision. OBS can take care of downscaling the stream to 1080p in that case.

47 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

if you need 4K, go for the ATEM TV Studio Pro 4K.  8 12G SDI inputs, with re-sync and standards conversion, audio mixing capabilities and other features you won't find in the 1 M/E 4K. but it lacks in some other areas compared to the M/E but those things shouldn't be essential for church live streaming.  they are more for actual broadcast use than livestreaming use.

In what areas are the TV Studio Pro 4k lacking compared to the 1 M/E version? Do you prefer the built in controls of the TV studio Pro 4k to the 1 M/E Advanced Panel or vice versa?

 

5 minutes ago, theonly500 said:

There is always the Production Studio without the 1 M/E That thing is more like a TV Studio in terms of inputs.

I originally considered the non me Production Studio but it lacks the ability to do DVE effects. That may be ok but it means I can't do an PiP or similar. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

7 minutes ago, theonly500 said:

And when you invest into equipment now you will carry that with you for a long time. So make sure, yoou feel comfortable around it. And make sure, that others can work with it to. I've had that often enough, that one guy just goes ill, and someone else has to pick up from there. If you go out and bodge together to most complicated System which fits this need perfectly, but you die in a car crash tomorrow, then no one has won anything.

Yeah, part of the goal here is to standardize the hardware behind the streaming. I want others to be able to take over if I am unable to keep going with it.

[theonly500]

Since I don't know any more about your System,

would it be possible to mix the Livefeed on a rather Simple Mixer and the Playbackvideo on a different one?
We've used a Barco PDS 901 or 902 for that. Although that one is quite expensive, but has the Option of Transcoding almost everything to almost everything.
And it would add a decent amount of complexety to your system, having to deal wiith multiple units.

But i could imagine a scenario, where you only switch the Cameras externally and the Playback internally. That would get rid of a lot of the Problems you are facing. Since the Framegrabbing from OBS is quite decent. (Except for OneNote) and you can use a streamdeck to control the whole PC through companion, and the external Mixer for the Cameras. Leaving you with a rather simple setup, where you can trigger Sceens and the according Videoplayback at the same time. That takes some time to set up though and might not work in your case, because you have too much variance. But if the program stays more or less the same, except for different Playback files then it is easy to create a rather simple instruction set to work with that.

[LaFemmeEnVert]

31 minutes ago, ThatFlashCat said:

In what areas are the TV Studio Pro 4k lacking compared to the 1 M/E version? Do you prefer the built in controls of the TV studio Pro 4k to the 1 M/E Advanced Panel or vice versa?

open up the tech specs page for both and put them side by side, the part I refer to is the section that deals with the number of upstream/downstream/luma keyers.  the M/E has more.

between the M/E devices and the ATEM switchers

• if I am setting up a broadcast studio for broadcasting/livestreaming something that requires a lot of complex graphics like a news station or sportscasting I will choose the M/E panels and accessories
• for live streaming a virtual conference or some event like a church the ATEM switchers would be my pick

 

if you need to route video signals to different screens and rooms, think about investing in a video matrix.  blackmagic makes videohubs 12x12, 20x20, 40x40.  they can be used together with video switchers to route to different destinations or even route from different sources.  a portable setup we have at our studio for multilanguage live streaming we have a 4 input switcher (we need to upgrade this later) and a 12x12 video hub working together to handle 10 camera sources (even though the current switcher we use only has 4 inputs) and route various video inputs and signals to multiple destinations.  if we need to route the same video signal to multiple destinations and we need more outputs than the 12x12 matrix, we have a 1-in 8-out SDI distribution box.

because the SDI signal we are streaming needs to have up to 8 audio tracks or languages embedded, we are using audio embedders that take 8 XLR outputs from our digital audio mixer and embed them into 1 SDI video signal, and we can expand the embedders to support up to 16 audio channels in 1 SDI signal.
 

and all of this fits into 3 portable rack cases, 1x 12RU box and 1x 3RU  and 1x 6RU boxes.
 

you can see some of the setups in this tread, old photos before the build was finalized and everything organized

 

this guy is using the TV HD non-pro ATEM switcher

 

40 minutes ago, theonly500 said:

And when you invest into equipment now you will carry that with you for a long time. So make sure, yoou feel comfortable around it. And make sure, that others can work with it to. I've had that often enough, that one guy just goes ill, and someone else has to pick up from there. If you go out and bodge together to most complicated System which fits this need perfectly, but you die in a car crash tomorrow, then no one has won anything.

it's a church live streaming, not a TV station that's broadcasting news or sports, so keeping everything simple is best.  if you create a complex setup you need to have it well documented so that if you're not available to operate it for some reason, someone else who isn;'t familiar with what you did can easily operate it.

 

[LaFemmeEnVert]

41 minutes ago, ThatFlashCat said:

non me Production Studio

don't waste your time on this model.  having a DVE, even if just 1 DVE is essential for any live streaming

ATEM TV Switchers are also suited very well for having a small portable setup if you need to move between locations and don't have a broadcast van.

M/E setups are better suited if you have a broadcast van or they sit in a fixed location where all the connections are permanent

 

if you need more than 1 DVE and blackmagic devices don't provide it, I recommend combining the use of a hardware video mixer (like the M/E panels or ATEM switchers) and software like Wirecast.  We do that sometimes.  We send the program out of our switcher and send it to a computer with wirecast where we do another layer of switching with pre-recorded video clips that need to be played out or adding more graphics or adding another layer of picture-in-picture.

OBS is nice that it's a freeware but compared to wirecast it's garbage

 

[Mr Technician]

I'll forgo quotes to save some space:

 

I'll make sure to skip the base Production Studio, then. This leaves me with the decision between the TV switchers and 1/ME Production Studio. Mobility isn't a factor as this will be installed at a desk and left alone.

 

1 DVE is plenty.

 

Looking at the spec sheets, all three TV studios would work as would the 1 M/E Production Studio. The only thing I'm stuck on is the control panel itself. Assuming I get one of the two higher end TV studios, the panel is built in. It sounds like you're saying that for a smaller production the benefits of the dedicated panel would be less valuable. One thing would lose using the TV studio controls VS the M/E panel is the LCD labels for the switcher keys.

 

A matrix would be great down the road. 

[LaFemmeEnVert]

1 hour ago, ThatFlashCat said:

It sounds like you're saying that for a smaller production the benefits of the dedicated panel would be less valuable.

Not at all, having a control surface is far more beneficial

 

1. blackmagic has 3 ATEM TV Studio Switchers
   1. HD that costs $1000 (only if you need to be ultra portable)
   2. Pro HD that costs $2300
   3. 4K that costs $3000
2. if you buy the ATEM Production Studio M/E system, you will also need to buy the Advanced Panel if you want a physical control surface instead of using a computer to control the ATEM M/E with the software.  So that's $2500 for the 1 M/E 4K and $3000 for the 1M/E Advanced Panel

I am recommending the (listed in bold) ATEM TV Studio Pro HD or the 4K because the cost of investment is less and they can do everything you need.

 

Because you currently have 2 HDMI based cameras and possible additional HDMI input sources, the Pro HD has 4 HDMI inputs and 4 SDI inputs mixed in.

 

BUT, for the HDMI based cameras, using a HDMI to SDI converter poses very little issue other than it will be 2 additional devices you need to add into your setup, the ATEM TV Studio 4K with all inputs being SDI poses no problem either.  The only thing you will have to do here is then for the computer sources (Propresenter or other sources that are computer based)

1. find a HDMI to SDI converter that will not have issues with digital protection embedded HDMI signals and always check the computer's GPU display out configuration to send out an appropriate resolution to avoid black bars (not a difficult task, just need to remember to always check what the resolution for screen mirroring or 2nd monitor out via HDMI is). 
2. OR: the software like Propresenter needs to support outputting an image using video cards like Decklinks or Ultrastudio devices with SDI ports.
3. OR: avoid sending out movies and other videos that have copyright protection to the HDMI to SDI converter.  Stuff like Powerpoint presentations don't pose a problem as they don't normally have digital protection when you project them to a TV or projector or send them out via HDMI to some other destination.

Another benefit of the ATEM TV Studio switchers (not the M/E units), at least for the SDI inputs.  All the SDI inputs on the ATEM TV Studio Switchers have their own individual SDI loop outs.  You can use this to connect multiple video recording devices (like the Hyperdeck recorders) to record an unmixed feed of each video source.  With this, you don't have to go to press "rec" on each camera if you want to have "clean" recordings of each camera input.  You can sit at your location and press the "rec" buttons on the recording devices sitting in front of you, even if the cameras are placed around the venue at different locations.

 

Also remember, the TV Studio Pro 4K has re-sync and standards conversion built in as they don't assume all the cameras you use are the same make and model.  With the M/E switchers, they assume that you will use the same kind of "professional" studio cameras as that's where they expect you to use the M/E hardware.

 

With the M/E, the SDI ins do not have their individual loop outs (you would need to buy the Constellation Unit for this), so you can't connect recording devices to the unit to record unmixed inputs.  You would need to press "rec" on each camera input individually. I don;t see any mention of the M/E units having the ability to do ISO record via one of the aux outputs.

 

The TV Studio switchers have fewer aux outputs than the Production Studio M/E units.  But there is a workaround if you need to distribute the image to multiple destinations.

 

If you need to distribute the program out to multiple destinations (assuming that all the destinations are supposed to see the same image as the image being sent to the live streaming service), you can get a SDI distribution box.  the SDI loop outs can also be used to distribute specific camera/video sources (obviously not the mixed program out)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1044818-REG/blackmagic_design_convmsdida4k_mini_converter_sdi.html

 

If you need more complex routing and distribution, you will need a video matrix whether you buy the TV Studio switcher or Production Studio M/E switchers.

 

OK the M/E advanced panel has small LCD screens for each button to create custom labels. But you could always print out labels and stick them on the TV Studio switcher panels too.

 

if you need a tally system for your setup, you don't have to buy the blackmagic system that works with the ATEM switchers unless you have blackmagic cameras.  This third party tally system can be used with ATEM switchers, even if you are using blackmagic cameras

https://flextally.cerevo.com/en/

 

1 final important thing: whether you buy the TV Studio switchers with panels or go for the M/E advanced panel setup, any camera control or color correction feature they come with, those only work for blackmagic cameras. They won't work for sony, canon, panasonic, jvc, or other cameras.  Same for the integrated talkback, as far as I'm aware the integrated talkback feature is also only for blackmagic cameras that have a talkback connection.

 

hope I covered everything

 

 

[Mr Technician]

Awesome, thanks so much. @LaFemmeEnVert

 

Unfortunately, this upgrade has been delayed for now due to budget constraints. In the meantime, I will keep considering my options and will probably have more thoughts/questions regarding your above post.

[LaFemmeEnVert]

15 hours ago, ThatFlashCat said:

Awesome, thanks so much. @LaFemmeEnVert

 

Unfortunately, this upgrade has been delayed for now due to budget constraints. In the meantime, I will keep considering my options and will probably have more thoughts/questions regarding your above post.

so explain to me what your current setup is and where you are looking to improve.  maybe we can find a solution that is an intermediate step

[Mr Technician]

For others who are watching this thread, I have dmed @LaFemmeEnVert, but feel free to chime in with additional feedback or thoughts.

[LaFemmeEnVert]

2 hours ago, ThatFlashCat said:

For others who are watching this thread, I have dmed @LaFemmeEnVert, but feel free to chime in with additional feedback or thoughts.

read it, I replied.  the most basic upgrade you can do is invest in the Atem Mini Pro