D.O.C.P. Fails to POST

[DrLanG]

I've been having issues with my system not wanting to boot when I enable D.O.C.P. settings in BIOS. I have made various voltage, frequency, and timing adjustments, including the ones included in the "for Dummies" thread. The RAM refuses to run any higher than 2133MHz.. I've read that Ryzen doesn't like 4 DIMM setups, maybe that is the issue? Maybe the system doesn't like the RAM? I'm certain it probably isn't top of the line, but it was there for a good price. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong? There's no sense in the extra memory, if I can't get it running at least CLOSER to its rated speeds. In the end, will it really matter? I was always under the impression that Ryzen loved high speed memory, so I figured I could benefit from the extra speed.

This is the setup I'm currently testing this on:

ASUS PRIME B450-Plus

Ryzen 2700x

Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4x8gb) 3200MHz (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16)

 

[Fasauceome]

8 minutes ago, DrLanG said:

I've read that Ryzen doesn't like 4 DIMM setups, maybe that is the issue?

4 dimms is much harder to run stable on cheaper motherboards. A more expensive motherboard would have thick traces or even a different memory trace layout which would allow for better signal integrity so you could run your memory fast more easily. Basically all X570 motherboards, for example, would be at least decent at 4 dimms setups.

 

8 minutes ago, DrLanG said:

I was always under the impression that Ryzen loved high speed memory, so I figured I could benefit from the extra speed.

Yes, ryzen benefits quite a lot from increased memory speed. The core to core communication is based partially on the memory, so lower latency and higher bandwidth is best.

 

Is DOCP offering different speeds? If 3200 isn't working, how does 3000 or 2933 fair? What if you manually increase the memory voltage a bit?

[Moonzy]

4 stick at 3200 is a bit of a tall order for zen+

 

try enabling DOCP but set freq to 2933? or maybe lower

[Tristerin]

Your board is likely okay for 3200mhz (I didnt look up specs) in 4 dimm slots, but that CPU memory controller is only rated at 2933mhz.  

 

Id set DOCP profile, then manually set frequency to 2933mhz - I bet it posts.  Just with loose timings.

[Tristerin]

1 minute ago, Moonzy said:

4 stick at 3200 is a bit of a tall order for zen+

 

try enabling DOCP but set freq to 2933? or maybe lower

To expand on this point @DrLanG I can push 3600mhz across 2 dimms on my R7 1700 with manual overclocking.  But as soon as I go to 4 dimms, stock settings only (2666mhz, due to CPU memory controller and likely the board as well, I think the board only guarantees 2933mhz across 4 dimms iirc)

[boggy77]

on a 2700, and 4 ram sticks, i'd try with:

frequency: 2667

dram voltage:1.35

SOC voltage: 1.1

[DrLanG]

3 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

4 dimms is much harder to run stable on cheaper motherboards. A more expensive motherboard would have thick traces or even a different memory trace layout which would allow for better signal integrity so you could run your memory fast more easily. Basically all X570 motherboards, for example, would be at least decent at 4 dimms setups.

So I've heard.. I guess I should've put a little more thought into things like that when the system was first built, but I was really just going for decent bang for the buck at the time. That's what was there.

5 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

Is DOCP offering different speeds? If 3200 isn't working, how does 3000 or 2933 fair? What if you manually increase the memory voltage a bit?

DOCP offers me the 3200MHz profile, but allows me to adjust the frequency.. Therefore, no timing or voltage changes.. I've tried both 3000 and 2933 using the timings and voltage provided with the 3200 profile, but no luck. I tried increasing by .05v, from 1.35v to 1.4v. Also no luck there.

[DrLanG]

9 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

4 stick at 3200 is a bit of a tall order for zen+

 

try enabling DOCP but set freq to 2933? or maybe lower

Sure, but it's always worth a shot! I enabled the DOCP profile and bumped the frequency to 2933, still no POST.

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, DrLanG said:

Sure, but it's always worth a shot! I enabled the DOCP profile and bumped the frequency to 2933, still no POST.

try 2666

[DrLanG]

11 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Your board is likely okay for 3200mhz (I didnt look up specs) in 4 dimm slots, but that CPU memory controller is only rated at 2933mhz.  

 

Id set DOCP profile, then manually set frequency to 2933mhz - I bet it posts.  Just with loose timings.

 

9 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

To expand on this point @DrLanG I can push 3600mhz across 2 dimms on my R7 1700 with manual overclocking.  But as soon as I go to 4 dimms, stock settings only (2666mhz, due to CPU memory controller and likely the board as well, I think the board only guarantees 2933mhz across 4 dimms iirc)

I read something about that and gave it a shot. I tried 2933 with the voltages and timings that are included in the 3200 DOCP profile, nothing.

[DrLanG]

9 minutes ago, boggy77 said:

on a 2700, and 4 ram sticks, i'd try with:

frequency: 2667

dram voltage:1.35

SOC voltage: 1.1

I'll give it a shot.

[DrLanG]

I'm curious if maybe 4 sticks just wasn't the move. Seems to be too finnicky with my current setup.

[Tristerin]

52 minutes ago, DrLanG said:

I'm curious if maybe 4 sticks just wasn't the move. Seems to be too finnicky with my current setup.

Eh, Id personally disagree - Ive messed around a metric F ton with Ryzen first gen, rated at much lower, with (check my sig 3600 and 3200mhz stable) success on 2 CPU's way over spec (both 1700's).  Just need to find that sweet spot, as the solution above technically should work, or Id look for a refund on parts as you are not able to hit spec.

 

Pull CMOS, let it clear for a minute, put it back in and try DOCP settings, manually turned back down to 2933mhz frequency (leave all other settings alone) If this doesnt work put it on Manual and set the frequency to 2933mhz, and voltage for ram at 1.35v (DOCP setting, but this time we arent asking for specific timings, we will let the system pick) - one of these will work, or something with your setup is wrong (imho) - tightening up timings afterwards is a diff story.

 

The best way to check your hypothesis (and you could be right, but that means the board or CPU isnt working right to spec) is to remove 2 sticks (remove the stick closest to CPU, and the third one from that.  You should have sticks in the second and fourth from CPU in the mobo) and work on that.

 

Let me know if any traction gained if you are willing to try these things out

[DrLanG]

17 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Eh, Id personally disagree - Ive messed around a metric F ton with Ryzen first gen, rated at much lower, with (check my sig 3600 and 3200mhz stable) success on 2 CPU's way over spec (both 1700's).  Just need to find that sweet spot, as the solution above technically should work, or Id look for a refund on parts as you are not able to hit spec.

 

Pull CMOS, let it clear for a minute, put it back in and try DOCP settings, manually turned back down to 2933mhz frequency (leave all other settings alone) If this doesnt work put it on Manual and set the frequency to 2933mhz, and voltage for ram at 1.35v (DOCP setting, but this time we arent asking for specific timings, we will let the system pick) - one of these will work, or something with your setup is wrong (imho) - tightening up timings afterwards is a diff story.

 

The best way to check your hypothesis (and you could be right, but that means the board or CPU isnt working right to spec) is to remove 2 sticks (remove the stick closest to CPU, and the third one from that.  You should have sticks in the second and fourth from CPU in the mobo) and work on that.

 

Let me know if any traction gained if you are willing to try these things out

I'll try it out.

[Tristerin]

2 hours ago, DrLanG said:

I'll try it out.

If that doesnt do it, we will want to look at your stock SOC voltages and VERY LIGHTLY increment those up.  I believe up to 1.2v is MAX you want it, but I cant remember havent researched this in a while.  Basically iirc you may have to hit up to 1.15v on the SOC to get it stable.  Its been over a year since I learned all of this and havent messed with it on a physical hardware level since.

[DrLanG]

On 11/30/2020 at 2:25 PM, Tristerin said:

If that doesnt do it, we will want to look at your stock SOC voltages and VERY LIGHTLY increment those up.  I believe up to 1.2v is MAX you want it, but I cant remember havent researched this in a while.  Basically iirc you may have to hit up to 1.15v on the SOC to get it stable.  Its been over a year since I learned all of this and havent messed with it on a physical hardware level since.

Okay. I've been busy, but I've finally gotten around to trying the suggested solutions. Without using any of the DOCP settings, I was able to achieve 2866 at 1.35v and SOC at 1.1v. Hitting 2933 is a different story. I tried increasing the SOC up to 1.2v, nothing. Maybe a RAM voltage increase? I mean, 1.35v was the voltage in the 3200 profile, so I'm not sure if that would change anything.

[Nena Trinity]

You crazy? These can barely handle 2 sticks at DOCP, lower MHz and try again... 

[Tristerin]

6 minutes ago, DrLanG said:

Okay. I've been busy, but I've finally gotten around to trying the suggested solutions. Without using any of the DOCP settings, I was able to achieve 2866 at 1.35v and SOC at 1.1v. Hitting 2933 is a different story. I tried increasing the SOC up to 1.2v, nothing. Maybe a RAM voltage increase? I mean, 1.35v was the voltage in the 3200 profile, so I'm not sure if that would change anything.

Careful with SOC voltages, research maxes there I dont go over 1.15-1.17 iirc when overclocking ram.  You can also go up to 1.4, 1.45 on the voltage for the RAM.

[Tristerin]

1 minute ago, Nena Trinity said:

You crazy? These can barely handle 2 sticks at DOCP, lower MHz and try again... 

Huh?  No he should continue to dial them in and see what he can get.  Its free performance.  His system is unstable because the CPU wont DOCP because the CPU memory controller is only rated for 2933mhz.  Board is safe, memory is safe.  Not sure why this response.

[Nena Trinity]

2 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Huh?  No he should continue to dial them in and see what he can get.  Its free performance.  His system is unstable because the CPU wont DOCP because the CPU memory controller is only rated for 2933mhz.  Board is safe, memory is safe.  Not sure why this response.

With four sticks he is lucky if he barely get 2933MHz or maybe 3066MHz... 

[Tristerin]

5 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

With four sticks he is lucky if he barely get 2933MHz or maybe 3066MHz... 

If he gets 2933mhz thats free performance.  Yes getting 4 sticks is more difficult then getting 2 sticks dialed in on Zen/Zen+.  I know this from Zen release that its near impossible on that series of processors (I cant get past 2666mhz on 4 dimms no matter the mobo, CPU, or ram kits I have and try)

 

Sure he can stop, sure he can try to dial down, but as long as he is within the safe operating limits, has the time and desire - there is no reason not to try to get this stable.  Worse case...he learns a bit about overclocking.  Best case - he dials it in for free performance.

[Nena Trinity]

Just now, Tristerin said:

If he gets 2933mhz thats free performance.  Yes getting 4 sticks is more difficult then getting 2 sticks dialed in on Zen/Zen+.  I know this from Zen release that its near impossible on that series of processors (I cant get past 2666mhz on 4 dimms no matter the mobo, CPU, or ram kits I have and try)

 

Sure he can stop, sure he can try to dial down, but as long as he is within the safe operating limits, has the time and desire - there is no reason not to try to get this stable.  Worse case...he learns a bit about overclocking.  Best case - he dials it in for free performance.

Maybe increase timings to get more MHz is a option, tough on Zen+ that wont gain performance since there is no infinity fabric... 

[Tristerin]

2 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

Maybe increase timings to get more MHz is a option, tough on Zen+ that wont gain performance since there is no infinity fabric... 

Wut?

 

Edit - you should google what you just said.

[Nena Trinity]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

Wut?

 

Edit - you should google what you just said.

No I am quite sure sunce there is no CCX in Zen+, 1st and 2nd gen also likes low cas latency... The best OP can do is to try and see if he gain anything from trading CAS for MHz but I doubt it... 

[Tristerin]

24 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

No I am quite sure sunce there is no CCX in Zen+, 1st and 2nd gen also likes low cas latency... The best OP can do is to try and see if he gain anything from trading CAS for MHz but I doubt it... 

First thing that comes up on google:

 

The Infinity Fabric: A Blessing And A Curse - AMD Ryzen 5 1600X CPU Review | Tom's Hardware

AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Review - A Little More Architectural Detail (guru3d.com)

 

I personally have alot of time, and kits of tested DDR4 invested into Zen platform, and the only thing that doesnt care about frequency and CL is CinebenchR20   The things that do care are games, and they prefer frequency over CL if you were to pick a trade off.  Though I have no experience with Zen+ products the same results likely occur in gaming which is a slightly higher average frame rate, but exceptionally tighter frames and a huge boost to lows.