5950x with 4400mhz 32gb or 3600mhz 64gb for workstation?

[funkfreeze]

Budget (including currency): £300

Country: UK

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Affinity, Fusion 360, Blender, Reality Capture, DaVinci Resolve... I'd love to get into VR for product visualisation too.

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc):

 

So, I build a workstation when my existing system prevents me from progressing with my work. For my Intel 5960x, GTX 980, 16gb 2166 ram (I think), now is the time to upgrade as I can't render anything I'm now designing without hours passing. It's so hard to complete certain tasks now. I am an end to end brand designer which means designing products and producing the marketing visuals for those products, concept to market.

 

My aim is to build another workstation that will last another 4-6yrs with maybe one GPU upgrade midway.

 

I was lucky enough to grab an AMD 5950x at launch to pair with a x570 MSI MEG Unify (photo attached, not for cringe bragging, but just to show my request for info is genuine and not a fantasy build to waste anybody's time). I know exactly what I'll be putting in the system except the GPU and RAM.

 

GPU will likely be Nvidia, but I'm waiting a few weeks for the availability to improve and also see if a 3080 with 20gb is going to come out. Like I said, I'm trying to build with a little more future proofing in the system. Spending a little more on a 20gb variant now might save a year or two on the next GPU upgrade therefore being better value. 3090 is not in budget.

 

The RAM is the the main thing that's confusing me though, especially since the new Ryzen CPUs seem particularly performance sensitive to it...

 

In the opinion of people on here, for RAM on 5950x with my intended workloads and use scenarios, would you go for 4400mhz c19 at 32gb, or 3600mhz c18 at 64gb? 

 

Both can be had within the system RAM budget. I'm guessing 4400mhz will unlock the 5950x more in my applications, but is that worth the trade-off for 32gb instead of 64gb? Which trade-off will I notice? Will I notice either?

 

I don't know a whole lot about RAM. I'm competent enough to build a system and enable XMP, but I'm in no way an expert. I would also say that because this is a workstation that needs to be as reliable as a rising sun and bullet proof stable, I am not keen on overclocking components beyond auto 'one click' options or very mild manual tweaks. System will be air-cooled.

 

Thanks in advance for any opinions.

 

[porina]

If you really need 64GB for some workloads, go for that. Adequate ram at lower speed would generally beat inadequate ram at faster speed.

 

I'd also be cautious about getting ram like 4400. I'm not up to speed on testing others have been doing but do not expect running such high speed ram to be straight forward and without other potential performance impacts.

[boggy77]

4400 is too much for ryzen. 3800 would be the maximum i'd recommend if you just want to enable xmp and no further tweaking. As for capacity, not sure what your system will need. Start with 2x16 and if you notice ram gets all used up, get another identical kit.

[boggy77]

Go with 3600 c16 though

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/9y848d/crucial-ballistix-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-bl2k16g36c16u4w

[ABBDVD]

8 minutes ago, boggy77 said:

Go with 3600 c16 though

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/9y848d/crucial-ballistix-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-bl2k16g36c16u4w

That's the same RAM as I intend to pick for my build, so agree. Do note that MSI motherboards apparently have problems with RAM over 3200MHz according to this post (and ppl on reddit, linked in the post).

There also appears to be quite a bit of a performance uplift by using 4 sticks instead of 2 and having the memory clock (mclock), memory controller clock (uclock) and infinity fabric clock (fclock) at a 1:1:1 ratio. The problem is that the CPU's fclock is limited to ~1800MHz-2000MHz and thus you can't make use of higher frequency than 3600-4000 MHz if you want to keep the ratio.

See this video from Steve from Gamers Nexus or also the following article regarding Zen 2 memory settings where there's some written info on the topic (with the difference that there'smore performance loss if configured incorrectly in Zen 3) https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3508-ryzen-3000-memory-benchmark-best-ram-fclk-uclock-mclock

 

[funkfreeze]

Thanks for the replies. Interesting stuff. Great to get the recommendation on the CL16 Crucial RAM.

 

I think I'm now leaning towards the 3600mhz at 64gb after the advice. I'm also emailing AMD and MSI for their input on recommend speeds.

 

I'll report back if they give decent answers.

 

By the way, is there any reason I wouldn't be able to put my old 5yr old 2166mhz RAM into the new system for a couple of weeks as a stop gap to wait for more info on these higher speed kits? Any compatibility issues with slower frequencies like that on x570? Would be nice to string out the decision to black Friday and maybe get a good deal. Yeah, it's a high-end system, but its a business purchase so I'm haggling and couponing every part possible.

 

Again, thanks for the advice.

[funkfreeze]

1 hour ago, ABBBDVD said:

That's the same RAM as I intend to pick for my build, so agree. Do note that MSI motherboards apparently have problems with RAM over 3200MHz according to this post (and ppl on reddit, linked in the post).

There also appears to be quite a bit of a performance uplift by using 4 sticks instead of 2 and having the memory clock (mclock), memory controller clock (uclock) and infinity fabric clock (fclock) at a 1:1:1 ratio. The problem is that the CPU's fclock is limited to ~1800MHz-2000MHz and thus you can't make use of higher frequency than 3600-4000 MHz if you want to keep the ratio.

See this video from Steve from Gamers Nexus or also the following article regarding Zen 2 memory settings where there's some written info on the topic (with the difference that there'smore performance loss if configured incorrectly in Zen 3) https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3508-ryzen-3000-memory-benchmark-best-ram-fclk-uclock-mclock

 

Just checked the MSI page for the x570 MEG Unify and it lists the motherboard's RAM compatibility at:

 

• DDR4 MEMORY

1866/ 2133/ 2400/ 2667/ 2800/2933 /3000 /3066 /3200 /3466 /3600 /3733 /3866 /4000 /4133 /4266 /4400 /4533 /4600 /4733 /4800 /5000+ Mhz by JEDEC and A-XMP OC MODE

 

I know I opted for the Unify over the Tomahawk because I red plenty about stability issues on the Tomahawk generally. The Unify was seemingly always reviewed as being very stable and thermally solid. 

 

I suppose that RAM list also answers my question about my old RAM working fine in the new system for a couple of weeks. It's certainly going to be running a GTX 980 for a while until 3000 series supply eases anyway!

[ABBDVD]

37 minutes ago, funkfreeze said:

Just checked the MSI page for the x570 MEG Unify and it lists the motherboard's RAM compatibility at:

 

• DDR4 MEMORY

1866/ 2133/ 2400/ 2667/ 2800/2933 /3000 /3066 /3200 /3466 /3600 /3733 /3866 /4000 /4133 /4266 /4400 /4533 /4600 /4733 /4800 /5000+ Mhz by JEDEC and A-XMP OC MODE

 

I know I opted for the Unify over the Tomahawk because I red plenty about stability issues on the Tomahawk generally. The Unify was seemingly always reviewed as being very stable and thermally solid. 

 

I suppose that RAM list also answers my question about my old RAM working fine in the new system for a couple of weeks. It's certainly going to be running a GTX 980 for a while until 3000 series supply eases anyway!

The post I linked explicitly says that somebody's having the problem with his MSI x570 Unify. But I hope you don't and I would assume that they will fix it soon if it is a software problem. It's not that the Tomahawk or the Unify don't officially support the RAM at higher frequencies, but obviously your mileage may vary.

[funkfreeze]

28 minutes ago, ABBBDVD said:

The post I linked explicitly says that somebody's having the problem with his MSI x570 Unify. But I hope you don't and I would assume that they will fix it soon if it is a software problem. It's not that the Tomahawk or the Unify don't officially support the RAM at higher frequencies, but obviously your mileage may vary.

Aaaah, yep, sorry. I didn't twig how to open the thread when you first sent it.

 

I suppose this means I'll just hold off XMP until the bios gets sorted.

[funkfreeze]

OK, so the update I promised.....

 

I asked AMD what optimum RAM frequency was best for the 5950x and they replied telling me: "Please contact your motherboard manufacturer for supported frequencies that will work with your motherboard". So they completely messed up the meaning of the question. When I replied saying that I was asking what was optimum for the CPU that they make, not the motherboard, they simply didn't reply.

 

In the end I went with 64gb at 3600mhz (4x16gb). I unfortunately went with C18 and not the C16 Crucial RAM simply because after trying for two weeks to get an answer on availability, Crucial couldn't give me a timeframe except it'll be a while. If I was using this system for gaming, then fair enough, I would have waited, but I need to use it for work. I'm guessing the performance difference on a 5950x / 3080 system between C16 and C18 is going to be in the realms of 1-2%. It was definitely worth doing with the effort of a little research and at the same cost, but not worth delaying my work because Crucial can't supply it for a few more weeks. The delay to work would make it expensive essentially.

 

The good news is that on the MSI MEG x570 Unify I was one of the lucky ones and XMP worked just fine up to 3600mhz after updating to the most recent BIOS. Don't know if I'm just lucky, or if the BIOS has solved the frequency issue for all users?

 

I also managed the get a 3080 ordered yesterday, which actually got delivered this morning (eBuyer UK through a business account order, for any UK registered businesses you are able to get access to stock). Literally ordered at 4:50pm an delivered the following day at 9:25am...........the only issue, no bloody cables in the box! I know enthusiasts tend to mod, but seriously, it's weak to not have the cables in the box to hook the product up.

 

I now have to source two 8 pin PCIe cables that go all the way to the PSU. Can anyone recommend any good 8 pin cables for the Aorus Master 3080 that are full cables and not just extensions?

[Nosrelo]

1 hour ago, funkfreeze said:

..........the only issue, no bloody cables in the box! I know enthusiasts tend to mod, but seriously, it's weak to not have the cables in the box to hook the product up.

 

I now have to source two 8 pin PCIe cables that go all the way to the PSU. Can anyone recommend any good 8 pin cables for the Aorus Master 3080 that are full cables and not just extensions?

Hey there!

I don't know of any graphics card that comes with power cables. Those usually come with the PSU. If your PSU is capable of running something like a 3080 its box should have included at least two 8-pin cables. What PSU are you running?

[funkfreeze]

11 minutes ago, Nosrelo said:

Hey there!

I don't know of any graphics card that comes with power cables. Those usually come with the PSU. If your PSU is capable of running something like a 3080 its box should have included at least two 8-pin cables. What PSU are you running?

You've got a point, to be fair. 

 

I'm using a Corsair H850i from six years ago. The only cables I have spare in that bag, apart from a ton of sata, are the PCIe cables that got from an 8 pin to x2 6+2 daisy chained ends......if that makes sense? I doubt that cable would give the right power delivery for the 3080. I believe it needs x2 straight 8 pin to 8 pin PCIe cables, right?

 

Frustratingly the manual for the card has literally one line for installation with basically says 'plug it in'. Yep, fair enough, but what are the cable requirements? Maybe I'm being a total idiot, but production design is all about catering to the most base level of understanding, and total I am that base level of understanding.

[Nosrelo]

Okay there have been some weird problems with the newer cards and older PSUs because the cards' power drain can spike like crazy. But technically, your PSU should work fine. I would suggest trying it and if you get random shutdowns/reboots or any GPU related isues I would try a newer PSU.

Edit: There are specifications to be met by any 8-pin cables and I trust Corsair to meet them. So I wouldn't worry about it being daisy chanied or not. 

[funkfreeze]

56 minutes ago, Nosrelo said:

Okay there have been some weird problems with the newer cards and older PSUs because the cards' power drain can spike like crazy. But technically, your PSU should work fine. I would suggest trying it and if you get random shutdowns/reboots or any GPU related isues I would try a newer PSU.

Edit: There are specifications to be met by any 8-pin cables and I trust Corsair to meet them. So I wouldn't worry about it being daisy chanied or not. 

Ok, there's been a development..... please see attached pics. 

 

I've rummaged around and found some 8 pin to 6+2 pcie cables and they seem to fit. The only issue is that the 2 pin connector is wired into a single socket on the 8 pin end. This is the same on both of the cables I've got. Hopefully I capture that in the photos.

 

Are these normal? Are they ok to use? I think they are an old CableMod kit from 2014.

[Nosrelo]

The two additional pins are both on ground (and that's how it's supposed to be) so that's not a problem.

Unless you force plugs into sockets where they don't belong (and therefore don't fit properly) like for example using an 8-pin EPS connector (the one for your CPU) for your graphics card, you can't really go wrong. If it fits it should work. Worst case is your PSU can't handle it and shuts down under load.

[funkfreeze]

6 minutes ago, Nosrelo said:

The two additional pins are both on ground (and that's how it's supposed to be) so that's not a problem.

Unless you force plugs into sockets where they don't belong (and therefore don't fit properly) like for example using an 8-pin EPS connector (the one for your CPU) for your graphics card, you can't really go wrong. If it fits it should work. Worst case is your PSU can't handle it and shuts down under load.

Excellent. I'll try them after I've gotten through work today. The cables fit fine into the GPU. I presume there'll be zero issue with the PSU either.

 

I believe I got these cables in the first place because Corsair's own cables that came with their PSU were an absolute nightmare to plug in anywhere. You always felt that the board was about to break.

 

Anyway, regarding the suitability of the cables, I've just read on the Gigabyte site that the GPU has a little white LED behind the power socket what will light up to warn if the power to the unit is sub-optimal. Nice feature. Not sure if that's standard these days or not. Again, this didn't appear in the card manual. All this extra info was just sales copy.

[funkfreeze]

Aaaaand it worked! System now complete with no power warning LEDs on the GPU. I can finally crack on with work.

 

I've got to say, I'm really pleased how this turned out, although I need to work out how to just get a static white on the LEDs.

 

Building a system like this was certainly easier 6 years ago. Can't say it's been too fun hunting all the components this time. Covid impact though, I get it.

 

Anyway, thanks to everyone who contributed on this thread. You've all been a big help.