upgrade system Upgrading my system and would like to know your opinion.

[Petirdo]

Hello everyone,
I hope that you and your families are staying safe and healthy.

So, I want to "upgrade" my old PC to be able to sustain or carry out some processes I happen to suffer from my current build. I am currently an engineering undergraduate, so I need a lot of computational power when it comes to AI, machine learning, 3D modeling and simulation, photo rendering, and some video editing. Also, I would like to play some games in my free time. I am not a hardcore gamer, but I try some new demanding games from time to time and play some online games as well.

 

I am currently living in Egypt, and my budget in local currency is around 17,000 EGP which corresponds to almost $1100. 

My current build:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wFPLrr

So I had this build as you can see since generation 3 in intel came out so it is pretty old. I had no VGA card at first, and then I updated my build with a GTX 1060 MSI Gaming X like 2 years ago with the extra 2TB hard drive.

So, I have always been dealing with intel as my processor. However, when I got into engineering I figured that it would be way more efficient to have Ryzen as my processor for its higher multi-threading qualities. So, I would like to know which is better regarding what I need and if the new intel technologies got better in terms of multi-threading.

My new build:
First one with AMD Processor: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LpBYcT
The second one with Intel Processor: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9xHLrr
The only differences are just the motherboard and the processor.

I would also want to know how big of loss when I get RAM memory of CAS Latency 16 compared to CAS latency 14 because in my country I only have the Trident Z and Ripjaws in CAS Latency 16 and Flare X in CAS Latency 14. The Trident Z has a cool RGB look which I would like to have, but the RGB wouldn't really matter that much if it will affect the performance by a considerate/visible amount. Also, is getting a RAM memory with 3600 MHz at CAS Latency of 16 or 18 better than RAM memory with 3200 MHz at CAS Latency of 14?

 

I learnt that my PSU will present problems on modern PC build due to being old and group regulated. How much impact will my old PSU have and what are suggestions for getting a new one?

 

Regarding the motherboard, would it be worth the money to get the TOMAHAWK version for the better VRMs?

Finally, is there a considerable benefit from getting the Ryzen 3800XT instead of Ryzen 3800X? And, should I wait for the release of Ryzen 5800X which should be out in the coming week? I know that the X570 supports the Zen 3 of Ryzen, but I am worried about the cost of the processor since the benchmarks show that it will beat the intel core i9 10900K and also the time it would be available in my country because I would like to get the new upgrade before November by max.

I am open to any suggestions/improvements you may have as well without increasing the budget considerably.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Thank you so much for your patience and time for reading.

[mbntr]

The 10700k similar in performance to a 3800x, in single and multicore.

Now you could wait for the 5800x or even for the 11700k, but the 5000 series won't be immediately available, and the 11th gen from intel is coming in Q1 2021.

On ryzen the sweet spot is 3200 - 3600 cl 14.

also, be careful when trusting leaks, the leaked benchmarks show similar performance to the 10900k in gaming (ashes of the singularity, a very much dead game), but multi core performance, doesn't matter in that specific workload, in fact, a 10600k beats the 10900k if slightly overclocked with less cores

[SupaKomputa]

Wihtout changing anything, you can use the new Ryzen 5800x.

Rumors said it beats Intel by 10%. Which is huge success for amd.

It will be announced tomorrow.

 

Also Windows key for $138? ouch. You can upgrade your 1060 to 2060 with that money.

Go for an OEM key for $10.

[Chiyawa]

I see. Okay, I'll try to answer as best as I can:

1 hour ago, Petirdo said:

So, I would like to know which is better regarding what I need and if the new intel technologies got better in terms of multi-threading.

Well, for Intel, Intel still beat AMD in terms of single-core performance, whereas AMD beat Intel with multi-threaded performance. Depending on the software you use, you might benefit from using either of the CPU, or no benefit at all from one or the other. You may want to check how well your software performs using AMD or Intel CPU. Code optimisation also plays a very great role. CPU does have many instruction sets such as SSE3 or SSSE3, so if the software take can take advantages of the instruction that the other processor doesn't have, they will perform better than those processor that doesn't have the instruction.

 

1 hour ago, Petirdo said:

Also, is getting a RAM memory with 3600 MHz at CAS Latency of 16 or 18 better than RAM memory with 3200 MHz at CAS Latency of 14?

RAM speed just gives you a rough idea how fast it can carry data to and from CPU when ideal condition are met. 3600MHz can transfer 28.8GBps of data while 3200MHz can only transfer 25.6GBps of data. Of course, CL means the delay your CPU has to wait before the data can be retrieve from RAM after it has send the memory location to get the data to the RAM.

 

In summary: 3200MHz CL14 has a delay of 8.75ns, 3600MHz CL 16 has 8.88ns. Don't get 3600MHz CL18 as it has a delay of 10ns.

 

1 hour ago, Petirdo said:

I learnt that my PSU will present problems on modern PC build due to being old and group regulated. How much impact will my old PSU have and what are suggestions for getting a new one?

As for PSU, nothing much has changes. If your PSU has enough juice to power your modern system, you should be fine. PC Part Picker has estimated power draw for both system would be around 365W to 385W. As long as your old PSU 12V rail can provide 400W (34 Amps), it can power your system. Check your PSU label and see how much 12V power it can provide.

 

You might wonder why I specifically mention 12V. This is because modern PSU standard listed 12V power rating rather than the old standard which listed total Power rating. A modern 750W PSU (in this example, we will be using Gigabyte G750H) has its 12V able to provide up to 62A (744W), 5V able to provide up to 22A (120W), and the rest (-12V provides 6W and 5V standby provide 12.5W), the total of that PSU is actually 882.5W by old PSU standard.

 

1 hour ago, Petirdo said:

Regarding the motherboard, would it be worth the money to get the TOMAHAWK version for the better VRMs?

Well, it'll definitely help. The power rail would be able to handle larger power draw from CPU.

 

1 hour ago, Petirdo said:

Finally, is there a considerable benefit from getting the Ryzen 3800XT instead of Ryzen 3800X? And, should I wait for the release of Ryzen 5800X which should be out in the coming week?

Well, 3800XT is a refreshed from 3800X. The only noticeable feature it has from 3800X is that it can handle slightly faster speed RAM of close to 4200MHz before the performance became diminishing whereas 3800X can handle up to 3800MHz RAM. Another is the power draw, 3800XT has slightly better power management than 3800X. It is not much of the difference, actually.

 

You can wait for 5800X, but if you are using X570 chipset, you might need to update the mobo BIOS before you can use the new CPU.

[Fatih19]

I'd just wait for the 5800X.

[Chiyawa]

8 minutes ago, Chiyawa said:

You might wonder why I specifically mention 12V. This is because modern PSU standard listed 12V power rating rather than the old standard which listed total Power rating. A modern 750W PSU (in this example, we will be using Gigabyte G750H) has its 12V able to provide up to 62A (744W), 5V able to provide up to 22A (120W), and the rest (-12V provides 6W and 5V standby provide 12.5W), the total of that PSU is actually 882.5W by old PSU standard.

An error on my understanding. The PSU max combine power output is still 750W. Sorry about the misconceptions.

 

In old PSU standard, they will usually combine all power output from different voltages and listed it at their power output. I have an old PSU rated at 400W, with 12V can provide up to 285W, 5V can provide 80W, the rest are split to 3.3V, -12V, 5Vsb, making the total output of the PSU 400W.

[Lord Vile]

$450 for a 1060 is STEEP. Look at the used market for a GPU you'll geta  better deal.

 

Get the 3700X instead of the 2800X

 

Get a windows key online not a retail copy

[Lord Vile]

1 hour ago, mbntr said:

The 10700k similar in performance to a 3800x, in single and multicore.

Now you could wait for the 5800x or even for the 11700k, but the 5000 series won't be immediately available, and the 11th gen from intel is coming in Q1 2021.

On ryzen the sweet spot is 3200 - 3600 cl 14.

also, be careful when trusting leaks, the leaked benchmarks show similar performance to the 10900k in gaming (ashes of the singularity, a very much dead game), but multi core performance, doesn't matter in that specific workload, in fact, a 10600k beats the 10900k if slightly overclocked with less cores

You you could get a 3700X for less and spend more on the GPU

[Petirdo]

10 hours ago, mbntr said:

The 10700k similar in performance to a 3800x, in single and multicore.

Now you could wait for the 5800x or even for the 11700k, but the 5000 series won't be immediately available, and the 11th gen from intel is coming in Q1 2021.

On ryzen the sweet spot is 3200 - 3600 cl 14.

also, be careful when trusting leaks, the leaked benchmarks show similar performance to the 10900k in gaming (ashes of the singularity, a very much dead game), but multi core performance, doesn't matter in that specific workload, in fact, a 10600k beats the 10900k if slightly overclocked with less cores

Hello, 

Well I saw some benchmarks online between them and Ryzen had better performance regarding this issue. 
Also, Ryzen will allow me to upgrade later with Nvidia 30 series because they support PCI-E 4 while intel motherboards do and processor do not.

I saw the AMD live reveal today, and through several games the new 5000 series proved to be better. I could wait like a month I think to see if it would be available or if I am able to import it from amazon.

 

 

Thanks you for your reply 

[Petirdo]

10 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

Wihtout changing anything, you can use the new Ryzen 5800x.

Rumors said it beats Intel by 10%. Which is huge success for amd.

It will be announced tomorrow.

 

Also Windows key for $138? ouch. You can upgrade your 1060 to 2060 with that money.

Go for an OEM key for $10.

Hello, 

 

I saw the announcement today yeah, they showed great performance indeed. 
I am just worried about the time it will be available, because I am starting my final year soon and I would really need to upgrade my Rig as soon as possible for my needs. 

 

Finally, I just left the windows part when making the new build xx. Just ignore it.

 

Thank you for your time. 

[Petirdo]

Hello, 

First of all, thank you a lot for your detailed response. It is really appreciated mate. 

10 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

Well, for Intel, Intel still beat AMD in terms of single-core performance, whereas AMD beat Intel with multi-threaded performance. Depending on the software you use, you might benefit from using either of the CPU, or no benefit at all from one or the other. You may want to check how well your software performs using AMD or Intel CPU. Code optimisation also plays a very great role. CPU does have many instruction sets such as SSE3 or SSSE3, so if the software take can take advantages of the instruction that the other processor doesn't have, they will perform better than those processor that doesn't have the instruction.

I didn't search that deep when I looked into it. I searched around now, some applications require single threading more and some require multi-threading. I am using Solidworks (Modeling, and Image and Video Rendering), ROS-Gazebo Simulation and real time control, Python for Neural Networks and Machine Learning, and Image Processing. Maybe some video editing with Adobe After effects. So, I guess I would be looking for a compromise between all of those. 

 

10 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

RAM speed just gives you a rough idea how fast it can carry data to and from CPU when ideal condition are met. 3600MHz can transfer 28.8GBps of data while 3200MHz can only transfer 25.6GBps of data. Of course, CL means the delay your CPU has to wait before the data can be retrieve from RAM after it has send the memory location to get the data to the RAM.

 

In summary: 3200MHz CL14 has a delay of 8.75ns, 3600MHz CL 16 has 8.88ns. Don't get 3600MHz CL18 as it has a delay of 10ns.

That cleared a lot of confusion! Thanks 

 

10 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

As for PSU, nothing much has changes. If your PSU has enough juice to power your modern system, you should be fine. PC Part Picker has estimated power draw for both system would be around 365W to 385W. As long as your old PSU 12V rail can provide 400W (34 Amps), it can power your system. Check your PSU label and see how much 12V power it can provide.

I mean my PSU has enough juice to power up, but I read around that having a regulated PSU is harmful to my components nowadays. Here is the link where I got this information from: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/recommended-psu-to-buy.3603290/#post-21736677

11 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

Well, 3800XT is a refreshed from 3800X. The only noticeable feature it has from 3800X is that it can handle slightly faster speed RAM of close to 4200MHz before the performance became diminishing whereas 3800X can handle up to 3800MHz RAM. Another is the power draw, 3800XT has slightly better power management than 3800X. It is not much of the difference, actually.

 

You can wait for 5800X, but if you are using X570 chipset, you might need to update the mobo BIOS before you can use the new CPU.

Yeah I had the same idea between the 3800X and the 3800XT. For the 5800X, I know it would require a new BIOS update yeah. I am just worried about the time it would be available in my country. 

 

Thanks again.

[Petirdo]

10 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

$450 for a 1060 is STEEP. Look at the used market for a GPU you'll geta  better deal.

 

Get the 3700X instead of the 2800X

 

Get a windows key online not a retail copy

Hello, 

I already have the GPU. I got it two years ago. I just added it in the list. Also, the pricing in my local country differs from Amazon.

Same for the windows just ignore it.

 

I think you meant the 3800X. I am going for the 3800X, because is like a difference of $20 in my local store which is not that big for me.

[igormp]

As far a ML goes, the CPU won't matter at all. Going for AMD would be nice due to the future upgradeability path. PCIe 4.0 won't be really relevant for your applications either.

 

I'd go for the cheapest one tbh.

[Bearpaddocks]

According to a video on LTT (Not sure which one), for 3D stuff, Get LOTS of RAM.

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to New Builds and Planning