Can PSU damage the UPS?

[MD Utsho]

Please take your time and read the whole post.
This may sound like a weird question, Also i've never heard something like this before. 
But this month isn't going too good for me.I've been facing very weird problems.
First of have i bought a 1200va powerguard UPS 1year ago. It was working fine but in the end of last month it was causing my pc to restarts. when ups makes a clicking sound pc restarts, Also if i turn the main power off pc works fine on the battery, but if i turn the main power on pc restart immediately. this happens 4-5times out of 10 times.
So i sent to to the warranty, and unfortunately they changed the battery and that didn't fixed the problem. so i sent it again and told them clearly what was the problem and told them to change the circuit board.
And the UPS isn't back yet.
Meanwhile i was using my old 650VA ups, this one is 2-3Years old,for 2y i used it with my old system, and for 1y only for the router. 
And it's been 10days i'm using that for my current system, and today this ups is also facing the same problem like the other one  
I noticed that whenever i turn the AC on voltage spikes and this ups used to make a clicking noise, but now it doesn't, Just when it makes that clicking noise without voltage spikes pc restart.

And another problem is when i work is a scene in Blender with 4px volume tiles size and export 8K maps with so many heavy layers in Substance painter pc restart. I tried stress testing the gpu cpu with furmark heaven benchmarks, but that doesn't cause pc to restart, only those 2 is causing pc to restart. In blender 4px is lower and 2px is higher but 2px doesn't cause any restart but 4px does.
i troubleshooted every single parts (GPU,MOBO,CPU,PSU,NEW WINDOWS,LINUX,RAM,SSD) Still pc restarted, Also no one understood what is going on. 
I sent the same fine to another one who tested that with his rx580 and didn't face any restart. ( i can't tell if this is a recent problem or not )

So now my question is where all of those problem is pointing? By any chance can my PSU can do that?(damage my UPS and that weird restart problem when doing those 2 things?) or vise-versa? 
Also i'm not 100% sure if psu testing was a success, 
I don't have much idea about these, So help me out here
PC spec
i5 6400
Sapphire rx 590 8gb oc edition
Thermaltake smart se 630W
Gigabyte h110m series ddr3 mobo
16GB of ram
Pny 240gb SSD 
1 7200rpm 500gb HDD

[TempestCatto]

Have you tried plugging everything into a different circuit? Perhaps the power on the current circuit is dirty.

You could also try a PSU tester: https://www.amazon.com/HDE-Power-Supply-Tester-PCI/dp/B005UZHB6G

[Constantin]

The PSU is only receiving power from the UPS, so i do not think this is the problem.

It looks like a defective UPS 

[Vishera]

Just now, Constantin said:

The PSU is only receiving power from the UPS, so i do not think this is the problem.

It looks like a defective UPS 

If it happened to 2 in a row then it could be that the power is dirty,dirty power can cause a lot of issues and damage electronics,use a surge protector if you have one.

[MD Utsho]

5 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

Have you tried plugging everything into a different circuit? Perhaps the power on the current circuit is dirty.

You could also try a PSU tester: https://www.amazon.com/HDE-Power-Supply-Tester-PCI/dp/B005UZHB6G

No i haven't tried plugging everything into a difference circuit, But i'll try that.
But for that blender and substance painter's restart problem i went to a local shop to test those parts, but it was also restarting over there. 
And do i really need to test the psu with a digital meter? shouldn't bios or other software show us the right voltage? 
 

[MD Utsho]

1 minute ago, Vishera said:

If it happened to 2 in a row then it could be that the power is dirty,dirty power can cause a lot of issues and damage electronics,use a surge protector if you have one.

When pc restarted suddenly today after ups made that clicking sound with the 650va one, i turned the main power off than on to test it, and yeah pc restarted instantly. but after couple of time i did that again (turn main power off and on) and pc didn't restart, like i said it happens 5 out of 10 times. 
So the output power is dirty? also which damaged my ups? 

[MD Utsho]

10 minutes ago, Constantin said:

The PSU is only receiving power from the UPS, so i do not think this is the problem.

It looks like a defective UPS 

So why both UPS is becoming faulty in same month? Some electrical issue is going on? 
I tested more than 10times, i know ups used to make clicking sound when i turn on AC, but now it doesn't so i'm sure that now it's damaged. 

[Constantin]

Just now, Chokez said:

So why both UPS is becoming faulty in same month? Some electrical issue is going on? 
I tested more than 10times, i know ups used to make clicking sound when i turn on AC, but now it doesn't so i'm sure that now it's damaged. 

there must be some kind of short circuit somewhere, must be checked by a technician 

[GoldenLag]

Sounds like a scenario where the UPS has a brief moment of no power. (More than 20ms)

 

I dont see a solution for this outside of a PSU with excessive holdup-time.

 

In the end i think a different UPS is probably a better choice, one that doesnt cut power briefly.

[TempestCatto]

11 minutes ago, Chokez said:

No i haven't tried plugging everything into a difference circuit, But i'll try that.
But for that blender and substance painter's restart problem i went to a local shop to test those parts, but it was also restarting over there. 
And do i really need to test the psu with a digital meter? shouldn't bios or other software show us the right voltage? 
 

The PSU tester will give much more accurate results. Software cannot properly measure voltages from the PSU.

[MD Utsho]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

Sounds like a scenario where the UPS has a brief moment of no power. (More than 20ms)

 

I dont see a solution for this outside of a PSU with excessive holdup-time.

 

In the end i think a different UPS is probably a better choice, one that doesnt cut power briefly.

Maybe but the issue here is ups is becoming faulty, 
Like i said whenever i turn the AC on voltage spikes, and ups used to make clicking sound, but now it doesn't so i'm sure that now it's damaged. 

[MD Utsho]

3 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

The PSU tester will give much more accurate results. Software cannot properly measure voltages from the PSU.

Oh yeah you're right i'll try to test the psu, also someone told me before to test the psu with digital meter, but i didn't care about testing it cause i used another working psu for testing (Corsair vs 650) but no luck. 
So i ruled out the PSU. But it's very weird cause i heard faulty psu cause random restart or maybe when under load, but in my case it's fully different. (stress test, gaming doesn't cause any restart) Only a blender scene with 4px tiles size and exporting 8K maps with HSL prespective, color correction and color balance turned on causing pc to restart. 

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, Chokez said:

Maybe but the issue here is ups is becoming faulty, 
Like i said whenever i turn the AC on voltage spikes, and ups used to make clicking sound, but now it doesn't so i'm sure that now it's damaged. 

Then return it.

 

Could also be the PSU. Just checking some reviews, its not a very good unit at all when it comes to load regulation. 

[MD Utsho]

12 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Then return it.

 

Could also be the PSU. Just checking some reviews, its not a very good unit at all when it comes to load regulation. 

Yeah i was also thinking about changing it/selling it. since it's not a very good unit. 
it also has 2years of warranty. 
But first need to see what can i do to save ups from damaging.

[GoldenLag]

40 minutes ago, Chokez said:

Yeah i was also thinking about changing it/selling it. since it's not a very good unit. 
it also has 2years of warranty. 
But first need to see what can i do to save ups from damaging.

Well its failed in some way. So consumerprotections should allow you to return it.

 

And if the PC shuts down under heavy load, it could be from the drop in voltage from the 12v rail tripping a protection somewhere. 

 

 

What kind of shutdown is it?

 

Is it the whole system with a blackscreen?

[MD Utsho]

36 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Well its failed in some way. So consumerprotections should allow you to return it.

 

And if the PC shuts down under heavy load, it could be from the drop in voltage from the 12v rail tripping a protection somewhere. 

 

 

What kind of shutdown is it?

 

Is it the whole system with a blackscreen?

I mean for the UPS problem the whole system just shut down and again turn it back on. Maybe Ups is delaying in DC to AC 
And also about that blender and substance painter problem, here is the video. Pc doesn't restart if i stress test it or even play games for a long time. Here you can see if i change the tiles size to 4px pc restarted immediately. Same thing happens if i export 8k textures from substance painter with some filter layers turned on.

Note : If you cant see the video then go to this link 
https://blenderartists.org/uploads/default/original/4X/2/c/7/2c70f3532b180e6a2f8f48b2c5e056b181a6f38a.mp4 12

[GoldenLag]

18 minutes ago, Chokez said:

I mean for the UPS problem the whole system just shut down and again turn it back on. Maybe Ups is delaying in DC to AC

looking at it, it shouldnt be the poor PSU causing it to fail. as i see no reason why that would be the culprit. sadly i dont have any input regarding UPS`s as ive never had to deal with them. 

[MD Utsho]

14 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

looking at it, it shouldnt be the poor PSU causing it to fail. as i see no reason why that would be the culprit. sadly i dont have any input regarding UPS`s as ive never had to deal with them. 

I understand, Thank you 
I'll see what i can do. 
Some people are saying that maybe it is gpu vram issue. even if gpu vram is the problem then shouldn't pc restart when i'm stress testing it or even playing games? 

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, Chokez said:

Some people are saying that maybe it is gpu vram issue. even if gpu vram is the problem then shouldn't pc restart when i'm stress testing it or even playing games? 

it shouldnt take everything with it. it would cause it to crash. 

 

you can monitor the Vram with software to see if it ever gets up to 8GB. 

[MD Utsho]

9 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

it shouldnt take everything with it. it would cause it to crash. 

 

you can monitor the Vram with software to see if it ever gets up to 8GB. 

Yes it gets up to 8gb of vram but only in substance painter while i'm exporting. 
but not in blender. It hardly use 1gb or vram in that scene, but still pc restarts. 

Edit : one thing i forgot to mention is that when i turn those filter off in substance painter and then export 8k textures pc doesn't restart.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Chokez

[MD Utsho]

2 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Do this. Get OCCT which is a free benchmarking software https://www.ocbase.com

 

Set the Test Configuration to "Power", instruction set AVX2 and resolution to whatever is your native res and run the test in fullscreen.

one hour should be enough to test, if it turns off before that then your PSU is bad (a 12V rail overload causes the restarts or complete shutdowns with that kind of units)

Thank you i'm gonna test it then, but doesn't OCCT use Furmark for benchmarking? i heard that thing is a complete gpu killer.
And those restart happens instantly and everytime when i try to export 8k maps from substance painter with filter turned on.
So do you still think that it's 12V rail who's causing this? 

[MD Utsho]

16 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Yes OCCT uses Furmark but it's only intensive on the graphics card when you select the GPU-only test.

If you see CPU temps are too high simply disable the AVX, the ideal would be to keep it on though so you can fully test it.

 

I'm not an engineer but I've seen power supplies fail like that and it's always because of an odd power balance (or unbalance) with a 12V rail with too much load on it while the others (5, 3.3) have little, it makes some parts go out of spec and it restarts itself to protect the board and attached components, newer units don't have this problem since their board design is different (group regulated vs dedicated)

 

Check out Jonny Guru for more info on how a PSU works.

Okay,i'm gonna start testing it right now, and i'll keep you updated 

[MD Utsho]

17 hours ago, Caroline said:

Yes OCCT uses Furmark but it's only intensive on the graphics card when you select the GPU-only test.

If you see CPU temps are too high simply disable the AVX, the ideal would be to keep it on though so you can fully test it.

 

I'm not an engineer but I've seen power supplies fail like that and it's always because of an odd power balance (or unbalance) with a 12V rail with too much load on it while the others (5, 3.3) have little, it makes some parts go out of spec and it restarts itself to protect the board and attached components, newer units don't have this problem since their board design is different (group regulated vs dedicated)

 

Check out Jonny Guru for more info on how a PSU works.

Hi @Caroline here is the result i ran it for almost an hour, Didn't faced any restart, even the temps are fine (manual fan curve)
i touched the PSU it was quite warm but not that hot. 
i also ran memtest for quite sometime.
So what now? if the psu was faulty shouldn't it cause the pc to restart? if it's not then why those two things causes pc to restart? 

[tech.guru]

modern power supplies have an active pfc. you need to have a UPS that supports active pfc to avoid damaging the power supply. your power supply has an active pfc.

see, https://www.thermaltake.com/smart-se-630w.html

 

your ups is not active pfc compatible (with a simulated sign wave) and can damage active pfc power supplies and experience unexpected shutdowns.  this is what is happening.

 

look at,

https://www.newegg.ca/promotions/apc/18-2102/index.html

https://promotions.newegg.ca/nepro/16-7253/index.html?cm_sp=Cat_Power-Protection-_-nepro%2F16-7253-_-https%3A%2F%2Fpromotions.newegg.ca%2Fnepro%2F16-7253%2F1920x360.jpg&icid=374232

 

for some that will work with your power supply.

[MD Utsho]

11 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

modern power supplies have an active pfc. you need to have a UPS that supports active pfc to avoid damaging the power supply.

 

your ups is not active pfc compatible (with a simulated sign wave) and can damage active pfc power supplies and experience unexpected shutdowns.  this is what is happening.

 

look at,

https://www.newegg.ca/promotions/apc/18-2102/index.html

https://promotions.newegg.ca/nepro/16-7253/index.html?cm_sp=Cat_Power-Protection-_-nepro%2F16-7253-_-https%3A%2F%2Fpromotions.newegg.ca%2Fnepro%2F16-7253%2F1920x360.jpg&icid=374232

 

for some that will work with your power supply.

Are you sure that thermaltake smart modular 630W active pfc? 

I don't know it was fine before, if my PC is restarting because of this, shouldn't it restart every time when UPS gets the main power back? 

Like I said it's happening 5 times out of 10 times approximately.

And these two UPS were fine before. I mean I never faced this kind of restart.

Even if it's happening because UPS isn't active pfc compatible so what should i do? Get a new UPS or is there any other way.