A bit confused on r7 3800x auto vs asus OC

[Jesse221]

Ok so I have a new system with amd 3800x, asus strix x570-e and 32gb g skill 3600 everything stable and running fine.  So I have tested 3 ways for the cpu just to see what my results are and I’ve tried full auto, pbo on, and using asus ai 5 way optimization.  I’m a bit confused by my results, the best benchmark was after asus optimization but what confuses me is it seems to run at a fix clock and voltage, in my case it’s 43.50 clock and 1.35v and it changes it to offset mode.  In auto or pbo on it seems to run identical and clock speeds and voltages fluctuate as I would expect like my i7 4790k did (OC up to 4.6ghz and adaptive voltage) and in auto mode my ryzen 3800x hits up to 4.5 and voltage hits up to 1.47ish.

 

so I’m confused by the ai tuner running a lower voltage yet seems to stay fixed and also confused with a lower clock speed (which makes sense with the lower max voltage) yet gets a better benchmark that the stock hitting higher clock speeds.

 

what am I missing with AMD ryzen vs how intel works?  Is it better to stay at a constant lower voltage vs a fluctuating 1.1-1.47?  I’d think the adaptive would be better but maybe not?

[CPUguy101]

I'd disable the OC, keep PBO on and set your AUTO OC to 200mhz, next is to manually tune your memory use Ryzen dram calc for help

 

 

1.35V will slowly kill the CPU max voltage for zen 2 is 1.325V for all core heavy loads and 1.47V for single threaded loads or light loads

[Jesse221]

Ok so is maybe the asus ai OC doing and all core 1.35 and that’s why the higher score?  What does an auto OC 200mhz mean does that mean max would then be 4.7 or does that mean min would be 4.1?  It’s odd because the only noticeable thing I see in bios after the ai OC is the multiplier changed from auto to 43.50.  When I OCed my i7 4790k I changed multiplier to 46 vs auto.  So I’m assuming intel auto is max boost (4.4 in the case of i7 4790k) and then I’d have to guess AMD uses stock clock (3.9 for 3800x) but then how does it get max boost value?

 

lastly where do people get the correct “safe” voltage values for chips?  I’ve found the specs for the 3800x and found the max temp I should be sticking to (95c) but looking over the specs I don’t see a voltage spec that should be held to and in pics of ryzen master I see 1.475 as a common screenshot.  Also maybe I should note asus has 2 TPU settings 1 air cooled and 2 water cooled and I used 2 since I’m on a full water cooled loop, so maybe that why the higher allowed multi core voltage but I’d rather stay safer as even stock is extremely fast (every game is smooth as glass) I just saw the consistently lower voltage (and I believe cpu temp was lower too) and thought well if it running cooler and faster at same time maybe asus is right?  Still trying to adapt to this new cpu.

[CPUguy101]

17 hours ago, Jesse221 said:

Ok so is maybe the asus ai OC doing and all core 1.35 and that’s why the higher score?  What does an auto OC 200mhz mean does that mean max would then be 4.7 or does that mean min would be 4.1?  It’s odd because the only noticeable thing I see in bios after the ai OC is the multiplier changed from auto to 43.50.  When I OCed my i7 4790k I changed multiplier to 46 vs auto.  So I’m assuming intel auto is max boost (4.4 in the case of i7 4790k) and then I’d have to guess AMD uses stock clock (3.9 for 3800x) but then how does it get max boost value?

 

lastly where do people get the correct “safe” voltage values for chips?  I’ve found the specs for the 3800x and found the max temp I should be sticking to (95c) but looking over the specs I don’t see a voltage spec that should be held to and in pics of ryzen master I see 1.475 as a common screenshot.  Also maybe I should note asus has 2 TPU settings 1 air cooled and 2 water cooled and I used 2 since I’m on a full water cooled loop, so maybe that why the higher allowed multi core voltage but I’d rather stay safer as even stock is extremely fast (every game is smooth as glass) I just saw the consistently lower voltage (and I believe cpu temp was lower too) and thought well if it running cooler and faster at same time maybe asus is right?  Still trying to adapt to this new cpu.

Sorry for the late reply but the 200mhz boost almost always means 50mhz-100mhz at best i pretty much rarely come to linustechtips and follow overclock.net forms and i read so many threads where auto OC does nothing even except maybe on the 3600. 

 

We get the safe voltage table from something called the FIT table which is what TSMC basically says is safe to use for voltage sadly this is only given to certian people and isn't available to the public but luckily some have came forward to give us the info. 

 

 

To get the most out of my 3700X i have it set as followed

All voltages except Vcore is set to manual and with the recommended settings for ryzen calculator for my memory

PBO on max settings scalar set to X10(raises voltage table slightly). 

AUTO OC at 50mhz as 200mhz never see's frequency go above 4400mhz which is odd 

 

During games i have 4.25-4.325ghz and under load during a X265 encode i have 4075-4100mhz 

 

Please note that with AGESA 1.0.0.4 PBO is somewhat broken with EDC which is limiting my all core frequency a bit as i used to get 4150 on the same test. 

 

Keep voltage low as 10C can be as much as -75mhz during turbo. All core OC is a terrible way to overclock Zen+ and Zen 2 and you lose ST performance doing so. 

 

For example using safe voltage my chip is only stable at 4.2ghz which is 100mhz more then PBO(50mhz or so with PBO working right). 

 

Amd even Robert Hallock refuses to say what the max voltage is which is bad on their part in my opinion but i guess from a legal standpoint its fine. 

 

Your little chip should hit 4.5-4.55ghz with AUTO OC as that is quite normal and during games that use only a few cores you should be able to get your chip to 4.4ghz or so with precision boost and pbo  

 

 

Lastly i REALLY hope you took my advise and downloaded Ryzen calculator as tweaking your memory is the best way to get the most out of these chips also pushing your Infinity Fabric try to get 1900mhz out of it! My 3700X could only do 1833mhz but that's still something haha. I have Samsung B-die memory and its at 3666mhz at 14-14-14-28 timings. 

 

Quick google result and this guy is seeing degradtion from just 1.375V

 

 

[Jesse221]

On 11/20/2019 at 7:50 PM, SMBGUY said:

Sorry for the late reply but the 200mhz boost almost always means 50mhz-100mhz at best i pretty much rarely come to linustechtips and follow overclock.net forms and i read so many threads where auto OC does nothing even except maybe on the 3600. 

 

We get the safe voltage table from something called the FIT table which is what TSMC basically says is safe to use for voltage sadly this is only given to certian people and isn't available to the public but luckily some have came forward to give us the info. 

 

 

To get the most out of my 3700X i have it set as followed

All voltages except Vcore is set to manual and with the recommended settings for ryzen calculator for my memory

PBO on max settings scalar set to X10(raises voltage table slightly). 

AUTO OC at 50mhz as 200mhz never see's frequency go above 4400mhz which is odd 

 

During games i have 4.25-4.325ghz and under load during a X265 encode i have 4075-4100mhz 

 

Please note that with AGESA 1.0.0.4 PBO is somewhat broken with EDC which is limiting my all core frequency a bit as i used to get 4150 on the same test. 

 

Keep voltage low as 10C can be as much as -75mhz during turbo. All core OC is a terrible way to overclock Zen+ and Zen 2 and you lose ST performance doing so. 

 

For example using safe voltage my chip is only stable at 4.2ghz which is 100mhz more then PBO(50mhz or so with PBO working right). 

 

Amd even Robert Hallock refuses to say what the max voltage is which is bad on their part in my opinion but i guess from a legal standpoint its fine. 

 

Your little chip should hit 4.5-4.55ghz with AUTO OC as that is quite normal and during games that use only a few cores you should be able to get your chip to 4.4ghz or so with precision boost and pbo  

 

 

Lastly i REALLY hope you took my advise and downloaded Ryzen calculator as tweaking your memory is the best way to get the most out of these chips also pushing your Infinity Fabric try to get 1900mhz out of it! My 3700X could only do 1833mhz but that's still something haha. I have Samsung B-die memory and its at 3666mhz at 14-14-14-28 timings. 

 

Quick google result and this guy is seeing degradtion from just 1.375V

 

 

Wow thanks for the reply and a lot of info. I think I may just end up leaving this chip on auto, it seems this is a bit more involved than the i7 4790k.  I’m surprised they don’t give a voltage spec, I hear what your saying about liability but when you do serious OC your going outside spec anyway and if doing minor OC sometimes you can just stay stock spec as was the case with my i7 4790k I had the upper voltage limit stay the same as what stock was (going off memory here I think that was 1.37) and at 1.37 I was able to have a very stable 4.6ghz boost speed so I had no fear running that chip at 4.6 since I had a big cooler on it and didn’t require any over voltage but with no max voltage spec from AMD then it makes it hard to know how good the chip can run at stock spec voltages.  Hopefully I explained that right.

 

auto voltage seems to allow the upper limit up to 1.47 is what I’ve seen but then auto OC sets limit to 1.34 yet it seems to keep that as a locked voltage so this chip must work completely different than what I’m used to.

[Mark Kaine]

That is generally a huge issue as motherboards tend to give too much voltage,  especially in

3 hours ago, Jesse221 said:

 

idle,  and even if you install the latest drivers / bios... 

 

And they [AMD] don't even warn you or anything. 

 

For the record Ryzen 3000 chips should not be over 1v while idling... If they are (which by all means seems to be set wrongly as default values,  around 1.35-1.45v) damage is expected to occur sooner or later 

 

 

I honestly hope some "news" agencies pick this up and AMD will be forced to compensate their customers,  or should I say victims? 

 

Please note how old this "reddit" thread is and it's still not completely fixed to my knowledge,  and also many people just don't update their drivers and such,  which honestly they shouldn't have to do in order to avoid damaging the product they just newly bought. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Jesse221 said:

Wow thanks for the reply and a lot of info. I think I may just end up leaving this chip on auto

And what's your idle voltage on "auto"?

[CPUguy101]

With the latest 1.0.0.4 Agesa and  the latest chipset drivers set to Ryzen Balance i get 0.2V-0.976V or so at idle, the issue is fixed. 

 

Like X99, X570(Zen2) was rushed it took them 4 months to fix the turbo issue and they still have PBO broken. In general its good to wait 6 months to upgrade to a newer architecture I wouldn't be surprised if Zen 3 has the same issues.

 

Plus newer chips are hitting better boost speeds that are coming out of TSMC from their process maturing. 

[Jesse221]

I will check my voltages in cpu-z when I get home and see.  Also how to I determine my system is truly “idle” do I need to disable anti viruses and other program like ai suite 3 that control my fans and water pump or what?

 

as for chipset drivers I always used the amd ones when I was using amd cpus in the past (phenom, 8320, 8350) but then I kept that same practice when I switched to intel and later found the intel chipset drivers from the mobo manufacturer are actually a lot different then the basic ME chipset drivers you get from intel.   So now I’m sticking with the chipset drivers Asus that are actually dated earlier than what’s current on AMD site but wondering if they are truly more designed for the Asus mobo like they do for intel or if they are just older AMD chipset drivers.

[Jesse221]

Hmm crap I missed the part where he mentions disabling other monitoring software because it’s not letting it idle.  I think ai suite would fall into this category yet I really can’t not use it because I went full water loop and in the mobo bios the w+ pump header has no control (100%) and that makes the pump a loud buzzing annoyance where ai suite for some reason can change the w+ header pwm curve.  Another bug for Asus bios I guess.