2700X+2080S or 3700X+5700XT?

[JPai]

Hey, I'm planning a new build! (ITX, because portable)

 

So for the same amount of money, I can get:

1. 3700X, Gigabyte X570 ITX, 5700XT ($0)

2. 2700X, ASRock Fatal1ty B450, 2080S (+$60)

3. 3600X, Gigabyte X570 ITX, 2070S (-$30)

 

And here's the dilemma (1440p):

- The 2700X will bottleneck the 2080S (I think), but will it still be overall faster than the 3700X+5700XT? (What about 3600X+2070S?) - Is the motherboard much worse? - I like doing small blender projects, coding, gaming, simulating (math&physics), etc.

[Princess Luna]

The 5700XT still is a bad pick for hardware acceleration tasks, if you could a Vega 64 or Radeon 7 are like best cards value wise there is for blender, maya, solidworks, any sort of CGI that benefits from OpenCL (even video editing like Vegas Pro).

 

5700XT is really a gaming specific card and it's amazing value at that, but if you are seriously thinking on hardware acceleration and want a brand new card without going Radeon 7 then sticking to CUDA will be a safer bet...

 

So with that in mind I'd consider a R7 3700X with the RTX 2070 Super...

[KodiakWithAK]

The 2700X will absolutely not bottleneck the 2080S. That's ridiculous and untrue. What's the obsession with bottleneck here?

 

Either way, the 2080S config will be much faster than the 5700XT setup. You do lose some functionality on the B450 board, but it should be fine for gaming and it is capable of supporting your config.

[JPai]

2 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

The 5700XT still is a bad pick for hardware acceleration tasks, if you could a Vega 64 or Radeon 7 are like best cards value wise there is for blender, maya, solidworks, any sort of CGI that benefits from OpenCL (even video editing like Vegas Pro).

I wouldn't mind those card, except I would also like good gaming performance (and I've heard bad things about the Radeon 7, although not sure if that's justified or not).

 

3 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

So with that in mind I'd consider a R7 3700X with the RTX 2070 Super...

That would cost more than going the 2700X+2080S route. Do you think the that's worth it?

 

3 minutes ago, KodiakWithAK said:

The 2700X will absolutely not bottleneck the 2080S. That's ridiculous and untrue. What's the obsession with bottleneck here?

I saw some people claiming it, so I assumed the worst. It did do much worse than the 8700K and 9700K, which might be the reasoning behind it?

 

4 minutes ago, KodiakWithAK said:

Either way, the 2080S config will be much faster than the 5700XT setup. You do lose some functionality on the B450 board, but it should be fine for gaming and it is capable of supporting your config.

Alright! What sorts of functionalities would I lose?

[KodiakWithAK]

4 minutes ago, JPai said:

I wouldn't mind those card, except I would also like good gaming performance (and I've heard bad things about the Radeon 7, although not sure if that's justified or not).

 

That would cost more than going the 2700X+2080S route. Do you think the that's worth it?

 

I saw some people claiming it, so I assumed the worst. It did do much worse than the 8700K and 9700K, which might be the reasoning behind it?

 

Alright! What sorts of functionalities would I lose?

If you stay AMD:

 

You'd lose CPU PCIE bifurcation, which is important to some people. It's basically the ability to split PCIE slots. 

 

If you go Intel (on a similar B360 chipset):

 

You'd lose CPU PCIE bifurcation, CPU overclocking and memory overclocking on some processor variants.

 

 

[Princess Luna]

5 minutes ago, JPai said:

That would cost more than going the 2700X+2080S route. Do you think the that's worth it?

Personally speaking I feel it's the best alternative because the 2070 Super is a very solid card at CUDA Acceleration meaning you will have something truly helping on your work while also being a tad faster at gaming than the RX 5700XT so no losses there.

 

I don't think you really need the 2080 Super... one thing is buying a 2080 Ti because you have the spare money but otherwise a cheaper card and just fine tuning the in game settings is a much more conscious thing to do:

 

About the R7 2700X vs R7 3700X, I also think it's worth it... the 2700X is a fine CPU but the 3700X solves all the gaming issues it has for the most part while it will also boost performance on all your other workloads and give you better memory support.

 

You can still use B450 motherboard with it btw there's virtually no loss there.

[Zando_]

25 minutes ago, JPai said:

I wouldn't mind those card, except I would also like good gaming performance (and I've heard bad things about the Radeon 7, although not sure if that's justified or not).

What bad things? I have a Radeon VII, can probably answer any questions you may have, and do any tests that use free easily set up software. Sadly don't have my Vega FE anymore so I can't test that (it's just a Vega 64 with 16GB VRAM), it did match/beat my two 1080s in simple cycles renders for a friend though, if you use the cycles renderer with openCL, Vega cards are insane. 

[Mathieu9836]

How about the 1080ti with a 2700

[JPai]

22 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

About the R7 2700X vs R7 3700X, I also think it's worth it... the 2700X is a fine CPU but the 3700X solves all the gaming issues it has for the most part while it will also boost performance on all your other workloads and give you better memory support.

Okay, I'll definitely keep that in mind. How about, say, a 3600/3600X? They seem to go better than the 2700X on most benchmarks, but are they more worth it?

 

22 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

Personally speaking I feel it's the best alternative because the 2070 Super is a very solid card at CUDA Acceleration meaning you will have something truly helping on your work while also being a tad faster at gaming than the RX 5700XT so no losses there.

Now that you've mentioned it, yeah.. it seems that all the benchmarks I've been using for judging my GPU selection are maxed out settings. How well would a 2070S run on high/medium settings?

 

Quote

You can still use B450 motherboard with it btw there's virtually no loss there.

It doesn't have BIOS flashback. Do you know if Canada Computers would do it for me or how I could do it myself without a CPU?

 

9 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

What bad things? I have a Radeon VII, can probably answer any questions you may have, and do any tests that use free easily set up software. Sadly don't have my Vega FE anymore so I can't test that (it's just a Vega 64 with 16GB VRAM), it did match/beat my two 1080s in simple cycles renders for a friend though, if you use the cycles renderer with openCL, Vega cards are insane. 

That it's extremely hot/power inefficient (which would be an issue given the ITX size). How good is its gaming performance? Also, it's still the same price, if not more than, as the 2080S where I am (Canada). Would that still be a good deal/price?

 

8 minutes ago, Mathieu9836 said:

How about the 1080ti with a 2700

I can't find cheap/reasonable priced 1080Ti's here. And shipping it in from the US could cost a lot in terms of customs/things. And isn't it about the same as a 2080S in terms of performance?

[Zando_]

4 minutes ago, JPai said:

That it's extremely hot/power inefficient (which would be an issue given the ITX size). How good is its gaming performance? Also, it's still the same price, if not more than, as the 2080S where I am (Canada). Would that still be a good deal/price?

Hot, yes. Stock cooler has the heatsink cut out to fit fans: 


Power inefficient? Pulls 200-300W depending on load and voltage (you can undervolt to solve most temp issues and lower power draw, I'm on water so I don't), not much more than a 1080 Ti. I run mine with an OCed 5820K in a custom loop, with an RM1000i so I can monitor full system power draw. If you want me to run some stress tests and see the max the whole system can pull under a CPU stress test and something like FurMark on the GPU, I can do that. 

Gaming Performance? In benchmarks it's usually behind the 1080 Ti at stock, due to underclocking because it ships pushing the max voltage (1.2v), most guys can push the stock clocks at 900mv-1v, lowering temps a lot and keeping clocks much more stable. On water I can push mine to 2030-2050Mhz, may be able to get it higher but I haven't spent any more time tinkering with it lately. In real world use, I didn't notice any difference at 1080p 144Hz or 4K 60Hz with my RVII (it was on air at the time) vs my Gaming X 1080 Ti, so I traded away the 1080 Ti. 

Price wise? They're discontinued so prices went way up, MSRP (and what I paid for mine on launch day) is $699 USD. If it's the same price as a 2080 Super, the 2080 or 2080 Super is a much better option for most tasks. Should offer great perf in anything using CUDA, and is faster in games. IDK how an OCed RVII compares to the 2080/2080 Super, some guys can hit 1950Mhz or so on air, but if you try and push much higher temps hit the yikes chief zone. 

 

[JPai]

4 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Price wise? They're discontinued so prices went way up, MSRP (and what I paid for mine on launch day) is $699 USD. If it's the same price as a 2080 Super, the 2080 or 2080 Super is a much better option for most tasks. Should offer great perf in anything using CUDA, and is faster in games. IDK how an OCed RVII compares to the 2080/2080 Super, some guys can hit 1950Mhz or so on air, but if you try and push much higher temps hit the yikes chief zone. 

Ah, no wonder. That is unfortunate, as I was hoping it would go down more.

 

5 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

most guys can push the stock clocks at 900mv-1v, lowering temps a lot and keeping clocks much more stable

What are the temperatures generally like?

 

[Zando_]

7 minutes ago, JPai said:

What are the temperatures generally like?

At stock voltages under heavy load the hotspot shoots up to 110C, often 115C which is the throttle point. With a more aggressive fan profile it stays at safe temps though it's pretty hot still (vegas always have been). I didn't do much undervolting when I was on the stock cooler.

On a waterblock with about 1.225v, slightly above stock, the hotspot maxes at 90C, maybe 93C. The rest of the GPU stays at like 50-60C, the hotspot is just what it bases clocks and fan speed off of (110C is safe, 115C is the throttling point). At stock under F@H load it sits at like 43C GPU, up to 60C hotspot, usually in the 50s. 

[JPai]

11 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

At stock voltages under heavy load the hotspot shoots up to 110C, often 115C which is the throttle point. With a more aggressive fan profile it stays at safe temps though it's pretty hot still (vegas always have been). I didn't do much undervolting when I was on the stock cooler.

On a waterblock with about 1.225v, slightly above stock, the hotspot maxes at 90C, maybe 93C. The rest of the GPU stays at like 50-60C, the hotspot is just what it bases clocks and fan speed off of (110C is safe, 115C is the throttling point). At stock under F@H load it sits at like 43C GPU, up to 60C hotspot, usually in the 50s. 

Oh wow, that seems like rather a lot of heat. I think given that the 2080S is the same price as it here, I'll probably end up going with that or the 2070S.

[Zando_]

2 minutes ago, JPai said:

Oh wow, that seems like rather a lot of heat. I think given that the 2080S is the same price as it here, I'll probably end up going with that or the 2070S.

Yeah, they're a better value and usually behave much better on the temps side, even though Turing is a bit hotter than Pascal IIRC. 

[Princess Luna]

55 minutes ago, JPai said:

How well would a 2070S run on high/medium settings?

It would crush it.

56 minutes ago, JPai said:

Okay, I'll definitely keep that in mind. How about, say, a 3600/3600X? They seem to go better than the 2700X on most benchmarks, but are they more worth it?

You could always get the R5 3600 with a solid mobo like the TUF you had in mind, it will game about the same as the 3700X, be lesser on workstation loads and multi-tasking but still adequate... and then you upgrade CPU here in 2 years or so to something newer and better... that's the good of AM4 upgrade path.

 

Don't bother with the R5 3600X though the only difference is the included box cooler, both CPU are the same.

58 minutes ago, JPai said:

It doesn't have BIOS flashback. Do you know if Canada Computers would do it for me or how I could do it myself without a CPU?

You might even get it with the BIOS updated already, B450 is still being produced and the newer boards have updated BIOS already but ultimately yes something like Canada Computers can update it for you in case of need.

 

[JPai]

1 hour ago, Princess Luna said:

You could always get the R5 3600 with a solid mobo like the TUF you had in mind, it will game about the same as the 3700X, be lesser on workstation loads and multi-tasking but still adequate... and then you upgrade CPU here in 2 years or so to something newer and better... that's the good of AM4 upgrade path.

Okay, that's good to know. I think I'll go with a slightly slower CPU for now.

 

1 hour ago, Princess Luna said:

You might even get it with the BIOS updated already, B450 is still being produced and the newer boards have updated BIOS already but ultimately yes something like Canada Computers can update it for you in case of need.

Perfect! Thank you! I was rather worried about it.