Entry level Audiophile

[A. Cole]

Hi all

This is following on from my post in Servers and NAS, In short when I make my next build, I plan to convert my current X99 system into a NAS and media centre.
I'm quite musically inclined with experience in a few different instruments, but I have never really ventured into the audiophile section.
Also my father bought a load of music from a radio station that closed down years back, these seem to be FLAC or WAV files as often a single track fills the HDD (the largest HDD i saw in this box was 68gb) on-top of this I have a decent small vinyl collection which I would like to play on the system, Is it easy to switch from PC to Turntable? also I've seen these turntable to digital converters, are they crap or not? 

The closest two examples would be a custom speaker set up in a car (JBL), and a old hi-fi turntable system and when I say old its pre 1970's (some Japanese brand I can't remember the name for) and believe it or not when I checked online, that particular Hi-Fi set could be bought with a cylinder player as an additional extra LOL

But in short, I discovered how much range some of my favourite music can have on a good system and was wondering what would be a good entry level audiophile system.
I'm also particular to brand matching, but I'm only familiar with a few speaker manufactures including; JBL (car only), Rainbow (car only), Pioneer, Harmon Kardio, Bose (which I was kind of put of by the Mazda RX-8 system) and Klipsch which is way outside my price range. Thats not including manufacturers in the music industry like Peevey etc. Note - I'm not too fussed about the set up, as I've helped set up stages indoor and out including finding acoustic sweet spots.

Budget is flexible as this will be an ongoing project, It will be going in a lounge set up, I would say up to £500 for a 2.0 system, up to £1200 for a 2.1 or 3.1 system and max £2000 for a 5.2 or 7.1 system, but preferably I wouldn't want to exceed £1000 so future upgrade-ability/addition is preferable
I have no DAC other than whats built into my X99 board, so that would need included in the budget.

Questions:
Should I get a sound card? I know most people say go external dac, but I'm thinking more a way to connect to a Hi-Fi controller rather than a small external DAC. In particular I have always wanted a Creative Labs card.

AMP? Sound blaster X7? is this a complete waste of budget or would it be a good head unit? Would I want a higher wattage amp? 

Software? what software will I need to run FLAC and other high fidelity files? will media player work or do I want something that's more like serato? 

Optical? right this one I have no clue about, I know how Fibre optics work but would you ever use the optical port on these speaker systems? what connection method's would you recommend ? DMX, Jacks, copper wire etc.

Speakers? this I probably need most help with, can you achieve "entry audiophile" level with these home cinema systems, or can I use Cabs and Amp's that musicians use or will these not have the right range? because I can get my hands on some Vox cabs. How do you tell apart audiophile speakers from regular bookshelf/desktop speakers? (it is resistance, or range, or anything else that can help me identify them) what wattage should I be looking for a medium sized room (something that's below the VR recommended size but would still be playable without breaking anything) I'm not really going for loud, I want clear audio.

Also, would you even recommend an "audiophile" set up for a home lounge? 

 

[theonlyratatoskr]

This is all just my suggestion so take this as you will. Though, I honestly hope it helps you.

 

Vinyl / Turntable

I would just buy a decent turntable in that case and plug it into a system that can receive multiple inputs. So you'll, for example, have Channels 1&2 for Turntable, 3&4 for PC in, 5&6 for DVD.... whatever...

It's likely that you're buying lower quality converters if you're buying something to convert your vinyls to .WAV files, so I would just buy the music online and download it if you want your vinyls digitized, because some professional will have already done this with a million $$$ studio.

 

My suggestion, don't bother with vinyl digitization, buy a turntable you can play your vinyls in and it will also look freeakin' awesome next to your speaker amp/DAC/etc.

 

Audio-Technica make awesome turntables for an even awesome-er price.

This will serve you just fine, I think: https://eu.audio-technica.com/turntables/AT-LP60XUSB

 

Speakers

I always suggest getting two higher quality speakers instead of 8 (7.1) medium quality speakers. Also, routing, upscaling from 2.1 to surround, etc. is a hassle for most people and you probably don't want to be messing with settings when you JUST. WANT. TO. LISTEN. TO. A. DAMN. SONG. Sorry.... I think you know what I mean haha

 

Surround systems are awesome, I've been into many 16.4 studios all with Genelecs and you're looking at 50,000+ in speakers ALONE. It's cool, and that's all. For music enjoyment, I suggest 2.0. Good speakers don't need a sub. A sub in a small room will just muddy everything up, as i'm sure you've realized in your indoor stage set ups.

 

I suggest Tannoy for you like a vintage look and sound. They've been around for a long long time and know their stuff.

 

Any of these will make you extremely happy:

https://www.whathifi.com/best-buys/best-british-speakers-2019-great-british-speakers-for-every-system

 

DAC

Would you be happy with a PCIe converter? something built into your computer?

Would you prefer a rack mounted unit? Personally, this is more expandable and future proof (and looks way cooler) but comes at a cost.

 

Top 15 DACS = https://www.techsounded.com/best-dacs/

Best Dacs = https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-dacs

 

Amp

Whether or not you go for passive or active speakers, is your call. Passive have the benefit of turning ONE unit on/off (the amp) and passive have the benefit of not needing an amp. I would go into your local Richer Sounds and testing out a few speakers until you find ones you like that are at your price point. Really: Only listen to things you can afford because anything more expensive will just make you feel disappointed. 

 

Also, keep in mind how it will (without a doubt) sound different in your listening environment, compared to the shop. However, go anyway to test out HOW systems sound different.

 

---

Finally, I would suggest making a list of all components you need. Decide if passive/active speakers and then go from there. Spend about the same amount of money for everything. The last thing you want is to have a 1,000 pound DAC and 50 pound speakers. Keep in mind the weakest link in the chain. It's much better to have everything be well paired, than a poorly paired high end system, because that'll just ruin your sound.

 

Finally, finally. haha..... don't forget the cost of cables. It's insane how much good quality cables cost.

 

I hope this helped. I hope you find a SICK system you can enjoy, dude! Send us pictures when you're all set up.

[Derkoli]

8 hours ago, A. Cole said:

Hi all

This is following on from my post in Servers and NAS, In short when I make my next build, I plan to convert my current X99 system into a NAS and media centre.
I'm quite musically inclined with experience in a few different instruments, but I have never really ventured into the audiophile section.
Also my father bought a load of music from a radio station that closed down years back, these seem to be FLAC or WAV files as often a single track fills the HDD (the largest HDD i saw in this box was 68gb) on-top of this I have a decent small vinyl collection which I would like to play on the system, Is it easy to switch from PC to Turntable? also I've seen these turntable to digital converters, are they crap or not? 

The closest two examples would be a custom speaker set up in a car (JBL), and a old hi-fi turntable system and when I say old its pre 1970's (some Japanese brand I can't remember the name for) and believe it or not when I checked online, that particular Hi-Fi set could be bought with a cylinder player as an additional extra LOL

But in short, I discovered how much range some of my favourite music can have on a good system and was wondering what would be a good entry level audiophile system.
I'm also particular to brand matching, but I'm only familiar with a few speaker manufactures including; JBL (car only), Rainbow (car only), Pioneer, Harmon Kardio, Bose (which I was kind of put of by the Mazda RX-8 system) and Klipsch which is way outside my price range. Thats not including manufacturers in the music industry like Peevey etc. Note - I'm not too fussed about the set up, as I've helped set up stages indoor and out including finding acoustic sweet spots.

Budget is flexible as this will be an ongoing project, It will be going in a lounge set up, I would say up to £500 for a 2.0 system, up to £1200 for a 2.1 or 3.1 system and max £2000 for a 5.2 or 7.1 system, but preferably I wouldn't want to exceed £1000 so future upgrade-ability/addition is preferable
I have no DAC other than whats built into my X99 board, so that would need included in the budget.

Questions:
Should I get a sound card? I know most people say go external dac, but I'm thinking more a way to connect to a Hi-Fi controller rather than a small external DAC. In particular I have always wanted a Creative Labs card.

AMP? Sound blaster X7? is this a complete waste of budget or would it be a good head unit? Would I want a higher wattage amp? 

Software? what software will I need to run FLAC and other high fidelity files? will media player work or do I want something that's more like serato? 

Optical? right this one I have no clue about, I know how Fibre optics work but would you ever use the optical port on these speaker systems? what connection method's would you recommend ? DMX, Jacks, copper wire etc.

Speakers? this I probably need most help with, can you achieve "entry audiophile" level with these home cinema systems, or can I use Cabs and Amp's that musicians use or will these not have the right range? because I can get my hands on some Vox cabs. How do you tell apart audiophile speakers from regular bookshelf/desktop speakers? (it is resistance, or range, or anything else that can help me identify them) what wattage should I be looking for a medium sized room (something that's below the VR recommended size but would still be playable without breaking anything) I'm not really going for loud, I want clear audio.

Also, would you even recommend an "audiophile" set up for a home lounge? 

 

If the home lounge has furniture, The system will sound decent in it, as furniture act as absorber's alot of the time. I would get an external DAC, not a soundcard as they are generally better for the price, and don't suffer from EMI. If you want to get a surround sound system, I would go for a decent denon/yamaha/pioneer model with atmos, so you can upgrade if you like, then a decent set of floorstanders for main channels, then bookshelfs for surrounds, and an SVS sub.
I mostly get into stereo stuff now, but used to run a Denon X8500H with 15.2.5, £2000 is a very nice budget for a 5.2/7.1 system, but i would go for a very nice stereo system ran by stereo amplifier for now. But i would recommend to put some more money into a stereo system, it would be better to spend more now, rather than upgrade later. If you extend your budget to just under (INSERT) then you could grab a pair of Dali spektor 6's, which are a very nice set of floorstanders. Then i would recommend the Cambridge audio AXA25, which is a very nice stereo amp with plenty of power and a good damping factor, so it will be very nice in the low frequencies, It also has a 5v usb out so you can power a DAC or bluetooth receiver from the amp. Then the audioengine D1 is a nice DAC, with good connectivity and looks.


IF you wanted to go for a full surround system, I would get a pair of Dali spektor 6's (for main's/front surrounds) and a pair of Dali spektor 2's (for rear/side surrounds) and then the Dali Spektor Vokal, And an SVS PB1000 and finally the Denon AVRX2600H, Which will cost you £1985 at Richer Sounds, this is an excellent surround system and will last for decades aslong as you care for them nicely.

[Derkoli]

44 minutes ago, theonlyratatoskr said:

I would go into your local Richer Sounds

Ey, richer sounds buddies.

 

44 minutes ago, theonlyratatoskr said:

It's insane how much good quality cables cost.

Haha, tell me about it.. Got so many weird looks when i walked out of richer sounds with my speaker cables, was staring at them all the way home on the bus... (QED supremus 2M)

[theonlyratatoskr]

20 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

cables

Speaking of expensive cables. Check out this CAT7 beast.

[Derkoli]

9 minutes ago, theonlyratatoskr said:

Speaking of expensive cables. Check out this CAT7 beast.

Must get one to connect my non existent music streamer to my ethernet switch, Meanwhile, check out this beast:

[A. Cole]

1 hour ago, Derkoli said:

If the home lounge has furniture, The system will sound decent in it, as furniture act as absorber's alot of the time. I would get an external DAC, not a soundcard as they are generally better for the price, and don't suffer from EMI. If you want to get a surround sound system, I would go for a decent denon/yamaha/pioneer model with atmos, so you can upgrade if you like, then a decent set of floorstanders for main channels, then bookshelfs for surrounds, and an SVS sub.
I mostly get into stereo stuff now, but used to run a Denon X8500H with 15.2.5, £2000 is a very nice budget for a 5.2/7.1 system, but i would go for a very nice stereo system ran by stereo amplifier for now. But i would recommend to put some more money into a stereo system, it would be better to spend more now, rather than upgrade later. If you extend your budget to just under (INSERT) then you could grab a pair of Dali spektor 6's, which are a very nice set of floorstanders. Then i would recommend the Cambridge audio AXA25, which is a very nice stereo amp with plenty of power and a good damping factor, so it will be very nice in the low frequencies, It also has a 5v usb out so you can power a DAC or bluetooth receiver from the amp. Then the audioengine D1 is a nice DAC, with good connectivity and looks.


IF you wanted to go for a full surround system, I would get a pair of Dali spektor 6's (for main's/front surrounds) and a pair of Dali spektor 2's (for rear/side surrounds) and then the Dali Spektor Vokal, And an SVS PB1000 and finally the Denon AVRX2600H, Which will cost you £1985 at Richer Sounds, this is an excellent surround system and will last for decades aslong as you care for them nicely.

I think I might have found my good entry point, there's a bundle at the nearest Hifix if anyone can give an opinion on the Denon DM41DABwith 2x Dali Spektors and im thinking of pairing it with the spektor vokal centre speak all coming to £595 which seems like a good entry point.

I might still get an external PCI-e sound card just because I've always liked keeping up to date with them, I've got like 5 full sized PCI-e slots (mix between x8 and x16 bandwith) and i'll probably try and excuse myself for it by saying its extra shielding for the data before it leaves the pc (because RTX cards have been known to interfere with onboard audio) but deep down they just look cool and I remember seeing my cousins ugly old ass gaming pc with sound cards and all the 5.25" populated with fan controllers and shit, it was brown and hidious and i pre-2000's gaming pc and I loved it XD plus gives me more budget for HDD's and shit XD 

and as much as i love RJ45 cables, fiber is better on paper for pretty much everything, and there's spare fiber NIC cards at my work if I ever want one XD

EDIT
when I was looking into the Denon DM41DAB I noticed it only had two channels. 
Going back to the creative labs - sound blaster X7 It seems to plenty of connectivity for the future, would this work with the Dali Spektors? 
I think it would look good near a lounge TV 

[theonlyratatoskr]

That Denon system looks great! 

 

Though, why hook up your Dali speakers to the above triangle when you'll have a nice Denon amp? Just go Optical out from the triangle and hook up the speakers to the Denon amp.

 

Sorry, I just can't get over the triangle's triangularity. haha

 

16 hours ago, A. Cole said:

cards have been known to interfere with onboard audio

Too true, and quite sad the engineers didn't address this with proper shielding/grounding. Though I understand for budgeting issues.

[A. Cole]

4 hours ago, theonlyratatoskr said:

That Denon system looks great! 

 

Though, why hook up your Dali speakers to the above triangle when you'll have a nice Denon amp? Just go Optical out from the triangle and hook up the speakers to the Denon amp.

 

Sorry, I just can't get over the triangle's triangularity. haha

 

Too true, and quite sad the engineers didn't address this with proper shielding/grounding. Though I understand for budgeting issues.

Yeah it is very triangular, but my case as allot of angles (and is white) so should look nice in the same set up

The Denon system doesn't seem to be very future proof, it only has two speaker channels for the speakers its paired with, which means I would need another amp for the centre speaker which isn't ideal really.
On-top of that, the difference between that bundle and the speakers as a pair without the amp makes it £226 for the Denon amp, which is 30w, where as the limited edition X7 is £289 (£60 more) for 2x50w (100w), many more channels and a much smaller footprint with the non limited being £239, 2x38w (76w).

Budget doesn't cut it, because the RTX cards are the worst for making background noise in the PC, these are cards at like £1-2k so should have enough in there budget for proper shielding.

[Derkoli]

12 minutes ago, A. Cole said:

Yeah it is very triangular, but my case as allot of angles (and is white) so should look nice in the same set up

The Denon system doesn't seem to be very future proof, it only has two speaker channels for the speakers its paired with, which means I would need another amp for the centre speaker which isn't ideal really.
On-top of that, the difference between that bundle and the speakers as a pair without the amp makes it £226 for the Denon amp, which is 30w, where as the limited edition X7 is £289 (£60 more) for 2x50w (100w), many more channels and a much smaller footprint with the non limited being £239, 2x38w (76w).

Budget doesn't cut it, because the RTX cards are the worst for making background noise in the PC, these are cards at like £1-2k so should have enough in there budget for proper shielding.

The X7 only has two powered channels like the denon. The 5.1 is pre-out, you'll need a 5 channel amp. You want a decent integrated amplifier, not the X7, I would get an AVR and two decent floorstanders for now, then add a centre if you would look. Some Rel subwoofers are pretty cheap aswell if you wanted one.

[RejZoR]

External DAC's are so overrated and overpraised. They are just dumb output bricks. They don't even have EQ, let alone anything else. Sound Blaster AE-5 or AE-7 should do the trick with high quality and more control than any DAC ever offers.

[Derkoli]

16 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

External DAC's are so overrated and overpraised. They are just dumb output bricks. They don't even have EQ, let alone anything else. Sound Blaster AE-5 or AE-7 should do the trick with high quality and more control than any DAC ever offers.

*cough* RME ADI-2 *cough* (i'm not hating, just saying DAC's with a tonne of control and EQ exist, expensive though..)

[RejZoR]

And these aren't the shit people stick in USB ports and think they grabbed gods by the balls...

[rice guru]

21 hours ago, A. Cole said:

I think I might have found my good entry point, there's a bundle at the nearest Hifix if anyone can give an opinion on the Denon DM41DABwith 2x Dali Spektors and im thinking of pairing it with the spektor vokal centre speak all coming to £595 which seems like a good entry point.

I might still get an external PCI-e sound card just because I've always liked keeping up to date with them, I've got like 5 full sized PCI-e slots (mix between x8 and x16 bandwith) and i'll probably try and excuse myself for it by saying its extra shielding for the data before it leaves the pc (because RTX cards have been known to interfere with onboard audio) but deep down they just look cool and I remember seeing my cousins ugly old ass gaming pc with sound cards and all the 5.25" populated with fan controllers and shit, it was brown and hidious and i pre-2000's gaming pc and I loved it XD plus gives me more budget for HDD's and shit XD 

and as much as i love RJ45 cables, fiber is better on paper for pretty much everything, and there's spare fiber NIC cards at my work if I ever want one XD

EDIT
when I was looking into the Denon DM41DAB I noticed it only had two channels. 
Going back to the creative labs - sound blaster X7 It seems to plenty of connectivity for the future, would this work with the Dali Spektors? 
I think it would look good near a lounge TV 

Don't use the x7 it does a lot but does none of them well. 

[rice guru]

50 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

External DAC's are so overrated and overpraised. They are just dumb output bricks. They don't even have EQ, let alone anything else. Sound Blaster AE-5 or AE-7 should do the trick with high quality and more control than any DAC ever offers.

Usb dacs while mostly nhyped for what they do. Tend to provide a cleaner signal than an internal card due to them being shielded and have high quality dac chips in them. You can also use free software solutions  like equalizer apo. And stay cleaner and cheaper than the ae5 or 7 . Like a prebuilt PC vs custom build.

[Volbet]

22 hours ago, Derkoli said:

Must get one to connect my non existent music streamer to my ethernet switch, Meanwhile, check out this beast:
 

I have a friend that manage a high-end audio shop that sell Nordstrom cables exclusivly. They're litteraly the only brand of cables they sell. 

So I've been able to get my hands on quite a selection of their range. Litteraly every test I've done with any piece of technology I can think off has shown absolutly nothing. 

 

On 8/29/2019 at 11:24 AM, A. Cole said:

on-top of this I have a decent small vinyl collection which I would like to play on the system, Is it easy to switch from PC to Turntable? also I've seen these turntable to digital converters, are they crap or not? 

Depends on how you hook it all up. 

A turntable will only take up a single analog input on whatever device you plan on using. 

 

An ADC isn't really a very complicated device. Most of them will do a fine job converting an analog signal into something that can be intrepreted by your computer. 

I've been using the line-in port on an Asus D2X for making digital copies of my records for years and it sounds just fine. 

[Derkoli]

1 hour ago, Volbet said:

I have a friend that manage a high-end audio shop that sell Nordstrom cables exclusivly. They're litteraly the only brand of cables they sell. 

So I've been able to get my hands on quite a selection of their range. Litteraly every test I've done with any piece of technology I can think off has shown absolutly nothing. 

It was extremely satire. I would not spend that much on an ethernet cable or speaker cable.

[Volbet]

41 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

It was extremely satire. I would not spend that much on an ethernet cable or speaker cable.

I know, or at least I was assuming so. If you were in the boat of buying $20,000 power cables you would be a lost cause, anyway. 

[JessicaLee]

On 8/29/2019 at 7:39 PM, theonlyratatoskr said:

DAC

Would you be happy with a PCIe converter? something built into your computer?

Would you prefer a rack mounted unit? Personally, this is more expandable and future proof (and looks way cooler) but comes at a cost.

 

Top 15 DACS = https://www.techsounded.com/best-dacs/

Best Dacs = https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-dacs

Here's another for your list!

 

Best USB DACs = https://www.audiostance.com/usb-dac/

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, JessicaLee said:

Here's another for your list!

 

Best USB DACs = https://www.audiostance.com/usb-dac/

I don't trust a list that puts the e10k as best overall.  It's a list that came out this year and it's already outdated. 

[HumdrumPenguin]

The list is hit or miss in my opinion. And the best value DAC to me lies with RME and it's ADI-2, although one can argue that the absolute cheapest DAC is the one with the best value: music > no music at all (which I'd disagree; some crap is just better left alone). 

[pas008]

On 8/30/2019 at 12:41 PM, rice guru said:

Don't use the x7 it does a lot but does none of them well. 

my x7 is perfect

got rid of my av reciever went stereo for music in my office anyways

got rid of my mixer

shit got rid of my whole av rack and dacs amps etc

i honestly didnt see the need for anything else after

but saving the av rack for when my basement is finished

please inform me what am i missing ?

what doesnt it do well?

 

but for media center music nas

i'd use av receiver all day long