Which Cooler for i9-9900KF

[Molesy]

9 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

the few 32 GB sticks that are on market are very slow. while you can maybe get something from overclocking. any IMC is gonna have a nighmare getting anything more than 2666 mhz. 

i see. I always though on intel the memeory speed did not make much of a difference in performance i know AMD was greatly affected by it though. 

7 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

unless you explicitly disable the iGPU in BIOS. its still there. and if you arent going to use quicksync anyways. a threadripper or 3900x makes more sense. 

oh really. I though if it was not in use it would just sit there doing nothing as everything would be running of the dedicated card.

 

[Princess Luna]

14 minutes ago, Molesy said:

ASUS

More importantly I get it you're coming from X99 days when ASUS was seen as top notch but nowadays specially for Z390 their boards aside the really highest end ones like the Extreme and GENE are all overpriced and underwhelming. The Hero is the worse 200+ dollars board on value sense.

 

If you want to go Z390 aim for the Aorus Master which costs the same as the Hero but it is stupidly superior in every way.

 

14 minutes ago, Molesy said:

The 128GB is more for working in after effects and Premier as loading lost of videos i would need to have the buffer.

64GB should suffice for it, have you used more memory on your previous workstation?

14 minutes ago, Molesy said:

I saw that the i9 9900K supports 128GB and the new BIOS for the Z390 for ASUS says support for 32GB DIMMS.

Yes Coffee Lake supports it on paper, but supporting it does not mean it's gonna be a good experience. You will have a terrible time on stability and performance wise, the IMC was made to work optimally with 64GB the only reason Intel forced 128GB on paper is because Zen 2 supports 128GB as well and they didn't want to look inferior. It is like @GoldenLag said... 2666mhz with loosen timings at best and who knows about reliability.

14 minutes ago, Molesy said:

but once I have a Nvidia RTX 2070 connected the iGPU will anyways be disabled so quicksync will not really work right ?

You can enable the iGPU through BIOS even if you have a dedicate GPU, while it won't be displaying anything it can be used for hardware acceleration.

14 minutes ago, Molesy said:

that's why was considering the F as i have a dedicated GPU and the F is cheaper as it does not have the iGPU.

I find surprising you want 128GB of memory for Adobe which makes it sound you'll truly work professionally with it but you haven't done enough research to know what QuickSync Hardware Acceleration is.

 

You will be saving up a couple of dollars with the F model since it doesn't have a functioning iGPU yes, but then you'll be sacrificing the main if not only reason people still recommend Intel for Adobe, the QuickSync hardware acceleration through iGPU:

-

-

 

As you can see QuickSync can be used alongside CUDA Acceleration, the performance gains are so mind blowing we can see the i7 8700K (6c/12t) matching up the TR 1950X (16c/32t).

This can be used not only for rendering but encoding, exporting and many other tools.

 

So if you're not getting it by going 9900KF you'll be wasting money instead of saving up, in that case the R9 3900X becomes the FAR superior choice as @GoldenLag mentioned.

 

Quote

i see. I always though on intel the memeory speed did not make much of a difference in performance i know AMD was greatly affected by it though. 

Maybe back on Ivy Bridge and DDR3 days, but now memory is just as crucial and important as any other component.

[Molesy]

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

More importantly I get it you're coming from X99 days when ASUS was seen as top notch but nowadays specially for Z390 their boards aside the really highest end ones like the Extreme and GENE are all overpriced and underwhelming. The Hero is the worse 200+ dollars board on value sense.

 

If you want to go Z390 aim for the Aorus Master which costs the same as the Hero but it is stupidly superior in every way.

Yea i currently have a Asus X99 i7 5960X so been on it for 5 years so planning to finally change. The Aoris Master is about $150 more than the Asus Prime i am currently looking at. I remember when i looked at the Gigabyte X99 BIOS as a friends place the BIOS layout was so un-logical compared to my i7 2600 Gigabyte board at the time. so thats one of the reason i went with ASUS as it was a lot more intuitive as well as i had a local service center. When i started having issues on my 2600 the reason i went to x99 at the time trying to get support from Gigabyte was a nightmare send multiple emails as no phone number or local center and got like 1 reply a week later  I am in AUS by the way so we are like super far from everyone lol. So local support also play a role for me in chosing components. The other reason i am considering intel we have a IT company near us and they are a Intel authorised partner so they can get a replacement CPU etc for us really quick. they made a whole presentation as to why we should move to them. 

 

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

64GB should suffice for it, have you used more memory on your previous workstation?

yea currently on 32GB i used it up quite a bit. also got to remember chrome the memory hog of the apps   While this PC will be mostly for work their will be some gaming on here on like the cyperpunk 2077 etc. so that is why when i saw a main stream PC now has 128Gb i though it would be a great time to move to it.  My current ram is a 8 x 4 2400Mhz as well. as i moved to the X99 when it was just released so that was like the best memory at the time. works quite well for me. 

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

Yes Coffee Lake supports it on paper, but supporting it does not mean it's gonna be a good experience. You will have a terrible time on stability and performance wise, the IMC was made to work optimally with 64GB the only reason Intel forced 128GB on paper is because Zen 2 supports 128GB as well and they didn't want to look inferior. It is like @GoldenLag said... 2666mhz with loosen timings at best and who knows about reliability.

oh i did not know Zen 2 did that. does that mean the Zen 2 would have 8 DIMM slots on the boards ? 

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

You can enable the iGPU through BIOS even if you have a dedicate GPU, while it won't be displaying anything it can be used for hardware acceleration.

I find surprising you want 128GB of memory for Adobe which makes it sound you'll truly work professionally with it but you haven't done enough research to know what QuickSync Hardware Acceleration is.

As i was on the i7 2600 then 5960X i never really got to experience the quicksync. but i have always had great stability on my intel systems so would like to stick with that for now. 

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

 

You will be saving up a couple of dollars with the F model since it doesn't have a functioning iGPU yes, but then you'll be sacrificing the main if not only reason people still recommend Intel for Adobe, the QuickSync hardware acceleration through iGPU:

-

-

 

As you can see QuickSync can be used alongside CUDA Acceleration, the performance gains are so mind blowing we can see the i7 8700K (6c/12t) matching up the TR 1950X (16c/32t).

This can be used not only for rendering but encoding, exporting and many other tools.

 

So if you're not getting it by going 9900KF you'll be wasting money instead of saving up, in that case the R9 3900X becomes the FAR superior choice as @GoldenLag mentioned.

Did not know this was the case. Well i can deff spend on the K only then to get this extra boost.

 

I guess at this time its now more memeory and cooler to chose and thus PC case. 

[Princess Luna]

Just now, Molesy said:

The Aoris Master is about $150 more than the Asus Prime i am currently looking at.

That is because the Prime you're looking at is not recommended for 5ghz overclock.

 

1 minute ago, Molesy said:

so thats one of the reason i went with ASUS as it was a lot more intuitive as well as i had a local service center.

Things have greatly changed from i7 2600K's days, there is no point on buying an underwhelming board that will fail to overclock consistently just because it has a pretty BIOS, on this matter your entire stress over the cooler was pointless, just buy the locked i9 9900 which already has great frequency boosts and runs on these low end boards with lesser coolers.

2 minutes ago, Molesy said:

The other reason i am considering intel we have a IT company near us and they are a Intel authorised partner so they can get a replacement CPU etc for us really quick. they made a whole presentation as to why we should move to them. 

This is really not a big deal, components like CPU don't just fail at any meaningful rate (if you're pairing it with the correct hardware at least like a good board lol), I don't know where you live but in reality RMA shouldn't be any faster than if you were using AMD.

4 minutes ago, Molesy said:

yea currently on 32GB i used it up quite a bit. also got to remember chrome the memory hog of the apps   While this PC will be mostly for work their will be some gaming on here on like the cyperpunk 2077 etc. so that is why when i saw a main stream PC now has 128Gb i though it would be a great time to move to it.  My current ram is a 8 x 4 2400Mhz as well. as i moved to the X99 when it was just released so that was like the best memory at the time. works quite well for me. 

Doubling the memory to 64GB will already do what you want, you do not truly seem to need to need 128GB and I'd argue in selling your current memory and getting a more up-to-date kit rated for higher frequency and lower timings since as mentioned it matters a lot more today.

 

5 minutes ago, Molesy said:

oh i did not know Zen 2 did that. does that mean the Zen 2 would have 8 DIMM slots on the boards ? 

Greatest majority of boards don't because again there's no reason for them to support, everything you can still do with mainstream consumers CPUs are usually perfectly fine with 64GB of memory, if you need 128GB you go to HEDT, if you can't afford a HEDT system but need 128GB then you're on the wrong business.

8 minutes ago, Molesy said:

As i was on the i7 2600 then 5960X i never really got to experience the quicksync. but i have always had great stability on my intel systems so would like to stick with that for now. 

Things have changed a lot, AMD is not the same from FX processors days, in fact Zen 2 is considered a better all in all workstation CPU than Intel's Coffee Lake, there exceptions sure but like mentioned you're neglecting the more meaningful ones by ditching the iGPU.

 

Intel might still seem more stable on Adobe yes, they work closer than AMD.

 

Regarding QuickSync technology, no wonder you haven't heard it as it also is something relatively new, I mean this is computers world they advance fast and if you stay stagnated in the past you will miss out a lot.

 

10 minutes ago, Molesy said:

Did not know this was the case. Well i can deff spend on the K only then to get this extra boost.

Yes please.

[G00fySmiley]

Noctua NH-D15 will outperform the dark rock pro 4 from the tests I have seen... but they both do a good job so it you like the looks more for that go for it (it is understandable, not everybody appreciates the noctua brown) its a few degrees warmer but neither one with pull you into thermal throttle zone. Just make sure your case has plenty of airflow to keep that heat pumping out.   

[Molesy]

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

That is because the Prime you're looking at is not recommended for 5ghz overclock.

I see. Well I could go for a lower OC. i am not hell bent at 5Ghz.  but will look into it more. I am look at the Prime-A not the -P not sure if that makes a difference. the -P looks like it might just die putting in the i9 lol. I guess the other one i was considering if i save up a bit more is the ROG Strix Z390-F possibly. but at a glance it looked similar to the Prime-A but with more RGB etc and a Wifi Card. so since i did not need wifi i was going with the Prime-A

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

 

Things have greatly changed from i7 2600K's days, there is no point on buying an underwhelming board that will fail to overclock consistently just because it has a pretty BIOS, on this matter your entire stress over the cooler was pointless, just buy the locked i9 9900 which already has great frequency boosts and runs on these low end boards with lesser coolers.

Only 9900K and KF in stores here. no non K versions  

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

This is really not a big deal, components like CPU don't just fail at any meaningful rate (if you're pairing it with the correct hardware at least like a good board lol), I don't know where you live but in reality RMA shouldn't be any faster than if you were using AMD.

The reason was we had a intel NUC in office which was still under warranty. when we asked the place we purchased it from they said it would take 2-3 week min to get it tested and get a new unit. while the IT guys had a look at it and they got a new unit under RA in like 3 days. and sent back the old one to intel direct. apparently the cooling fan had failed. so like 3 Days was really good. but i guess that was a whole system and this is only the CPU. 

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

Doubling the memory to 64GB will already do what you want, you do not truly seem to need to need 128GB and I'd argue in selling your current memory and getting a more up-to-date kit rated for higher frequency and lower timings since as mentioned it matters a lot more today.

Humm will have to think about it. as 32GB was used with just 1080P videos. if i start doing more 4K projects then i am thinking the 128GB will be really useful.Like I checked my local store the cheapest 4 *16GB kit from corsair /gskill is $499 after the sale price, with the same speed as the 2*32GB kit at same price of $499. Pricing here is just shit. The next level up of speed is 3200 16-18-18-36 at $699   

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

 

Greatest majority of boards don't because again there's no reason for them to support, everything you can still do with mainstream consumers CPUs are usually perfectly fine with 64GB of memory, if you need 128GB you go to HEDT, if you can't afford a HEDT system but need 128GB then you're on the wrong business.

The main reason for not going to intel HEDT and Thread-ripper is entry into those market seems quite a bit higher and you tend to need more AIO style stuff right ? so price jumps up a fair bit. The main stream CPU with a 128GB memory is actually bang for buck for video editing and 3D work i must say. most renders are moving to GPU these days so that why went with the RTX 2070 super. So having 8core / 16 threads is quite enough for most jobs. and the 128GB allows you to work on 4K projects with a lot of effects etc loaded. My tutor for these was wishing this was there when he got his syste. i think he went HEDT though so he could have 4GPU for GPU rendering stuff. 

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

Things have changed a lot, AMD is not the same from FX processors days, in fact Zen 2 is considered a better all in all workstation CPU than Intel's Coffee Lake, there exceptions sure but like mentioned you're neglecting the more meaningful ones by ditching the iGPU.

yea so deff will go with the igpu SKU to gain that benefit. might still consider AMD depends how the pricing is here. but i think with zen you need faster memory so with memory pricing here i might end up with similar pricing as intel.  is there any bench marks to see how much memory speed affects intel performance in apps like CC ? would be great to know how much performance i would be leaving on the table by going down to 2400Mhz

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

 

Intel might still seem more stable on Adobe yes, they work closer than AMD.

yea i think my ryzen 4th gen AMD will be on par with intel in adobe CC and workstations atleast. i think adobe has finally noticed but are slow to move. 

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

 

Regarding QuickSync technology, no wonder you haven't heard it as it also is something relatively new, I mean this is computers world they advance fast and if you stay stagnated in the past you will miss out a lot.

I have heard of it but never really got to see it in practice so have nothing to compare it to, and as once you have a dedicated GPU and the iGPU gets disabled by default i though why bother. and even if it was enabled i assumed it would not help as you would need to have a display connected or something. 

4 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

 

Yes please.

 

3 minutes ago, G00fySmiley said:

Noctua NH-D15 will outperform the dark rock pro 4 from the tests I have seen... but they both do a good job so it you like the looks more for that go for it (it is understandable, not everybody appreciates the noctua brown) its a few degrees warmer but neither one with pull you into thermal throttle zone. Just make sure your case has plenty of airflow to keep that heat pumping out.   

great Thanks. 

[Molesy]

@Princess Luna so also thinking I go with the Dark Rock TF as that is a 220W TDP cooler and is blowing air onto the VRM's so that will help with the temps on the board. Also since a all core turbo pulls around 210W in the worst case scenario i guess the DRTF would be ok unless i go for the DRP4 for the extra safety mmargin but lose the VRM cooling and will have to relay on case air flow.

[Princess Luna]

1 minute ago, Molesy said:

.

It's up to you the Dark Rock TF works yeah but instead of going that route I'd simply buy a motherboard with good VRM like the Aorus Elite~Ultra~Master instead of the many much worse ASUS alternatives you've been insisting on, price for price you could just use the vanilla Dark Rock 4 or similar to cheap up enough to afford the more appropriated board.

 

Here's the chart list:

[Triboal]

If you have a solid motherboard choice, as shown in the table posted by @Princess Luna with good VRMs and a good VRM heatsink (i.e. Aorus Ultra or Master) then the VRMs won't require much extra cooling assuming you have decent case air flow. 

 

DR4 would do the trick (as again showed by @Princess Luna) and you could save the money as opposed to going to a DRP4 or even NH-D15. You could even go with 32GB RAM for now and use the money saved to invest in a better motherboard (relating back to my previous point) and then just upgrade the RAM later as it's easy to add on and will be less of a burden to do so. If you're planning to go for 128GB then just give up on the build now and start looking at the HEDT market.

 

I, personally, still think it's worth going to Zen 2 to either the 3900X or the 3950X if you're trully looking for workstation usage. Sure, Intel has an advantage in Adobe applications due to QuickSync technology and etc. but you have to ask yourself whether it's worth paying extra for the 9900k and co. compared to going with Ryzen. I'm not saying you shouldn't go for the 9900k, I just think you should just give better consideration for all options available to you including maybe waiting until next month when the 3950X comes out and see how it performs. And the "IT at work has an agreement with Intel and can replace CPU quickly" shouldn't really be a factor unless you can purchase Intel CPUs through them for a cheaper price compared to what's currently being asked for in the consumer market.

 

Plus, CPUs nowadays are pretty durable unless you purposely put stupid voltages through them, decide to go CPU cooler-free for whatever reason (and even then most CPUs would probably start to thermal throttle before they'd go "up in flames") or invest in a very low quality power delivery motherboard.