Design PC

[JReeves]

Hi team, I need some help with a PC that will handle design work - primarily in Adobe CC - Illustrator predominately but some photo / graphic editing.  Our file sizes are already 1GB + and I can only expect that to increase with our projected work.

 

I was about to hit the go button on the rig below which is AUD 3,899.  However, I have just seen Linus' video on the new Ryzen range and am now wondering if there is a better AMD option or if this build will suffice.  

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 https://www.mwave.com.au/product/mwave-cad-pro-i9-rtx-4000-workstation-ac22591 

1xThermaltake Suppressor F31 Mid-Tower ATX Case
1xCorsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz Memory
1xASUS DRW-24D5MT 24x Internal DVD Burner
1xCorsair Hydro Series H60 v2 (2018) 120mm High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
1xSeasonic SSR-650FM Focus 80+ Gold Semi Modular Power Supply
1xIntel Core i9 9900K Octa Core LGA 1151 3.60GHz Unlocked CPU Processor
1xASUS PRIME Z390-A LGA 1151 ATX Motherboard
1xSamsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB NVMe 1.3 M.2 (2280) 3-Bit V-NAND SSD - MZ-V7S500BW
1xLeadtek NVIDIA Quadro RTX 4000 8GB Video Card

[maartendc]

5 hours ago, JReeves said:

Hi team, I need some help with a PC that will handle design work - primarily in Adobe CC - Illustrator predominately but some photo / graphic editing.  Our file sizes are already 1GB + and I can only expect that to increase with our projected work.

 

I was about to hit the go button on the rig below which is AUD 3,899.  However, I have just seen Linus' video on the new Ryzen range and am now wondering if there is a better AMD option or if this build will suffice.  

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 https://www.mwave.com.au/product/mwave-cad-pro-i9-rtx-4000-workstation-ac22591 

1xThermaltake Suppressor F31 Mid-Tower ATX Case
1xCorsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz Memory
1xASUS DRW-24D5MT 24x Internal DVD Burner
1xCorsair Hydro Series H60 v2 (2018) 120mm High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
1xSeasonic SSR-650FM Focus 80+ Gold Semi Modular Power Supply
1xIntel Core i9 9900K Octa Core LGA 1151 3.60GHz Unlocked CPU Processor
1xASUS PRIME Z390-A LGA 1151 ATX Motherboard
1xSamsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB NVMe 1.3 M.2 (2280) 3-Bit V-NAND SSD - MZ-V7S500BW
1xLeadtek NVIDIA Quadro RTX 4000 8GB Video Card

As a design professional myself (mostly CAD / REVIT, but also use Adobe CC suite) I would go with something like below, and save some cash:

 

While the 9900K is technically slightly faster for Adobe only, if you run any other software, the AMD 3900X will likely be faster. It has 12 cores, instead of only 8 cores for the 9900K, so it will likely be more future proof. It is not far behind the 9900K in single core performance. Also, if Adobe ever wants to support more cores finally, it will beat the 9900K as well in Adobe. You also save money on the motherboard going with AMD, as you don't need a Z motherboard to allow OC. B450 motherboard will suffice.

 

I would not get an expensive Quadro card, unless you absolutely need it for some reason (I run CAD software on consumer cards, never had any issue). The Radeon VII is a beast of a card for compute workloads, and has 16GB of extremely fast memory. If you do any kind of rendering on the GPU, the Radeon VII would beat most Quadro card I believe, but it really depends on the software application. Some cards like Nvidia, others AMD. If your software favors Nvidia, I would get a RTX 2080. Have a look https://www.anandtech.com/show/13923/the-amd-radeon-vii-review/17

 

I would get the Corsair MP510 SSD, way cheaper, and just as fast as the Samsung 970 Evo, if not faster. Get 960 GB, as the bigger drives perform better.

 

Other than that, case, PSU, etc is more personal preference. Seasonic is solid PSU. Corsair makes good CPU coolers, although you get a solid boxed cooler with the Ryzen CPU.

Good luck!

 

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor  ($789.00 @ Austin Computers)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H60 54 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($103.00 @ PC Byte)
Motherboard: MSI - B450 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($169.00 @ Shopping Express)
Memory: G.Skill - Sniper X 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($251.00 @ Skycomp Technology)
Storage: Corsair - MP510 960 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($201.21 @ Newegg Australia)
Video Card: ASRock - Radeon VII 16 GB Phantom Gaming X Video Card  ($1149.00 @ Austin Computers)
Case: Thermaltake - Suppressor F31 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($125.00 @ BudgetPC)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply  ($129.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Optical Drive: Asus - DRW-24D5MT DVD/CD Writer  ($16.00 @ Shopping Express)
Total: $2932.21
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-07-09 22:24 AEST+1000

[brob]

Generally I'd suggest the highest clock speed cpu for Photoshop and Illustrator. However the new 3000 Amd cpu have a higher IPC (instructions per clock) than current Intel cpu. As a result they have similar or better performance than Intel counterparts at lower clock speeds. Unfortunately the data is still being developed, so we don't know yet what the performance difference will generally be for applications like Photoshop and Illustrator.

 

Unless you have a specific need for an optical drive, it probably isn't necessary. Software including Windows is generally available over the internet or on usb drives.

 

If you don't need 10-bit/30-bit color, a consumer grade gpu offers better performance at a lower cost than a Quadro gpu.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor  ($789.00 @ Austin Computers) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 SE-AM4 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  ($120.00 @ Skycomp Technology) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X570 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($469.00 @ PC Byte) 
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($255.00 @ IJK) 
Storage: ADATA - XPG SX6000 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($189.00 @ Scorptec) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB AORUS Video Card  ($1079.00 @ Umart) 
Case: Corsair - 275Q ATX Mid Tower Case  ($112.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($147.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($217.00 @ Amazon Australia) 
Total: $3377.00
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-07-10 00:49 AEST+1000

 

[maartendc]

2 hours ago, brob said:

Generally I'd suggest the highest clock speed cpu for Photoshop and Illustrator. However the new 3000 Amd cpu have a higher IPC (instructions per clock) than current Intel cpu. As a result they have similar or better performance than Intel counterparts at lower clock speeds. Unfortunately the data is still being developed, so we don't know yet what the performance difference will generally be for applications like Photoshop and Illustrator.

 

Unless you have a specific need for an optical drive, it probably isn't necessary. Software including Windows is generally available over the internet or on usb drives.

 

If you don't need 10-bit/30-bit color, a consumer grade gpu offers better performance at a lower cost than a Quadro gpu.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor  ($789.00 @ Austin Computers) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 SE-AM4 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  ($120.00 @ Skycomp Technology) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X570 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($469.00 @ PC Byte) 
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($255.00 @ IJK) 
Storage: ADATA - XPG SX6000 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($189.00 @ Scorptec) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB AORUS Video Card  ($1079.00 @ Umart) 
Case: Corsair - 275Q ATX Mid Tower Case  ($112.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($147.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($217.00 @ Amazon Australia) 
Total: $3377.00
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-07-10 00:49 AEST+1000

 

While I generally agree with your advice, I don't know why you are recommending a X570 motherboard, as a B450 will do just fine and the only omission is Pcie-4.0

 

That noctua is a good cooler, but might be overkill if not OC'ing. And he seems to prefer a liquid cooler.

[brob]

35 minutes ago, maartendc said:

While I generally agree with your advice, I don't know why you are recommending a X570 motherboard, as a B450 will do just fine and the only omission is Pcie-4.0

 

That noctua is a good cooler, but might be overkill if not OC'ing. And he seems to prefer a liquid cooler.

My motherboard and cooling choices were predicated on this being a commercial build.

 

The cooler because it will provide for lower operating temperatures and thus quieter operation and extended cpu lifetime.

 

The motherboard partly because it will not need a BIOS update before use. (While that could be the case with B450, it is not a certainty.) There are also architectural differences that improve performance using an X570 motherboard. For example, the cpu to chipset link is PCIe 4.0 rather than 3.0. While upgrades of this sort of system are not common, should the workstation require memory or storage upgrades X570 offers higher performance choices.

[maartendc]

2 hours ago, brob said:

My motherboard and cooling choices were predicated on this being a commercial build.

 

The cooler because it will provide for lower operating temperatures and thus quieter operation and extended cpu lifetime.

 

The motherboard partly because it will not need a BIOS update before use. (While that could be the case with B450, it is not a certainty.) There are also architectural differences that improve performance using an X570 motherboard. For example, the cpu to chipset link is PCIe 4.0 rather than 3.0. While upgrades of this sort of system are not common, should the workstation require memory or storage upgrades X570 offers higher performance choices.

I dont really know what you mean by 'commercial build' but:

 

- the liquid cooler will surely keep the system cool, if not cooler than the noctua. Also surely a liquid cooler is just as quiet.

 

- the Pci-e 4.0 support only matters for pci-e 4.0 storage devices, which are not even out yet. You can of course put a pci-e 4.0 ssd in the future, but for this type of workload, is not necessary. Only 4k video editing or something makes full use of that fast storage.

 

- the CPU will perform IDENTICAL on a B450 motherboard.

 

- the recommended max memory speed for ryzen 3000 is 3600mhz, because of compatibility of that speed with the underlying infinity fabric in the cpu. B450 supports that speed, so not sure which memmory would require x570.

 

You seem to offer advice without with blanket statements that dont really hold up if you look into it.

[brob]

2 hours ago, maartendc said:

- the liquid cooler will surely keep the system cool, if not cooler than the noctua. Also surely a liquid cooler is just as quiet.

 

No, the NH-D15 SE-AM4 is a much superior cooler to an H60.Since the Noctua has a significantly larger cooling surface area it can dissipate much more efficiently than the H60. So, to keep the cpu at the same temperature the H60 has to run its fan at much higher rpm making it louder. Or, if the fan is run at lower rpm, the cpu will run hotter.

 

3 hours ago, maartendc said:

the CPU will perform IDENTICAL on a B450 motherboard.

 

This is one of those statements that sounds true but is misleading. The link between cpu and chipset affects system performance.But that is not the only thing that makes the X570 chipset a better choice for this build in my opinion. 

 

3 hours ago, maartendc said:

the recommended max memory speed for ryzen . . .

 

The X570 motherboard I suggested supports up to 128GB of memory. My wording could have perhaps been a little clearer with respect to memory.

 

 

We obviously disagree about the optimal choice of motherboard and cooler for this 3900X build. There seems little point in pursuing the matter.

[maartendc]

11 hours ago, brob said:

This is one of those statements that sounds true but is misleading. The link between cpu and chipset affects system performance.But that is not the only thing that makes the X570 chipset a better choice for this build in my opinion.  

I believe this is contrary to what AMD themselves have said. AMD has stated that the only functional difference between the new chipset and the older ones is the PCI-e 4.0 for storage and graphics cards. Explicitly stating that no additional CPU performance can be found. If by "system performance" you mean the connection speed between devices plugged into the PCI-e 4.0 slot and the CPU, then yes, you are correct. But for everything else, there is no functional measurable difference in CPU speed, memory speed, etc. etc. (not even GPU, as the current available GPU's don't even saturate the Pci-e 3.0 slots).

 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-ryzen-3000-cpus-x570-x470-b450-motherboard-performance

 

11 hours ago, brob said:

We obviously disagree about the optimal choice of motherboard and cooler for this 3900X build. There seems little point in pursuing the matter.

Thank you for the respectful discussion.

 

I do think it is a matter of personal preference at some point. There is nothing wrong with getting the latest chipset, it does support newer technologies. Just depends on how important that is to you at the price. Similar for the cooler: mostly personal preference. I personally prefer air coolers as well for durability and simplicity, but some people prefer liquid, nothing wrong with it.

 

 

[celerystruct]

20 hours ago, maartendc said:

the liquid cooler will surely keep the system cool, if not cooler than the noctua. Also surely a liquid cooler is just as quiet.

AIOs are only better than Noctua if the radiator is 360mm. Even at 240mm the Noctua performs better and 120mm are pretty much worthless and only ever preferred if you're trying to ship a PC some where far while skimping on the cost for a cooler.

[JReeves]

Awesome - thanks so much for the input.  

 

I'm not necessarily set on liquid cooling - happy to go with the noctua (that's just what was suggested for that system).  

 

Definitely happy with a similarly capable system for quite a few less clams.. 

[mattyp]

fyi your better sticking with the Intel reliability. If your doing alot of video and photo processing for output the quadro is the only way to go, if your doing general work a consumer like rtx is good to. i would, however, switch to the pro range of ssd with a faster read write speed. the rest looks fairly decent. little overkill but still good. especially the cpu value for money and the fact that your memory is 3200 when it's only really effective on gaming not to mention it doesnt even improve the specs that much with that extra hz rate. Finally i see your in aus take a look at channel and get them to build. you will save a bit on money. scorptec, msy, computer alliance, umart are ones that come to mind.

[maartendc]

8 hours ago, mattyp said:

fyi your better sticking with the Intel reliability.

Sorry, but this is just nonsense.

 

An Intel system is not inherently more reliable than an AMD system. The AM4 platform is now in its 3rd generation / chipset iteration, and runs very very reliably.

 

You could even say that the current Intel architectures were not really designed from the ground up to support 8 cores, and the 9900K runs very hot and draws a lot of power, being inherently less stable.

[JReeves]

Based on your advice above, I requested quotes from a few providers.  Of course - they have put their twist on the request - but cost over four quotes varies by 1k. Systems are below.  Any advice as to what would be the better choice / changes etc.

 

System 1

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12 Core Socket AM4 3.8GHz CPU Processor + Wraith Prism

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 Multi Socket CPU Cooler

Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 AORUS PRO WIFI AM4 ATX Motherboard

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz

Storage: Intel 660p 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 3D2 SSD SSDPEKNW010T8X1

Video Card: Sapphire AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT 8GB Video Card

Case: Corsair Carbide 275Q Mid-Tower Quiet ATX Gaming Case - Black

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750W 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply

Operating System: Windows 10 Professional 64-bit OEM DVD

Total incl assembly and shipping: 3,118.92

 

System 2

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X (Base: 3.80GHz)

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 AM4 Special Edition CPU Cooler

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X570 Aorus Pro WiFi MB, X570,

Memory: G.Skill Fortis 32GB (2x16GB) PC4-19200 (2400MHz) DDR4, 15-15-15-39,

Storage: ADATA 1TB SSD, XPG SX6000 Pro, NVMe PCIe M.2 2280

Video Card: Gigabyte AORUS GeForce RTX 2080

Case: Corsair Carbide 275Q Mid Tower Black ATX Case

Power Supply: Corsair 650W RM650x (2018) Gold Power Supply, 80 PLUS Gold

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro

Total incl assembly and shipping: 3,537

 

System 3

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X (Base: 3.80GHz)

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 AM4 Special Edition CPU Cooler

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X570 Aorus Pro WiFi MB, X570,

Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (2x16GB), PC4-25600 (3200MHz)

Storage: Corsair 1TB SSD, MP600, M.2 NVMe PCIe Gen4

Video Card: ASUS Radeon VII (Base: 1400MHz, Boost: 1750MHz), 16GB

Case: Corsair Carbide 275Q Mid Tower Black ATX Case

Power Supply: Corsair 650W RM650x (2018) Gold Power Supply, 80 PLUS Gold

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro

Total incl assembly and shipping: 3,961

 

System 4

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X (Base: 3.80GHz)

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 AM4 Special Edition CPU Cooler

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X570 Aorus Pro WiFi MB, X570,

Memory: G.Skill 3200Mhz Ripjaws V RAM PN F4-3200C16S-16GVK (2x16GB)

Storage: 1TB Samsung 970 Evo PLUS M.2 PCIe SSD PN MZ-V7S1T0BW

Video Card: Gigabyte RTX2080 8GB AORUS XTREME

Case: Corsair ATX Obsidian 500D Tempered Glass Case Black

Power Supply: 750 Watt Corsair RM750x 80 Plus Gold

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro

Total incl assembly and shipping: 4,124

 

 

[brob]

#1 is fairly good. I wonder at delivering a Windows license on optical media when there is no optical drive in the build. The psu has a bit more capacity than needed and several reviewers have expressed concerns about G3 power protections. This build has the lowest performing gpu

 

#2 memory is far too slow for optimal performance. DDR4-3200 CL16 would be much more appropriate. Along with #4 this build has the highest performing gpu of these builds.

 

#3 has the best performing storage and a decent gpu. In a 275Q case the memory modules are too tall for a dual channel configuration using the NH-D15 cpu cooler with the outer fan mounted in its usual position.

 

#4 Similar to #3, but trades storage performance for gpu performance. As with #3, the memory modules are too tall for use with the NH-D15. Nice case with a USB-C front port. The psu is a bit higher capacity than required, although I've often seen the 750W model of RMx being sold around the same price as the 650W model.

[JReeves]

4 minutes ago, brob said:

#1 is fairly good. I wonder at delivering a Windows license on optical media when there is no optical drive in the build. The psu has a bit more capacity than needed and several reviewers have expressed concerns about G3 power protections. This build has the lowest performing gpu

 

#2 memory is far too slow for optimal performance. DDR4-3200 CL16 would be much more appropriate. Along with #4 this build has the highest performing gpu of these builds.

 

#3 has the best performing storage and a decent gpu. In a 275Q case the memory modules are too tall for a dual channel configuration using the NH-D15 cpu cooler with the outer fan mounted in its usual position.

 

#4 Similar to #3, but trades storage performance for gpu performance. As with #3, the memory modules are too tall for use with the NH-D15. Nice case with a USB-C front port. The psu is a bit higher capacity than required, although I've often seen the 750W model of RMx being sold around the same price as the 650W model.

I have an external DVD drive anyway - so not really an issue.  Would it be worthwhile switching the PSU & GPU in system 1 for one of the others?

[brob]

13 minutes ago, JReeves said:

I have an external DVD drive anyway - so not really an issue.  Would it be worthwhile switching the PSU & GPU in system 1 for one of the others?

Probably not. Although it wouldn't hurt to inquire about the cost of doing so.