Price or Games?

[JustChilliing]

A friend of mine said exclusives are more important than the price.

 

I disagree - those who aren’t independent, or those who are in anyway financially constrained and want the latest and greatest will almost always go for the cheaper option.

 

Opinions?

[Mira Yurizaki]

If you are financially constrained, then chances are you can only have one system or the other. In that case, exclusives will heavily weigh in which platform you go with.

[Ertman]

I agree with the above and in most cases it holds true, however, there are times where price is more important.

 

There are many console gamers that solely play games that aren’t exclusives, think some of the sports titles and only occasionally play other titles.

 

There are also parents/grand parents that might pick up a console for their kids and they might just get the cheaper one.

[Stefan Payne]

On 5/10/2019 at 10:35 PM, JustChilliing said:

A friend of mine said exclusives are more important than the price.

 

I disagree - those who aren’t independent, or those who are in anyway financially constrained and want the latest and greatest will almost always go for the cheaper option.

 

Opinions?

Your Friend is right.

What's the point of having a Console where you have the same amount of Games than on PC. That's pointless and you're better off with an old PC and put a GPU inside.

 

And before someone comes: Games are NOT necessarily cheaper on PC!

For example there was a Sale of some Koei Tecmo Games and Tales of Series (Bandai namco).

The Spirits of Senada was sold for 29,99€ on Steam - 17,something on PS4. 

Same with Tales of Vesperia Definitive Edition. Though not as extreme. 19,99€ on PS4 and 27€ on Steam.

 

That said: the Xbox doesn't have much in favor of them. The only reason to get it is because someone you know and want to play with also has it.

[EldritchMoose]

I think there are more factors than just exclusives and price. Personally, the feeling of the controller in my hands had been a deciding factor in the past, as well as the potential for backwards compatibility with games that I already own.

 

I'd say that a console's price is likely to play a very small role for me personally since I would class it as a big incidental purchase regardless of the price point

[Majinhoju]

I don't have lot of free time to game these day so I factor that big time into what I want to pay for games.  Unless the game is an absolute must have, I'm not paying full price for it.  Before I make a purchase, I ask myself what will the price be when I finally get around to playing this?  I've bought a few games full price then seen them priced half of what I paid when I finally got around to playing them.

[Stefan Payne]

On 5/28/2019 at 7:25 AM, EldritchMoose said:

I think there are more factors than just exclusives and price.

Not really...

Quote

Personally, the feeling of the controller in my hands had been a deciding factor in the past

Subjectivity.

But this generation both controllers are fine and you like what you're used to more.

If you forget about it and use one controller for a while, you see that both are good controllers. 

And I have both, XBox One and Playstation 4, both in the Premium edition.

As well as XBox 360 and PS3. Last gen the PS3 Controller wasn't great and using the same controller for another ~7 Years, after its original introduction in around 1996 or so wasn't the best idea...

 

BUT: My Xbox One controller just broke. the Trigger Button design is just stupid/rather fragile...

And a rechargable battery cost extra...

Quote

as well as the potential for backwards compatibility with games that I already own.

...and the need for credit cards/Paypal in the M$ account, inability to pay for the old games with the XBox wallet...

Wich means you need an XBox 360 anyway. So not really that much of an advantage.

 

If you're talking about PS4 Games: Cerny not only talked about compatibility but also demonstrated Loading Times of for example Spider-Man.

So those you can also play.

As for the "Xbox Two": there are rumors that it might eventually come without an optical drive or that there is a least one version without Optical drive. So digital Download only...

Quote

I'd say that a console's price is likely to play a very small role for me personally since I would class it as a big incidental purchase regardless of the price point

Yeah but how about playing free to play Games such as Dautnless (maybe also Fortnite) without the need for the Premium Subscription...

Someone asked me to play Dauntless and guess what: It needs Gold on XBox.

It doesn't on Playstation by the way.

[Stefan Payne]

On 5/10/2019 at 10:35 PM, JustChilliing said:

Opinions?

Think about this for example:

You don't have that on XBox...

 

 

And I had the shoulder button Part of my older XBox One Controller break....

Chinese sell those Triggers in a 10 pack for 5€ on certain places...

 

That design is just awful and prone to failure because both triggers are one piece and where my trigger broke looks like a point of stress that is worked every time you push the button...

 

Here the Part on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/UNAKIM-Black-Replacement-Trigger-Microsoft-Controller/dp/B076Z78357

 

You see what I meant. And can guess where it broke...

 

[EldritchMoose]

On 5/29/2019 at 10:03 AM, Stefan Payne said:

Not really...

Interesting start to a post where you go on to list more reasons beyond just exclusives and console price, but ok.

Quote

Subjectivity.

Well duh, the decision to buy one or more gaming devices is inherently subjective. Gaming is a hobby, not a necessity and as such it will vary from person to person to decide how much disposable income and time may be invested in said hobby.

 

I have owned one or more consoles for every generation up until the Wii, which is the last time I bought a console. After that, I started gaming on my PC more (so interest in console gaming waned) and I bought a house and got married within the same year (tying up my disposable income).

Quote

But this generation both controllers are fine and you like what you're used to more.

If you forget about it and use one controller for a while, you see that both are good controllers. 

And I have both, XBox One and Playstation 4, both in the Premium edition.

As well as XBox 360 and PS3. Last gen the PS3 Controller wasn't great and using the same controller for another ~7 Years, after its original introduction in around 1996 or so wasn't the best idea...

 

BUT: My Xbox One controller just broke. the Trigger Button design is just stupid/rather fragile...And a rechargable battery cost extra...

See, this is something that might tip the balance away from the XBOX come the final decision. If I want to play a game, I don't want any time wasted fixing controllers or waiting for replacement parts. Either way, I have big hands, so the Playstation controllers have traditionally been less comfortable for me. In addition, I like the ability to hook the controller up to my PC, which would skew the decision towards PS4 or Xbox rather than the Switch.

Quote

...and the need for credit cards/Paypal in the M$ account, inability to pay for the old games with the XBox wallet...

Wich means you need an XBox 360 anyway. So not really that much of an advantage.

 

If you're talking about PS4 Games: Cerny not only talked about compatibility but also demonstrated Loading Times of for example Spider-Man.So those you can also play.

Both of which I have had for over 15 years now, therefore will not be a make-or-break factor in my buying one or the other. Again, this would be a part of the disposable income I would set aside for my hobby.

 

Everything I can find about backwards compatibility suggests that it is much easier on Xbox than it is on PS4. That said, I listed it as a hypothetical that may or may not be a factor for someone choosing to buy since part of the reason I bought a Wii back in the day had everything to do with the fact that it would still play all my Gamecube games as well as giving me access to a ROM library that had games I was never before able to buy due to Nintendo's...interesting strategy regarding export policies. I live in Europe, so this provided me with a legal way to buy SNES games that I had always wanted to play, but had never been sold here. If I had a substantial Xbox 360 or PS3 library, that would weigh into the decision to buy the successor.

Quote

As for the "Xbox Two": there are rumors that it might eventually come without an optical drive or that there is a least one version without Optical drive. So digital Download only...

Something which may or may not be an issue by the time it gets released. I can't really comment on this idea now as it is still a rumour at this point. Hell, neither the next Xbox or the next Playstation have been announced yet, so it's kind of pointless to start making potential buying decisions for them already.

 

That said, it does raise another factor that may or may not play into the decision to buy one console or the other: how long until support for it goes away? As I type this, two of the 3 current-gen consoles were released in 2013, the other was released in 2017. Sony has said that they aim to support the PS4 for the next 3 years and AFAIK Microsoft has not yet announced anything. Nintendo looks like its console may have the most longevity, but it is also a bit of a wild card if you look at how they dropped the Wii U after 5 years. If I were looking into buying a current-gen console this late into the generation, I'd have to consider either the certainty of 3 years from Sony, the likelihood of lasting support from Nintendo (what with the console being released 4 years after the PS4) or the uncertainty of Microsoft's support.

Quote

Yeah but how about playing free to play Games such as Dautnless (maybe also Fortnite) without the need for the Premium Subscription...

Someone asked me to play Dauntless and guess what: It needs Gold on XBox.

It doesn't on Playstation by the way.

Honestly, in my opinion there is no longer such a thing as "free to play games". The ones that don't require a cost up front will almost invariably devolve into trying to convince me to either pay microtransactions, or watch ads. Besides, neither of those two games appeal to me, so I couldn't care less whether or not I'd need an Xbox gold subscription to play them. If anything, Fortnite has shown that Xbox may be the more attractive option anyway when you consider the cross-platform support it got, whereas Sony's contribution in that field led to accounts being corrupted.

 

All in all, my point was that there are more factors that influence the decision to buy one or more consoles. The price point for the console and its exclusive titles are important, but for me personally, the cost is one of the least important factors these days because I have enough disposable income to justify buying any one console at the drop of a hat, and enough patience to completely nullify that factor by saving up for a month or two. What matters more is whether or not it allows me to play the games that I want to play (which aren't necessarily exclusives) and whether or not it adds to my comfort and quality of life. I am also old enough that I don't give a flying crap about which console is "better".

[Stefan Payne]

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

Interesting start to a post where you go on to list more reasons beyond just exclusives and console price, but ok.

And what might that be?
For the other Games I can use a PC, wich has the biggest overlap of games anyway.

For example Dragon Quest 11. You can play that on PC, Playstation 4, Nintendo Switch and there is a 3DS Version as well (wich is obviously completely different).

 

Why should I buy console and waste money on it, to play Games I can play on PC anyway?! Makes little sense...

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

Well duh, the decision to buy one or more gaming devices is inherently subjective. Gaming is a hobby, not a necessity and as such it will vary from person to person to decide how much disposable income and time may be invested in said hobby.

Not an argument...

 

The Controller of the XBox One is not that innovative, got Trigger Vibrators and that's it. No Motion Controls (since PS3), doesn't come with a rechargable Battery. Just a slightly reworked XBox 360 Controller, wich got the same 4 shoulder Buttons, 2 Analogue Sticks, 4 normal Buttons and a D-Pad that was introduced almost 25 Years ago with the Dual Shock. Just the Analogue Triggers that Nintendo doesn't use no more but has introduced with the Gamecube is the only feature that better than the Dual Shock Controller...

 

And there is the Shoulder Button issue. 

The shoulder buttons is one Part.

The shoulder Buttons is ONE Part. Not two as it should be.

 

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

In addition, I like the ability to hook the controller up to my PC, which would skew the decision towards PS4 or Xbox rather than the Switch.

Switch PRO Controller is supported by Steam by the way. All you need is Bluetooth...

Though I don't get the Hype about that Controller. Buttons are kinda mushy. You can argue about the Digital Triggers but otherwise its fine.

 

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

Everything I can find about backwards compatibility suggests that it is much easier on Xbox than it is on PS4.

I don't need to look for it, I can show you this:

 

So you need an XBox 360 anyway, to buy stuff...

 

And the most interesting stuff such as Nier isn't supported anyway (as well as some others, see below)

And most of the Backwards Compatible Games are on PC as well.

 

They increase it from time to time but if you never owned a 360, its a moot argument as you can get most of the Games on PC anyway.

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

If I had a substantial Xbox 360 or PS3 library, that would weigh into the decision to buy the successor.

I've gotten an XBox 360 back in 2010. That was the Console I went with for some reasons and it was not bad...

I really hate the reworked, flat Dashboard and want the one back (or the one after that), that came with the Console...

That said, no it shouldn't influence the decision at all.

Because most XBox 360 Games are not compatible with the One, especially the more interesting ones such as NIER, Magnacarta 2, Tales of Vesperia (OK, on PC), Star Ocean the Last Hope (also on PC), Eternal Sonata...

Resonance of Fate, Final Fantasy 13 are also on PC...

 

PS3 compatibility wasn't viable on PS4 (due to the Weird shit So-nie did with the CPU and the SPEs) but you can kinda somewhat use the PS4 Controller on the PS3...

 

Out of my 33 Games or so, only 5 were compatible with the One and some of them were LEGO Games...

 

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

Something which may or may not be an issue by the time it gets released. I can't really comment on this idea now as it is still a rumour at this point. Hell, neither the next Xbox or the next Playstation have been announced yet, so it's kind of pointless to start making potential buying decisions for them already.

The Playstation 5 has been announced and it is (mostly) backwards compatible.

Mostly because there are Games that crash on Boost Mode for whatever reasons (2013 Tomb Raider the sc. But the later PS4 PRO Games should be fine.

 

There are even videos of a demonstration of Spider Man on the PS5 floating around...

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

If I were looking into buying a current-gen console this late into the generation, I'd have to consider either the certainty of 3 years from Sony, the likelihood of lasting support from Nintendo (what with the console being released 4 years after the PS4) or the uncertainty of Microsoft's support.

Just get the ones that has the most games that aren't on PC, that I can't play anywhere else.

That's either the PS4 or the Nintendo Switch. Though the Switch is a bit useless for Owners of a WiiU...

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

Honestly, in my opinion there is no longer such a thing as "free to play games". The ones that don't require a cost up front will almost invariably devolve into trying to convince me to either pay microtransactions, or watch ads.

True but you don't have to pay for Playstation Plus for Free To Play Games on Playstation. Also Final Fantasy XIV, but that one needs a subscription anyway.

You have to get Gold for ALL Online Games on XBox!

 

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

Besides, neither of those two games appeal to me, so I couldn't care less whether or not I'd need an Xbox gold subscription to play them. If anything, Fortnite has shown that Xbox may be the more attractive option anyway when you consider the cross-platform support it got, whereas Sony's contribution in that field led to accounts being corrupted.

Sony backpeddeled on that and:

a) always allowed Crossplay between PC and Console

b) since recently allowes it for all others as well. There are even Games that support that.

 

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

All in all, my point was that there are more factors that influence the decision to buy one or more consoles.

A console is a box that plays games.

What's inside the box just doesn't matter at all. Its just a "black box"
So that only leaves the Games you can play...

 

And if you want to look into other stufff, look into HDMI CEC or Bluetooth. Both not supported by the XBox One.

 

21 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

What matters more is whether or not it allows me to play the games that I want to play (which aren't necessarily exclusives) and whether or not it adds to my comfort and quality of life.

The XBox One is a shitty, closed down Windows PC with all the disadvantages of both worlds.

Long boot times of a Windows PC (on a slow HDD, ~30s or more), closedness of a Console.

 

If there was Steam on the XBox, it would make some sense. The way it is right now it doesn't.

For the Comfort you can also build yourself a mediocre PC with Windows and use Steam in Fullscreen Mode on it. That has a better UI than the XBox one as well.

 

 

And yes, I have an XBox One as well.

The 360 was fine and a nice console. But the One is a total desaster.

While with Sony, the PS3 was a desaster and the PS4 is not too bad.

 

Something that's kinda useless but interesting:

[Ertman]

On 6/1/2019 at 2:59 AM, Stefan Payne said:

 

The XBox One is a shitty, closed down Windows PC with all the disadvantages of both worlds.

Long boot times of a Windows PC (on a slow HDD, ~30s or more), closedness of a Console.

 

 

I like how 30 seconds is now long boot times.... lol

 

seems like you mention closeness a lot too, just an observation regarding repetition, not a criticism. It is odd given that its a console.

[Majinhoju]

Now that this thread has derailed into bash the Xbox One thread..

Despite mostly playing on PC, I've still given my Xbox One a lot more playtime than my ps4 in the time I've had both.  I haven't played my consoles all that much lately but maybe I'll play some Xbox One tonight.  Maybe give it a big ol' hug.

 

I don't know,  I guess I've enjoyed having a Xbox One.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, Ertman said:

I like how 30 seconds is now long boot times.... lol

Yes, when other Consoles such as the XBox 360 boot up immediately, it is a long time.

2 hours ago, Ertman said:

seems like you mention closeness a lot too, just an observation regarding repetition, not a criticism. It is odd given that its a console.

No, I mention that its a closed off version of Windows with the disadvantages of both sides.

From a Console I expect it to start up quickly.

Meaning I push the button and less than 10s later I can start the Game.

That's how it was with the XBox 360.

 

 

1 hour ago, Majinhoju said:

Now that this thread has derailed into bash the Xbox One thread..

Remember how YOU made fun of the fact that you can't buy 360 games on the One with the money in my Microsoft Account??

Such Comments would never make someone very unhappy with the XBox, you know...

 

1 hour ago, Majinhoju said:

Despite mostly playing on PC, I've still given my Xbox One a lot more playtime than my ps4 in the time I've had both. 

Yeah, I've never seen you criticize the XBox One yet...

And you tend to put the XBox in a way too positive light...

The Backwards Compatibility thing for example. That is for someone that doesn't come from an XBox 360 not that important.

And even if you have an XBox 360 Libary, many games, especially the more interesting ones, see above, don't run on the One anyway...

 

And remember that I was the one who bought the XBox 360 for the last generation. And I still say that that might have been the better choice.

 

1 hour ago, Majinhoju said:

I haven't played my consoles all that much lately but maybe I'll play some Xbox One tonight.  Maybe give it a big ol' hug.

I don't know,  I guess I've enjoyed having a Xbox One.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, and??

Try playing Dauntless, Tera or other F2P Games without Gold...

Good luck with that...

[Majinhoju]

47 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Remember how YOU made fun of the fact that you can't buy 360 games on the One with the money in my Microsoft Account??

Such Comments would never make someone very unhappy with the XBox, you know...

I actually never did such a thing.  I simply pointed out the credit card payment issue wouldn't likely be such a big issue to most people.  I've had my cc tied to my account since the first xbox days.  Big issue to you, not to everyone, wasn't making fun of you for it.  Not sure why you interpreted it that way.   Do you take every opposing opinion personally?  And If I'm the reason you hate your Xbox so much, well that goes beyond my scope of expertise...

 

47 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yeah, I've never seen you criticize the XBox One yet...

And you tend to put the XBox in a way too positive light...

The Backwards Compatibility thing for example. That is for someone that doesn't come from an XBox 360 not that important.

And even if you have an XBox 360 Libary, many games, especially the more interesting ones, see above, don't run on the One anyway...

I've pointed out the lack of exclusives and limited backwards compatibility library multiple times.  I'm well aware of the limitations.

 

47 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yeah, and??

Try playing Dauntless, Tera or other F2P Games without Gold...

Good luck with that...

That's fine. I'm still enjoying my Xbox.  

[Stefan Payne]

7 hours ago, Majinhoju said:

I actually never did such a thing.  I simply pointed out the credit card payment issue wouldn't likely be such a big issue to most people.

I've had my cc tied to my account since the first xbox days.  Big issue to you, not to everyone, wasn't making fun of you for it.  Not sure why you interpreted it that way.   

Exactly...

wich is what I said about the Issue, that you need Payment Options in the Account. 

It even says so in the Screenshot I post about that...

What was the point of you mentioning it?? Especially since it can be taken as mocking/making fun of the other side for not having a credit card (or not wanting it in that account)...

 

And you were also offending many people in Europe who do not have a Credit card (or can't afford it).

There are still some Countrys where Credit Cards are very uncommon even to this day. Germany is one of them...

7 hours ago, Majinhoju said:

I'm still enjoying my Xbox. 

Why did you say that?! That has nothing to do with what I said...

 

Why is it a problem for you that I said that you can't play any online game without XBox Live Gold??

 

And yes, I'm not happy with what Sony is doing right now. And wish some people would meet up in Japan and protest in front of the Sony HQ there against that shit. So what? Its just a god damn black box that allows me to play Games. And if it doesn't increase the amount of Games I can play on there, its pretty useless...

14 hours ago, Ertman said:

I like how 30 seconds is now long boot times.... lol

Its not 30s, I measured it. Its 30s more than the Competition....

The XBox One X needs 65 Seconds to boot up from Pressing the Button to the Desktop.

 

And no, the Standby Mode is NOT an option because it consumes rediculous amounts of power. I measured something up to 20W or so, last time I tried it.

 

30s is more what a normal PC these days take to boot up (or a Playstation 4 PRO)....

 

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

price isnt that high on exclusive if you get 2nd hand games after the trend cools down.i.e.$10~15 for 1 game.

however when it gets old, you will switch to another platform and never look back.

I havent touched my ps3 for years and went on testing ps3 emu from time to time

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

 however when it gets old, you will switch to another platform and never look back.

I havent touched my ps3 for years and went on testing ps3 emu from time to time

Yeah, totally agree.

 

Playing older Console Games isn't easy in some cases because for example the Controls are weird by todays standard (see Tank Controls Resident Evil or the Default Controls in the Original Killzone for example) and the Graphics is not good. Sometimes the older games don't have VSYNC enabled and you have awful tearing on the screen (especially PS3)....

 

Sadly Drakengard 3 isn't available on PS4...

Its an awesome game, but doesn't run that well on the PS3.

 

 

[Majinhoju]

Oh blimey..

OK, the credit card thing.  I thought it was worth mentioning that not everyone shares the same opinion on that.  In my neck of the woods, most of us have a credit card and use it to subscribe to things.  When telling people reasons to avoid the Xbox, while it's certainly useful to know that you need a registered method of payment, it's not going to sway everyone against buying it.

 

Faults of the system:  Currently lacks some good exclusives and has a limited backwards compatibility library.  I already mentioned that.  You obviously see more faults, but those are the only faults that matter to me.  There's faults in all the systems, but I'm a happy owner of all current consoles.

 

Look, I apologize if I've given you a hard time over anything on this forum.  I'll try to be a little nicer.  But you should really try to read over what you post and realize just how you come across (and take note of how many threads have been closed by the mods after you join the discussion).  I enjoy a good debate but you somehow manage to make this thing personal and get offended over differences of opinion.  I'm still baffled that you actually blame for me hating your Xbox, do you realize that how that sounds?

 

Play whatever games you want on whatever platform you choose.  I really don't care.

 

 

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Sadly Drakengard 3 isn't available on PS4...

Its an awesome game, but doesn't run that well on the PS3.

Carvia had serious problem on their budget, the hd remaster shall be very difficult on todays standard.

luckily it runs perfect on ps3 emu already (at 720p only)

[Majinhoju]

On the topic of exclusives and cheap games. Subscribing to game pass got me access to Forza Horizon 4.  It's a lot of fun.  Here's hoping that the Halo MCC for PC is decently priced.

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

Just now, Majinhoju said:

Subscribing to game pass got me access to Forza Horizon 4.

imo, game pass is another scam. I pay for something I want to play, not "random" lucky draw a very old game

[tatte]

7 hours ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

imo, game pass is another scam. I pay for something I want to play, not "random" lucky draw a very old game

Game Pass' big selling point is Microsoft's exclusives that are on it from the day one, and I wouldn't call the rest of the lineup hopelessly horrible either. It's also frequently on sale, for e.g. I'm currently enjoying three months I paid one euro for. You don't have to like it, but it's hardly a scam. The only real downside is that games come and go, but at least you get a discount if you decide to buy a game that's leaving the program (or any other game that's on the program).

[Majinhoju]

It's like Netflix where you get what they offer and some come and go.  But I'm happy with the library so far.  And as mentioned above, day 1 exclusives too.  It isn't just old games.

[EldritchMoose]

On 6/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, Stefan Payne said:

And what might that be?

Well, from the rest of the post I am quoting right now you bring up:

 

- controller design

- (lack of) innovation in controller design

- backwards compatibility issues

- lack of interesting titles that are backwards compatible

- requirement of online subscription to play games that are free on other platforms

- boot times

- it not being a PC

 

That's across ONE post. All of these are factors that may play a part in the decision to buy a certain console or not, outside of JUST the price and exclusive titles, which you insisted were the only reasons.

 

Quote

For the other Games I can use a PC, wich has the biggest overlap of games anyway.

For example Dragon Quest 11. You can play that on PC, Playstation 4, Nintendo Switch and there is a 3DS Version as well (wich is obviously completely different).

 

Why should I buy console and waste money on it, to play Games I can play on PC anyway?! Makes little sense...

Of course it doesn't make sense to you, you've made it painfully obvious that opinions that aren't in alignment with yours don't count. You talk a big game about how offensive it is to Europeans that Microsoft requires you to have a Credit Card (something that is incredibly common for any kind of online subscription and has been for decades, I might add) without taking into account the many people across our continent (I'm European too, and have had a credit card for 15 years now) who do have a credit card as well as the disposable income to own one.

 

It's nice that you have a PC that can play recent games, but for me, up until 5 months ago, my "gaming PC" was my 2010 iMac with all the power of a Radeon HD5670 and a Quad-core i5 processor. Anything newer than Shadow of Mordor was a no-go and don't get me started on the settings. For someone like me, the prospect of buying a console during last year's Black Friday sales was a much more attractive one than forking out 3-4 times as much money on a new PC, had money been the primary motivator.

On 6/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, Stefan Payne said:

Not an argument...

 

The Controller of the XBox One is not that innovative, got Trigger Vibrators and that's it. No Motion Controls (since PS3), doesn't come with a rechargable Battery. Just a slightly reworked XBox 360 Controller, wich got the same 4 shoulder Buttons, 2 Analogue Sticks, 4 normal Buttons and a D-Pad that was introduced almost 25 Years ago with the Dual Shock. Just the Analogue Triggers that Nintendo doesn't use no more but has introduced with the Gamecube is the only feature that better than the Dual Shock Controller...

 

And there is the Shoulder Button issue. 

The shoulder buttons is one Part.

The shoulder Buttons is ONE Part. Not two as it should be.

No, it's not an argument to you, personally. It most certainly is an argument because consoles cost money. Some have to save up for months to even have the money to spare for one console while others buy all of them and play whichever game they like on whichever platform they like. Your own argument regarding the cost of having a credit card also feeds into this. For me that is a trivial matter since I already have a credit card that I use regularly, for you this seems to be a blocking issue since you either don't have the means available to use a credit card, or don't trust the use of a credit card online. Either is a valid reason to not use a credit card even if neither apply to me, therefore they are subjective.

 

Honestly, controller innovation is overrated if you ask me. Especially in recent years, where these innovations were more likely to result in adding unnecessary gimmicks to games rather than adding to the game experience. In fact, outside of Wii Sports and Until Dawn, I'm struggling to come up with motion controls that added more to a game than just using a button press.

 

The Xbox 360 / One controller is fine, if you ask me. There have been very few times when I really needed more than 4 buttons, two triggers, two shoulder buttons, two analogue sticks and a D-pad. I mean, I generally use 4 of my digits to play games, so adding more buttons and/or trackpad / motion commands will only add to the amount of things I need to remember when playing a game. Yes, it's functionally no different from the Dual Shock but if it isn't broke, why the hell would you fix it. Sony's controllers since the Dual Shock have been reworked versions that added a motion sensor and a trackpad and unless the game I'm playing uses either of these functions, it may as well be a Dual Shock. Which is not a bad thing, by the way - it's my second favourite controller of all time after the Gamecube one, which edges it out by virtue of fitting the small shovels I call hands better than the Dual Shock did.

On 6/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, Stefan Payne said:

Switch PRO Controller is supported by Steam by the way. All you need is Bluetooth...

Cool, I don't have Bluetooth in my PC, so for me that wouldn't necessarily change anything. It's nice to know that we're at a point where controllers are all interchangeable between console and PC, though.

On 6/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, Stefan Payne said:

I don't need to look for it, I can show you this:

 

So you need an XBox 360 anyway, to buy stuff...

 

And the most interesting stuff such as Nier isn't supported anyway (as well as some others, see below)

And most of the Backwards Compatible Games are on PC as well.

 

They increase it from time to time but if you never owned a 360, its a moot argument as you can get most of the Games on PC anyway.

Yes, this makes it all completely clear. I finally understand why Xbox backwards compatibility is more difficult than its PS4 counterpart...

</sarcasm>

 

I'm sorry, but what am I paying 65p for, exactly? How does this mean I would also need to have an Xbox 360? Is this a requirement to buy games online on an Xbox One?

 

Also, which games constitute "the most interesting stuff" is entirely subjective. Case-in-point: none of the games you listed really appeal to me. I've played both NieR and Final Fantasy 13, and found both to be too grindy for my tastes, especially nowadays when my gaming time is much less plentiful than it used to be.

 

Hypothetically, if my favourite game on the 360 were among those that was compatible with the One, I'd count that as a reason to buy the One. In the past, this was a reason to buy the Wii as I didn't have the space to have more than two consoles hooked up at any given time back then.

On 6/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, Stefan Payne said:

True but you don't have to pay for Playstation Plus for Free To Play Games on Playstation. Also Final Fantasy XIV, but that one needs a subscription anyway.

You have to get Gold for ALL Online Games on XBox!

Again, I've said this before: The fact that I would require a subscription is not a dealbreaker for me. Not for lack of disposable income, nor out of principle.

On 6/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, Stefan Payne said:

A console is a box that plays games.

What's inside the box just doesn't matter at all. Its just a "black box"
So that only leaves the Games you can play...

Which would be a perfectly good argument for whether or not to buy any console at all. This is a thread about the things that factor into which console you buy. That said, I would indeed buy a console that enables me to play games over a hypothetical one that doesn't.

On 6/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, Stefan Payne said:

The XBox One is a shitty, closed down Windows PC with all the disadvantages of both worlds.

Long boot times of a Windows PC (on a slow HDD, ~30s or more), closedness of a Console.

The XBox  One is an all-in-one computer that is optimized for one specific function, which comes with both advantages and disadvantages. One such advantage being that I can go into a store right now and buy one with a pack-in game for less than €500,-, hook it up to my TV and be done. For that money, I have a machine that I know for a fact, will run the latest games available on the platform at a high resolution and framerate. Hell, even if I would have to fork out the money to buy a 4K TV, I would still be set for less than €900,-

 

For that money, I would be hard-pressed to find a PC with equivalent performance, even if I were to assemble it myself. In fact, you're a long way to spending that kind of money just on a 4K monitor and GPU that can do it justice. Throw in a fast SSD, MoBo that supports Bluetooth (or with a free PCIe slot for a BT adapter), processor and sufficient cooling and you're easily looking at prices upwards of €1.300,- I agree that a PC is more versatile than a console will ever be, but there is a price tag that comes with that versatility.

 

In addition, a PC will consume far more energy per gaming session than even the high-end consoles, which may also be a factor if someone lives in a shared household or has a power consumption limit in their lease. 

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, EldritchMoose said:

Well, from the rest of the post I am quoting right now you bring up:

 

- controller design

- (lack of) innovation in controller design

- backwards compatibility issues

- lack of interesting titles that are backwards compatible

- requirement of online subscription to play games that are free on other platforms

- boot times

- it not being a PC

 

That's across ONE post. All of these are factors that may play a part in the decision to buy a certain console or not, outside of JUST the price and exclusive titles, which you insisted were the only reasons.

Yes, because if I have to deal with long boot times, lack of Controller design and Backward compatibility Issues, then I can also get a PC.

Because that's all the disadvantages of a PC.

 

 

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It's nice that you have a PC that can play recent games, but for me, up until 5 months ago, my "gaming PC" was my 2010 iMac with all the power of a Radeon HD5670 and a Quad-core i5 processor. Anything newer than Shadow of Mordor was a no-go and don't get me started on the settings. For someone like me, the prospect of buying a console during last year's Black Friday sales was a much more attractive one than forking out 3-4 times as much money on a new PC, had money been the primary motivator.

Yes, and?
You could have gotten a PC, as there are a couple of guides for cheap PCs on this site or you could have gotten NOT the XBox and a Playstation 4 or Switch instead.

Its not like there aren't better alternatives to the XBox that make more sense and offer you more games to play.

Super Mario Odyssey is pretty nice as is Octopath Traveller or Horizon Zero Dawn, Marvel's Spider-Man...

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It most certainly is an argument because consoles cost money. Some have to save up for months to even have the money to spare for one console while others buy all of them and play whichever game they like on whichever platform they like.

Yes and thus it makes sense to get the one that offer you the most games that you couldn't play before...

 

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Honestly, controller innovation is overrated if you ask me.

Then we'd still have something like the Gravis Gamepad or similar stuff.

And consoles are the place where you CAN innovate because you force the Controller onto everyone buying this specific console and with that you can add new, interesting features.

 

You can't do that on PC, especially these days...

People probably don't know what a Thrustmaster or CH-Flightstick really was...

And back in the day games that supported those were not as good without it.

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Especially in recent years, where these innovations were more likely to result in adding unnecessary gimmicks to games rather than adding to the game experience. In fact, outside of Wii Sports and Until Dawn, I'm struggling to come up with motion controls that added more to a game than just using a button press.

Infamous Second Son has nice motion controls for example for the Spray Mini Game.

But here we also have the Problem that because M$ doesn't support it, its not in many games...

 

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The Xbox 360 / One controller is fine, if you ask me.

360 Pad has a really awful D-Pad and the One has the Trigger buttons that are one part and, as said, no innovation. 
The only thing M$ Added in ~20 Years since they entered the Console Market were Trigger Vibrators...

 

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There have been very few times when I really needed more than 4 buttons, two triggers, two shoulder buttons, two analogue sticks and a D-pad.

Chicken <-> Egg Problem.

Because M$ doesn't have it, nobody does it or rather you can only do it in Exclusives.

For example use the Touchpad the PS4 has. Its used in Killzone Shadow Fall for example. But also some other Games as well. 

 

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I mean, I generally use 4 of my digits to play games, so adding more buttons and/or trackpad / motion commands will only add to the amount of things I need to remember when playing a game.

LOL, 

That's what was not uncommon gack in the day:

http://isometricland.net/keyboard/keyboard-diagram-star-wars-x-wing.php?sty=15&amp;lay=1&amp;fmt=0

 

Later it went to something like this:

http://isometricland.net/keyboard/keyboard-diagram-star-wars-x-wing-alliance.php?sty=15&amp;lay=1&amp;fmt=0

 

 

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Yes, it's functionally no different from the Dual Shock but if it isn't broke, why the hell would you fix it.

Hey, why not use this and be happy with it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravis_PC_GamePad

 

Or that one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_System

 

Or what about that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_(game_controller)

If it ain't broke, why the hell would you fix it?

Well, because you have the ability and power to use it...

Back in the day you didn't...

Today you are not limited by technology, only by the unwillingness to do it.

 

Because the most advanced Controller was this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U_GamePad

And yes, it was a bit too ambitious but it shows you what can be done. And it isn't even the first console with a Display...

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Sony's controllers since the Dual Shock have been reworked versions that added a motion sensor and a trackpad

Nope, the Dual Shock 4 is completely new, redesigned.

And also features something the XBox has not but the Switch does:

A Screenshot Button.

 

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Cool, I don't have Bluetooth in my PC, so for me that wouldn't necessarily change anything. It's nice to know that we're at a point where controllers are all interchangeable between console and PC, though.

Then use the Cable that hte Controller came with, also works.

Though only in Steam Games.

The PS4 Controller works in more games out of the Box and there are even a couple of XInput Wrapper as well.

 

Bluetooth is used in the 2nd Revision (=ugly) XBox One Controller without shiny on top but also Dual Shock 4, Switch, Wii, WiiU

 

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I'm sorry, but what am I paying 65p for, exactly? How does this mean I would also need to have an Xbox 360? Is this a requirement to buy games online on an Xbox One?

That was one of the DLC for Blue Dragon and you need the 360 to use the Money in your M$ Account, for example because you got a Gift Card...

 

Quote

Also, which games constitute "the most interesting stuff" is entirely subjective. Case-in-point: none of the games you listed really appeal to me.

Yeah, the usual argument from the XBox users...

Quote

Hypothetically, if my favourite game on the 360 were among those that was compatible with the One, I'd count that as a reason to buy the One.

Oh yeah, chosing one old Game that you can play on a 60€ device that runs the same on the normal One S makes more sense than chosing a different console that would allow to play a couple more games that you can't play anywhere else...

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Again, I've said this before: The fact that I would require a subscription is not a dealbreaker for me.

...of course not...

Especially if you don't have to pay for it on other Plattforms...

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The XBox  One is an all-in-one computer that is optimized for one specific function, which comes with both advantages and disadvantages. One such advantage being that I can go into a store right now and buy one with a pack-in game for less than €500,-, hook it up to my TV and be done.

And what makes it better than Switch or Playstation 4??
Oh wait, the Price is lower used because nobody wants it. That's why I got my XBox One X: Nobody wanted it and it wasn't sold after a Month or so...

(and also hardly used, HDD had only 200h on it)

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For that money, I have a machine that I know for a fact, will run the latest games available on the platform at a high resolution and framerate. Hell, even if I would have to fork out the money to buy a 4K TV, I would still be set for less than €900,-

And how is that an Argument for the XBox and agains the other two?

 

Quote

For that money, I would be hard-pressed to find a PC with equivalent performance, even if I were to assemble it myself.

naa, if you know where or what to look for, its not that hard.

You can do something decent for ~500€ for example:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD - Ryzen 3 2200G 3.5 GHz Quad-Core Processor	€84.89 @ Amazon Deutschland
Motherboard	MSI - B450M GAMING PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard	€77.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory	Corsair - Vengeance LPX 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory	€52.73 @ Mindfactory
Storage	Crucial - MX500 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive	€66.75 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card	Sapphire - Radeon RX 570 8 GB PULSE Video Card	€147.84 @ Mindfactory
Case	Cooler Master - MasterBox Q300 MicroATX Mini Tower Case	€39.90 @ Caseking
Power Supply	be quiet! - System Power 9 500 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply	€50.94 @ Amazon Deutschland
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	€521.04
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-06-05 12:42 CEST+0200

 

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In fact, you're a long way to spending that kind of money just on a 4K monitor and GPU that can do it justice.

That's just not true.

The GPU inside the PS4 PRO and XBox One X is comparable to the RX580, wich is around 150€ with 4GiB, 8GiB at 170€

Or how about a VEGA for 239€ (Mindfactory has the Gigabyte V56 for that right now)

 

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Throw in a fast SSD, MoBo that supports Bluetooth (or with a free PCIe slot for a BT adapter), processor and sufficient cooling and you're easily looking at prices upwards of €1.300,- I agree that a PC is more versatile than a console will ever be, but there is a price tag that comes with that versatility.

Öhm, no, absolutely NOT! 
I don't get where you got your prices but that above is roughly comparable to the One X and the One S is getting downgraded in the direction of 720p or 900p with many newer games.

A bluetooth Dongle is thrown at you. You really should have looked up the price of a USB BT 4.0 Dongle...

Because they are at around 7€ or so:

https://geizhals.de/digitus-dn-30210-1-a898046.html?hloc=de#offerlist

 

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In addition, a PC will consume far more energy per gaming session than even the high-end consoles, which may also be a factor if someone lives in a shared household or has a power consumption limit in their lease. 

that is also NOT TRUE!

If you build your PC with that in mind and chose components accordingly, the difference between the high end Consoles and PC is negligable.

 

I've seen my One X go over 200W for example in Gears of War 4.

PS4 is a bit lower at around 160-170W

 

But if you chose your settings to be comparable to the Consoles, the PC won't consume more...

Remember that Games are usually at Medium with a bit of High on Consoles.

and only 30fps...

So I made a Test with my V64, Ryzen 1700X with similar settings to Consoles:
Preset Medium, 1080p, fps Limited to 30fps, Division 2.

 

And look where I am (Inside the White House):

135W...

 

Because the Used Pumas aren't that great in the Consoles because they are pushed to the Limit. A Ryzen CPU at similar Clockrates is far more efficient than those old things.

Thing is that nobody plays with 30fps on PC!

And even with 60fps se, I'm at under 180W with those Components mentioned above (that is without undervolting...)

So I'm saying that my PC consumes at 60fps about the amount of Power that a Console would at 30fps.