Does your ISP limit connected devices?

[Sooneung]

Does your ISP limit the devices connected to the internet? I live in SOUTH Korea, and it's kind of a norm for the isp to block the internet if too many devices are connected simultaneously. They usually allow upto 2-3, but starts to block the device starting from the 3rd or 4th device. This doesn't botter me very much since this usually happens on pc. And even if you are on a pc they only blocks http protocols so you can still surf the web with https protocol or use other protocols to communicate.

I think they are intercepting the plain http connection, monitor the mac or user agent or something to distinguish the users and block if they reach certain point. I'm not very angry about them because the internet subscribtions here are sooooo cheap (you can get 10gbe lane for 80bucks a month if you have access to ftth lane or 27 bucks for full gigabit internet. Yes these both are consumer subscribtions) but still annoyed a bit.

Do you have some kind of limitations from your isp?

[Sooneung]

Just now, Sooneung said:

Does your ISP limit the devices connected to the internet? I live in SOUTH Korea, and it's kind of a norm for the isp to block the internet if too many devices are connected simultaneously. They usually allow upto 2-3, but starts to block the device starting from the 3rd or 4th device. This doesn't botter me very much since this usually happens on pc. And even if you are on a pc they only blocks http protocols so you can still surf the web with https protocol or use other protocols to communicate.

I think they are intercepting the plain http connection, monitor the mac or user agent or something to distinguish the users and block if they reach certain point. I'm not very angry about them because the internet subscribtions here are sooooo cheap (you can get 10gbe lane for 80bucks a month if you have access to ftth lane or 27 bucks for full gigabit internet. Yes these both are consumer subscribtions) but still annoyed a bit.

Do you have some kind of limitations from your isp?

Hope nobody thinks i live in NORTH KOREA

[Electronics Wizardy]

Number of clients is all limited by router.

 

What router are you using? ISPs can't normally do this.

[Skiiwee29]

THey use what is called CPE, or Customer Premise Equipment in there .CM files the modems pull. This is setup to preserve IP space. On a LAN side on your own network, such as connected to your wifi router etc.. you can have as many as you want since that is using a NAT configuration, or Network Address Translation. 

 

I work in ISP support and write these config files and generally we set the limit from 1-3 depending on the customer and what they want/need, but for business packages we can set them up for 5 or more as well. 

[cengiz]

Never in the US, if your router and modem can handle it you will get traffic on all devices. All they should see is one router.

 

However, if you're plugging multiple things into the WAN there may be a problem there

[LienusLateTips]

Get a WiFi router with NAT, problem solved....

[Sooneung]

46 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

THey use what is called CPE, or Customer Premise Equipment in there .CM files the modems pull. This is setup to preserve IP space. On a LAN side on your own network, such as connected to your wifi router etc.. you can have as many as you want since that is using a NAT configuration, or Network Address Translation. 

 

I work in ISP support and write these config files and generally we set the limit from 1-3 depending on the customer and what they want/need, but for business packages we can set them up for 5 or more as well. 

 

18 minutes ago, LienusLateTips said:

Get a WiFi router with NAT, problem solved....

I forgot to mension this. WE ARE BEHIND THE ROUTER. Our devices get private ip addresses from the router(ap hub combo thing) and the router gets one public ip address.

[LienusLateTips]

Just now, Sooneung said:

 

I forgot to mension this. WE ARE BEHIND THE ROUTER. Our devices get private ip addresses from the router(ap hub combo thing) and the router gets one public ip address.

Your ISP shouldn't be able to detect, then...

[Skiiwee29]

2 minutes ago, Sooneung said:

 

I forgot to mension this. WE ARE BEHIND THE ROUTER. Our devices get private ip addresses from the router(ap hub combo thing) and the router gets one public ip address.

then yea, your ISP cant see those devices. All they can see is the devices connected directly to the modem and nothing else. 

[Sooneung]

9 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

then yea, your ISP cant see those devices. All they can see is the devices connected directly to the modem and nothing else. 

 

11 minutes ago, LienusLateTips said:

Your ISP shouldn't be able to detect, then...

I know! It's normal for them to not be able to see whats connected.

Some guy analyzed the packets and he found out isps actually intercepts the webpage, sends the client some code. Client calculates the unique code and sends it to isp (the intercepted server) thinking they are sending data to real server. Then isp uses this info to distinguish clients and redirect client if they exceed the limit of connected devices. This doesn't work on https (i think) , other protocols such as ftp. They allow mobile agents to connect and communicate freely even on http.

It's kinda insane to see isp actually intercepting the webpage (this is mitm attack after all) and collecting user data. The data being collected are:

- OS information

- Browser info

- Network (ip address) info using WebRTC vulnerability (to see if user is on private ip or public ip)

- GPU info using WebGL (this is just an assumption)

- Some other info he couldn't find out

 

https://gist.github.com/HelloKS/6631237f7f8f51bbd8c0b3e31b022854

This is raw data with sensitive info hidden.

 

Does your isp do this to you?

[Sooneung]

1 hour ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Number of clients is all limited by router.

 

What router are you using? ISPs can't normally do this.

I use the router ap hub combo unit from isp, but this applies even if we use other routers from... say asus, dlink etc

[Skiiwee29]

4 minutes ago, Sooneung said:

 

I know! It's normal for them to not be able to see whats connected.

Some guy analyzed the packets and he found out isps actually intercepts the webpage, sends the client some code. Client calculates the unique code and sends it to isp (the intercepted server) thinking they are sending data to real server. Then isp uses this info to distinguish clients and redirect client if they exceed the limit of connected devices. This doesn't work on https (i think) , other protocols such as ftp. They allow mobile agents to connect and communicate freely even on http.

It's kinda insane to see isp actually intercepting the webpage (this is mitm attack after all) and collecting user data. The data being collected are:

- OS information

- Browser info

- Network (ip address) info using WebRTC vulnerability (to see if user is on private ip or public ip)

- GPU info using WebGL (this is just an assumption)

- Some other info he couldn't find out

 

https://gist.github.com/HelloKS/6631237f7f8f51bbd8c0b3e31b022854

This is raw data with sensitive info hidden.

 

Does your isp do this to you?

This is usually done with DNS queries if you stay using there DNS servers. I would highly recommend you changing to open source DNS servers. Also, if you're parnoid about them seeing your traffic etc.. use a VPN to connect and then the traffic will be encrypted and they will not be able to decipher the packets to know what kind of traffic it is, where its from, where its going etc.. 

[Sooneung]

4 minutes ago, Sooneung said:

 

I know! It's normal for them to not be able to see whats connected.

Some guy analyzed the packets and he found out isps actually intercepts the webpage, sends the client some code. Client calculates the unique code and sends it to isp (the intercepted server) thinking they are sending data to real server. Then isp uses this info to distinguish clients and redirect client if they exceed the limit of connected devices. This doesn't work on https (i think) , other protocols such as ftp. They allow mobile agents to connect and communicate freely even on http.

It's kinda insane to see isp actually intercepting the webpage (this is mitm attack after all) and collecting user data. The data being collected are:

- OS information

- Browser info

- Network (ip address) info using WebRTC vulnerability (to see if user is on private ip or public ip)

- GPU info using WebGL (this is just an assumption)

- Some other info he couldn't find out

 

https://gist.github.com/HelloKS/6631237f7f8f51bbd8c0b3e31b022854

This is raw data with sensitive info hidden.

 

Does your isp do this to you?

This is the log. Red box is user, blue box is the isp monitoring server, and green is the original destination (like google.com)

[Sooneung]

Just now, Skiiwee29 said:

This is usually done with DNS queries if you stay using there DNS servers. I would highly recommend you changing to open source DNS servers. Also, if you're parnoid about them seeing your traffic etc.. use a VPN to connect and then the traffic will be encrypted and they will not be able to decipher the packets to know what kind of traffic it is, where its from, where its going etc.. 

Yeah i use vpn from time to time because of this. Btw, some said changing the dns didn't work

[Skiiwee29]

1 minute ago, Sooneung said:

Yeah i use vpn from time to time because of this. Btw, some said changing the dns didn't work

Not everything, but most of the data an ISP does/can collect is done via DNS query data. 

[LienusLateTips]

4 minutes ago, Sooneung said:

Yeah i use vpn from time to time because of this. Btw, some said changing the dns didn't work

You should still try it, it's free. 

[Sooneung]

6 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Not everything, but most of the data an ISP does/can collect is done via DNS query data. 

Oh speaking of dns, the Korean goverment is now sensoring out illegal contents both over http(using dns) and https(via listening to sni field and packet intercepting). This can't be solved unless we use vpn. This applies to all isp (i think only on consumer ones) and forced by governments. It's hard to explain with my english skills but it's like having a great firewall of china in korea. (Except we don't sensor out the political opinions.....YET)

[LienusLateTips]

Just now, Sooneung said:

Oh speaking of dns, the Korean goverment is now sensoring out illegal contents both over http(using dns) and https(via listening to sni field and packet intercepting). This can't be solved unless we use vpn. This applies to all isp (i think only on consumer ones) and forced by governments. It's hard to explain with my english skills but it's like having a great firewall of china in korea. (Except we don't sensor out the political opinions.....YET)

Some VPNs are pretty good with speed... you might be able to switch to one of those...

[Sooneung]

28 minutes ago, LienusLateTips said:

You should still try it, it's free. 

I already have it on my pc and android phone and tablet. I'm using cloudflare's dns service. (The 1.1.1.1) I've also installed vpn server on aws instance (what a impractical use of aws lol)

[LienusLateTips]

3 minutes ago, Sooneung said:

I already have it on my pc and android phone and tablet. I'm using cloudflare's dns service. (The 1.1.1.1) I've also installed vpn server on aws instance (what a impractical use of aws lol)

I'm happy that both of my home countries (ROC/Canada) uphold freedom of speech, have net neutrality, and don't scan internet packets....

 

Constitutional Court in Taiwan even overruled the government block on child pornography, just because it was technically censorship...

[Sooneung]

5 minutes ago, LienusLateTips said:

I'm happy that both of my home countries (ROC/Canada) uphold freedom of speech, have net neutrality, and don't scan internet packets....

 

Constitutional Court in Taiwan even overruled the government block on child pornography, just because it was technically censorship...

Good for you... I agree that government should block illegal drugs, crimes(like assassination) or child pornography but we are blocking even the torrents sharing sites and manga sharing sites. Now I have to wander around bit more to get xp iso.

[LienusLateTips]

1 minute ago, Sooneung said:

Good for you... I agree that government should block illegal drugs, crimes(like assassination) or child pornography but we are blocking even the torrents sharing sites and manga sharing sites. Now I have to wander around bit more to get xp iso.

Wow... that's BAD.

[Sooneung]

23 minutes ago, LienusLateTips said:

Wow... that's BAD.

Do you know what's hilarious? They didn't block some of the adults manga sites which has child pornography contents thing. Also the site admins keep changung urls. Even if its blocked, we can still visit the sites using free vpns, browser integrated vpn(like one in opera), proxys, google data saver and someone even came up with the idea of putting blocked url in google translate! Smart kid lol

And it didn't solve the fundemental problems. I mean we all know about tor network and torrents and the fact that there is some sort of propritary protocols used to sell and buy drugs, hire someone etc. lol

Edited May 4, 2019 by Sooneung

[Donut417]

15 hours ago, LienusLateTips said:

Your ISP shouldn't be able to detect, then...

Depends. If you use an ISP supplied gateway then they could have access. I’ve heard Comcast can back door in to their gateways and change settings even on the LAN side.

[aezakmi]

16 hours ago, Sooneung said:

It's kinda insane to see isp actually intercepting the webpage

literally all ISPs do this, if you don't use a VPN some dude might be monitoring what sites do you visit, your pc specs and where u live (your home address)

it's not crazy