Posted April 25, 2019 Here are my specs – so far, it’s been a good ‘mid-grade’ system but I’m starting to see limitations especially with VR games. The games run fairly well, but I do notice a bit of ‘jumping’ and most games run on lower settings. I don’t have a ton of money to go buy a GTX 2080 but would maybe a RX 580 be worth the upgrade? I suppose I could sell my RX 570 on ebay to recover a little money. What would give me the best ‘bang for the buck’ and not cost me $2-300? Thanks! ASRock B450M HDV Ryzen 5 2400g OC’d to 3.9ghz 8 GB 2400mhz RAM Gigabyte RX 570 4gb OC’d to 1400mhz Gigabyte 240gb SSD Seagate Baracuda 7200rpm 500gb HDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 "Upgrade" to a RX 580 from a RX 570 would be a waste of money, save up for a more meaningful upgrade. Personal Desktop": CPU: Intel Core i7 10700K @5ghz |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock Pro 4 |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z490UD ATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: RX 6900XT Sapphire Nitro+ |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot: SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro. Luna, the temporary Desktop: CPU: AMD R9 7950XT |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock 4 Pro |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Master |~| RAM: 32G Kingston HyperX |~| GPU: AMD Radeon RX 7900XTX (Reference) |~| PSU: Corsair HX1000 80+ Platinum |~| Windows Boot Drive: 2x 512GB (1TB total) Plextor SATA SSD (RAID0 volume) |~| Linux Boot Drive: 500GB Kingston A2000 |~| Storage: 4TB WD Black HDD |~| Case: Cooler Master Silencio S600 |~| Display 1 (leftmost): Eizo (unknown model) 1920x1080 IPS @ 60Hz|~| Display 2 (center): BenQ ZOWIE XL2540 1920x1080 TN @ 240Hz |~| Display 3 (rightmost): Wacom Cintiq Pro 24 3840x2160 IPS @ 60Hz 10-bit |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro (games / art) + Linux (distro: NixOS; programming and daily driver) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Author 1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said: "Upgrade" to a RX 580 from a RX 570 would be a waste of money, save up for a more meaningful upgrade. Okay, would you take the upgrading video card route? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, steelo said: Okay, would you take the upgrading video card route? Any suggestions? Considering your CPU and Memory configuration I wouldn't go higher than a Vega56 / RTX 2060 Personal Desktop": CPU: Intel Core i7 10700K @5ghz |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock Pro 4 |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z490UD ATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: RX 6900XT Sapphire Nitro+ |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot: SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro. Luna, the temporary Desktop: CPU: AMD R9 7950XT |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock 4 Pro |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Master |~| RAM: 32G Kingston HyperX |~| GPU: AMD Radeon RX 7900XTX (Reference) |~| PSU: Corsair HX1000 80+ Platinum |~| Windows Boot Drive: 2x 512GB (1TB total) Plextor SATA SSD (RAID0 volume) |~| Linux Boot Drive: 500GB Kingston A2000 |~| Storage: 4TB WD Black HDD |~| Case: Cooler Master Silencio S600 |~| Display 1 (leftmost): Eizo (unknown model) 1920x1080 IPS @ 60Hz|~| Display 2 (center): BenQ ZOWIE XL2540 1920x1080 TN @ 240Hz |~| Display 3 (rightmost): Wacom Cintiq Pro 24 3840x2160 IPS @ 60Hz 10-bit |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro (games / art) + Linux (distro: NixOS; programming and daily driver) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, steelo said: 8 GB 2400mhz RAM Is this 1x8 or 2x4? 2400 is already a little limiting for Ryzen, your CPU could use a little more bandwidth. I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B Primary PC: i7 8086k - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Skill Trident Z RGB - WD SN750 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - Hyper 212 Black (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G3 650W - dual booting Windows 10 and Linux - Black and green theme, Razer brainwashed me. Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference. How many watts do I need? ATX 3.0 & PCIe 5.0 spec, PSU misconceptions, protections explained, group reg is bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Upgrade your cpu when zen 2 comes out, plus add faster memory (and more quantity)and get an RTX 2060 I got a ps5 and a pc pretty ballin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Author 12 minutes ago, fasauceome said: Is this 1x8 or 2x4? 2400 is already a little limiting for Ryzen, your CPU could use a little more bandwidth. Sorry, forgot to mention it is dual channel 2x4gb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, steelo said: Sorry, forgot to mention it is dual channel 2x4gb Overclocking your ram will likely yield quite the performance increase, and reduce stuttering. Try taking it as far as you can. I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B Primary PC: i7 8086k - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Skill Trident Z RGB - WD SN750 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - Hyper 212 Black (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G3 650W - dual booting Windows 10 and Linux - Black and green theme, Razer brainwashed me. Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference. How many watts do I need? ATX 3.0 & PCIe 5.0 spec, PSU misconceptions, protections explained, group reg is bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, steelo said: Okay, would you take the upgrading video card route? Any suggestions? Yeah, given that your CPU (while not on the high performance end) is 4c 8t and overclockable, any upgrade there would be an expensive affair better used on a GPU. The 470 is a decent card for 1080P, but I agree that the 580 is not a big enough upgrade for the cost. I would venture that the suggested RTX 2060 or Vega 56 would be a nice upgrade path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, fasauceome said: Overclocking your ram will likely yield quite the performance increase, and reduce stuttering. Try taking it as far as you can. Agreed @Tristerin has been running an experiment with different RAM speeds on Ryzen CPUs across a bunch of different applications, and the results are crazy. 2400mhz drops performance significantly in many instances, where 3000 excels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Author 2 minutes ago, fasauceome said: Overclocking your ram will likely yield quite the performance increase, and reduce stuttering. Try taking it as far as you can. Yeah, I've attempted to overclock but anything higher than the rated 2400mhz causes the system not to post. I've played with voltages but never had any luck =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, steelo said: Yeah, I've attempted to overclock but anything higher than the rated 2400mhz causes the system not to post. I've played with voltages but never had any luck =( In that case, a ram upgrade might be worth considering. Not a super expensive upgrade either, DDR4 has good price retention on the used market. I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B Primary PC: i7 8086k - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Skill Trident Z RGB - WD SN750 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - Hyper 212 Black (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G3 650W - dual booting Windows 10 and Linux - Black and green theme, Razer brainwashed me. Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference. How many watts do I need? ATX 3.0 & PCIe 5.0 spec, PSU misconceptions, protections explained, group reg is bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, steelo said: Yeah, I've attempted to overclock but anything higher than the rated 2400mhz causes the system not to post. I've played with voltages but never had any luck =( https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/3BCD4D/crucial-ballistix-sport-lt-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-3000-memory-bls2k8g4d30aesbk These bad boys might be a good upgrade for the $80. You could even sell the old sticks for a bit of that back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Author 1 minute ago, trevb0t said: Agreed @Tristerin has been running an experiment with different RAM speeds on Ryzen CPUs across a bunch of different applications, and the results are crazy. 2400mhz drops performance significantly in many instances, where 3000 excels. I know RAM makes a huge difference if you use the Ryzens igpu but would I notice an improvement since I'm using a dedicated graphics card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, steelo said: I know RAM makes a huge difference if you use the Ryzens igpu but would I notice an improvement since I'm using a dedicated graphics card? Absolutely. Your system RAM is built to take loads off of your CPU directly. Since your graphics is also being processed by the CPU, it is going solely off of the system RAM as well... It probably needs it MORE than if you had dedicated graphics with its own built in DDR5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Author 3 minutes ago, trevb0t said: Absolutely. Your system RAM is built to take loads off of your CPU directly. Since your graphics is also being processed by the CPU, it is going solely off of the system RAM as well... It probably needs it MORE than if you had dedicated graphics with its own built in DDR5. Ah, okay...that makes sense. I don't know what my CPU usage is playing Oculus because for some reason, running MSI afterburner with VR completely crashes my graphics driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Author 6 minutes ago, trevb0t said: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/3BCD4D/crucial-ballistix-sport-lt-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-3000-memory-bls2k8g4d30aesbk These bad boys might be a good upgrade for the $80. You could even sell the old sticks for a bit of that back. Thanks, I'm in the U.S. I forget what my MB's highest RAM speed would be...so, would 3000mhz be a considerable difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, trevb0t said: Absolutely. Your system RAM is built to take loads off of your CPU directly. Since your graphics is also being processed by the CPU, it is going solely off of the system RAM as well... It probably needs it MORE than if you had dedicated graphics with its own built in DDR5. My apologies, I misunderstood. You have dedicated graphics, duh. So disregard this. However the research with Tristerin has shown substancial framerate drops when moving from 2133 to 3000 (heavily favoring the faster.) The difference is night and day in some cases, and he is also running discrete graphics. Quote Thanks, I'm in the U.S. I forget what my MB's highest RAM speed would be...so, would 3000mhz be a considerable difference? In some cases, drastic. In some, less so. 16GB is the general recommendation for gaming these days. See the above link for that upgrade path. I'd say it's great for the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 What kind of VR hardware are you running? VR can be fairly demanding, since it requires a certain performance level to keep you from getting sick. The 570 COULD be pretty underpowered for the task. This would depend on the VR hardware and the titles, really. I'm no sage of wisdom on VR stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Author 9 minutes ago, trevb0t said: What kind of VR hardware are you running? VR can be fairly demanding, since it requires a certain performance level to keep you from getting sick. The 570 COULD be pretty underpowered for the task. This would depend on the VR hardware and the titles, really. I'm no sage of wisdom on VR stuff. I agree, if I recall correctly the last time I ran orange room my graphics card was rated somewhere between 'minimum' and 'recommended' but closer to recommended...I don't remember the exact score. Right now, the main VR titles I play are star trek bridge crew, VR echo and robo recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, steelo said: I agree, if I recall correctly the last time I ran orange room my graphics card was rated somewhere between 'minimum' and 'recommended' but closer to recommended...I don't remember the exact score. Right now, the main VR titles I play are star trek bridge crew, VR echo and robo recall. Is it Occulus Rift that you're using then? What is your upgrade budget / location, my man? (sorry... Lady!) Let's do a little part picking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 @trevb0t thank you for the tag. RAM example from last nights tests: Both kits are 2x8 dual channel, one at 2133mhz and one at 3200mhz. Tests done on my Ryzen Rig (1) in my sig driving a nice Acer 144hz 2k monitor - I am now a firm, solid, believer in the Infinity Fabric. Battlefield 5 Ultra settings/all maxed out 2133mhz - unplayable, had to drop settings to High presets to achieve smooth 60+ FPS gameplay @ 2k. Up to full 1 second stutters when I would pull my trigger at Ultra settings...it was crazy bad. 3200mhz - 60 fps average on Ultra/all maxed out with the lowest FPS hit at 32 fps when the map would "drop you in" with highs in the 80 FPS Apex Legends Ultra settings/all maxed out I don't have my numbers in front of me but I want to say it was over a 10% difference (I remember BF5s tests last night astutely. Cant even measure the FPS difference...my R7 1700 just couldn't build the frame time without faster memory. 35 minutes ago, steelo said: I know RAM makes a huge difference if you use the Ryzens igpu but would I notice an improvement since I'm using a dedicated graphics card? YES. I used to be a naysayer. I can no longer say there isn't a stark difference. At minimum if I didn't achieve higher FPS (as in, the FPS was the same average) - I always achieved tighter frames - the lows were not so low and the highs were way more frequent. It really KEPT the average FPS tight. Workstation Laptop: Dell Precision 7540, Xeon E-2276M, 32gb DDR4, Quadro T2000 GPU, 4k display Wifes Rig: ASRock B550m Riptide, Ryzen 5 5600X, Sapphire Nitro+ RX 6700 XT, 16gb (2x8) 3600mhz V-Color Skywalker RAM, ARESGAME AGS 850w PSU, 1tb WD Black SN750, 500gb Crucial m.2, DIYPC MA01-G case My Rig: ASRock B450m Pro4, Ryzen 5 3600, ARESGAME River 5 CPU cooler, EVGA RTX 2060 KO, 16gb (2x8) 3600mhz TeamGroup T-Force RAM, ARESGAME AGV750w PSU, 1tb WD Black SN750 NVMe Win 10 boot drive, 3tb Hitachi 7200 RPM HDD, Fractal Design Focus G Mini custom painted. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 video card benchmark result - AMD Ryzen 5 3600,ASRock B450M Pro4 (3dmark.com) Daughter 1 Rig: ASrock B450 Pro4, Ryzen 7 1700 @ 4.2ghz all core 1.4vCore, AMD R9 Fury X w/ Swiftech KOMODO waterblock, Custom Loop 2x240mm + 1x120mm radiators in push/pull 16gb (2x8) Patriot Viper CL14 2666mhz RAM, Corsair HX850 PSU, 250gb Samsun 960 EVO NVMe Win 10 boot drive, 500gb Samsung 840 EVO SSD, 512GB TeamGroup MP30 M.2 SATA III SSD, SuperTalent 512gb SATA III SSD, CoolerMaster HAF XM Case. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/37004594? Daughter 2 Rig: ASUS B350-PRIME ATX, Ryzen 7 1700, Sapphire Nitro+ R9 Fury Tri-X, 16gb (2x8) 3200mhz V-Color Skywalker, ANTEC Earthwatts 750w PSU, MasterLiquid Lite 120 AIO cooler in Push/Pull config as rear exhaust, 250gb Samsung 850 Evo SSD, Patriot Burst 240gb SSD, Cougar MX330-X Case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Heres Apex's numbers from last night: Apex Legends on the same testing rig, monitor, all settings maxed out: 3200mhz: Starting screen 108 FPS (locked) Ave FPS dropping in 50 FPS Min FPS dropping in 46 FPS 2133mhz Starting screen 97 FPS (locked) AVE FPS dropping in 44 FPS Min FPS dropping in 32 FPS What I noticed - AVE FPS overall during gameplay was similar overall but the dips were far lower with 2133mhz. When dropping in, was the most obvious FPS loss. Quite the delta there! Workstation Laptop: Dell Precision 7540, Xeon E-2276M, 32gb DDR4, Quadro T2000 GPU, 4k display Wifes Rig: ASRock B550m Riptide, Ryzen 5 5600X, Sapphire Nitro+ RX 6700 XT, 16gb (2x8) 3600mhz V-Color Skywalker RAM, ARESGAME AGS 850w PSU, 1tb WD Black SN750, 500gb Crucial m.2, DIYPC MA01-G case My Rig: ASRock B450m Pro4, Ryzen 5 3600, ARESGAME River 5 CPU cooler, EVGA RTX 2060 KO, 16gb (2x8) 3600mhz TeamGroup T-Force RAM, ARESGAME AGV750w PSU, 1tb WD Black SN750 NVMe Win 10 boot drive, 3tb Hitachi 7200 RPM HDD, Fractal Design Focus G Mini custom painted. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 video card benchmark result - AMD Ryzen 5 3600,ASRock B450M Pro4 (3dmark.com) Daughter 1 Rig: ASrock B450 Pro4, Ryzen 7 1700 @ 4.2ghz all core 1.4vCore, AMD R9 Fury X w/ Swiftech KOMODO waterblock, Custom Loop 2x240mm + 1x120mm radiators in push/pull 16gb (2x8) Patriot Viper CL14 2666mhz RAM, Corsair HX850 PSU, 250gb Samsun 960 EVO NVMe Win 10 boot drive, 500gb Samsung 840 EVO SSD, 512GB TeamGroup MP30 M.2 SATA III SSD, SuperTalent 512gb SATA III SSD, CoolerMaster HAF XM Case. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/37004594? Daughter 2 Rig: ASUS B350-PRIME ATX, Ryzen 7 1700, Sapphire Nitro+ R9 Fury Tri-X, 16gb (2x8) 3200mhz V-Color Skywalker, ANTEC Earthwatts 750w PSU, MasterLiquid Lite 120 AIO cooler in Push/Pull config as rear exhaust, 250gb Samsung 850 Evo SSD, Patriot Burst 240gb SSD, Cougar MX330-X Case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 Author 3 minutes ago, Tristerin said: Heres Apex's numbers from last night: Apex Legends on the same testing rig, monitor, all settings maxed out: 3200mhz: Starting screen 108 FPS (locked) Ave FPS dropping in 50 FPS Min FPS dropping in 46 FPS 2133mhz Starting screen 97 FPS (locked) AVE FPS dropping in 44 FPS Min FPS dropping in 32 FPS What I noticed - AVE FPS overall during gameplay was similar overall but the dips were far lower with 2133mhz. When dropping in, was the most obvious FPS loss. Quite the delta there! That's quite interesting! I occasionally see stuttering playing star trek bridge crew, but I wouldn't rule out my internet connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 25, 2019 @Princess Cadence @fasauceome I know we've discussed this topic (Infinity Fabric) and Ive been quite the naysayer. The results lately in my tests have been well over 10% gains going from 2133mhz to 3200mhz with no timing tightening or anything. Figured I should apologize to you both for arguing without having my ducks in a row Workstation Laptop: Dell Precision 7540, Xeon E-2276M, 32gb DDR4, Quadro T2000 GPU, 4k display Wifes Rig: ASRock B550m Riptide, Ryzen 5 5600X, Sapphire Nitro+ RX 6700 XT, 16gb (2x8) 3600mhz V-Color Skywalker RAM, ARESGAME AGS 850w PSU, 1tb WD Black SN750, 500gb Crucial m.2, DIYPC MA01-G case My Rig: ASRock B450m Pro4, Ryzen 5 3600, ARESGAME River 5 CPU cooler, EVGA RTX 2060 KO, 16gb (2x8) 3600mhz TeamGroup T-Force RAM, ARESGAME AGV750w PSU, 1tb WD Black SN750 NVMe Win 10 boot drive, 3tb Hitachi 7200 RPM HDD, Fractal Design Focus G Mini custom painted. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 video card benchmark result - AMD Ryzen 5 3600,ASRock B450M Pro4 (3dmark.com) Daughter 1 Rig: ASrock B450 Pro4, Ryzen 7 1700 @ 4.2ghz all core 1.4vCore, AMD R9 Fury X w/ Swiftech KOMODO waterblock, Custom Loop 2x240mm + 1x120mm radiators in push/pull 16gb (2x8) Patriot Viper CL14 2666mhz RAM, Corsair HX850 PSU, 250gb Samsun 960 EVO NVMe Win 10 boot drive, 500gb Samsung 840 EVO SSD, 512GB TeamGroup MP30 M.2 SATA III SSD, SuperTalent 512gb SATA III SSD, CoolerMaster HAF XM Case. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/37004594? Daughter 2 Rig: ASUS B350-PRIME ATX, Ryzen 7 1700, Sapphire Nitro+ R9 Fury Tri-X, 16gb (2x8) 3200mhz V-Color Skywalker, ANTEC Earthwatts 750w PSU, MasterLiquid Lite 120 AIO cooler in Push/Pull config as rear exhaust, 250gb Samsung 850 Evo SSD, Patriot Burst 240gb SSD, Cougar MX330-X Case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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