Phase change evaporator heads

[kohh]

I was just wondering if anyone here knew of any readily made evaporator heads for phase change cooling. I have found maybe two options, only one is clearly a complete unit. I want to build my own system and am not opposed to building my own evaporator head, but I would like to see if there are any that I could just buy.
please and thanks <3

[Daharen]

Just because I saw no replies to this... I'll give you the 'best' answer I know of, and it's probably not what you're looking for...

However... You might be able to special order parts from these guys. I'm assuming since you're talking about evaporator heads, you're referring to passive phase change cooling, not active phase change with a separate chiller. If so this is about the only company I know right now that has active products that are on the market and work with that sort of thing. Supposedly a lot of other companies, including CoolerMaster, KoolLance, and CaseKings have products in the pipeline, but these sorts of products tend to only ever make it to show room floors, and get cancelled before they ever actually hit the market, so it would be naive to hope they actually provide anything

Anyway, here you go:

https://www.quantacool.com/polarbox-cpu-cooler 

[kohh]

2 hours ago, Daharen said:

Just because I saw no replies to this... I'll give you the 'best' answer I know of, and it's probably not what you're looking for...

However... You might be able to special order parts from these guys. I'm assuming since you're talking about evaporator heads, you're referring to passive phase change cooling, not active phase change with a separate chiller. If so this is about the only company I know right now that has active products that are on the market and work with that sort of thing. Supposedly a lot of other companies, including CoolerMaster, KoolLance, and CaseKings have products in the pipeline, but these sorts of products tend to only ever make it to show room floors, and get cancelled before they ever actually hit the market, so it would be naive to hope they actually provide anything

Anyway, here you go:

https://www.quantacool.com/polarbox-cpu-cooler 

Sorry dude I'm just getting into this phase change stuff, and as far as I was aware they were all called evaporator heads or cold plates. Please inform me.
I already looked at some of the quanta cool stuff but I made a completely separate post about that in this topic, but I'm talking about active phase change with an HVAC system (Compressor, condenser, evaporator).
So far I've only found a couple & I'm assuming its because my resources are short. I've seen a couple complete solutions but this is not what I'm looking for, I wish to build my own.
Want is all there is to do with it I don't need to be led away from wasting my money.
I simply want to make sure that whatever I end up uses works, ghetto solutions are always invited, so long as you can give me something to look at for it (a picture or a link <3).

[Benjeh]

People stopped doing phase change as it just became apparent that it was no longer needed as watercooling started getting people where they wanted to be. I always wanted to try it out but the money and the time you need to do it correctly is not worth it. The sub forum on overclock.net has been dormant for quite some time but it would probably be worth posting a thread there to get more information given most people on this forum don't even know how to set their RAM up correctly.

[Daharen]

I mean to be honest, 'active' phase change is functionally what aquariums do, so I don't see why you don't just use an aquarium chiller? That's what most do... If you are trying to 'integrate' into the case, that's a bit more difficult, but there are micro phase change chillers for KoolerLance for example, though you would need to do your own cable modifications if you wanted to hook it up to your own power supply, and program your own controller to keep it at a temperature so as to prevent condensation. 

Frankly TECs and Phase Change as 'active' cooling solutions are both incredibly energy wasteful, but that's fine if you want the expense, and you don't care about your electric bill (You better have a cheap bill though, as 'most' places will be paying between 100-200 additional dollars per month just for regular computer use, on top of whatever their current electrical consumption is). 

I'm working on a TEC build right now that will operate two independant loops, and only use the TECs when the system is running CPU/GPU intensive tasks, at which point it will change profile settings automatically, switch the loops, turn on the TECs, and overclock to the appropriate levels for benchmarking or extreme gaming. The system will probably cost me in the range of $5,000-$7,000 to make including all parts to allow it to be automated (I could make it 'significantly' cheaper by dropping all the profile stuff, and just manually turning a half dozen valves when I wanted to use the TECs, but I plan on using this case for the foreseeable future, and it's not a project about practicality, but just a hobby project to entertain myself). I haven't been able to think of any other way that you could 'reduce' the energy waste between using it at high loads with the TECs other then to make it so they are only utilized when you need them. 

Phase change cooling would have the exact same problem, but then to add insult to injury, it's also an extremely loud solution, which is why I went with TECs... Granted, it's a bit more energy efficient, but frankly, I think you need to either be balling enough to be able to make a rig this stupidly expensive, and pay the couple hundred extra per month, or just don't bother. a $50.00 difference in electrical cost per month when you're already spending an extra $100-150 is really kinda meaningless, if you're going to bother you might as well at LEAST try and make the experience decent, and not have a loud as phase change cooler running next to you, or in the case... 

Just my two cents... But yeah... Aquarium chillers...

[Daharen]

https://koolance.com/450W-chiller-subassembly-vlx-450

[Benjeh]

12 minutes ago, Daharen said:

Stuff

People moved to chill boxes instead, it reduces money waste and so on, You don't have to worry about condensation issues either. Overall I suggest this.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/133-phase-change/1533164-24-7-sub-zero-liquid-chillbox-club.html

[Daharen]

37 minutes ago, Benjeh said:

People moved to chill boxes instead, it reduces money waste and so on, You don't have to worry about condensation issues either. Overall I suggest this.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/133-phase-change/1533164-24-7-sub-zero-liquid-chillbox-club.html

That's actually really cool. I knew about it in concept, but, another thing I always figured just wasn't terribly practical. I mean it's still not going to be 'super' energy efficient, but probably a lot more. I would be inclined to say at that point vacuum pressurizing it (Not full vacuum, but just lower pressure) would probably be worth it, so as to increase the insulation of the loop, and decrease the probability of what little moisture exists inside the case potentially condensing and melting in a freak accident at just the wrong place and time (I understand the ice crystal theory, and the way it's supposed to operate, but as it said, it's required to be 24/7, and that obviously is because of the risk of post melt. Although it can't "build up" there is still some condensation, and if you let the PC turn off, you basically have to wait for a day or more if you want to be safe for whatever moisture exists inside the closed system to be reabsorbed into the ambient air inside it, so as to make sure you don't get unlucky and short circuit a component). 

Still, it's a good idea, and a lot more safe. When I helped friends put together phase change or TECs I generally just targeted 16c with a controller so as to avoid the condensation problem. It's still sub-ambient, but not so much that it becomes a problem, and while not offering SUPER amazing cooling and thus crazy overclocks, still makes a pretty good difference in performance (Enough to squeeze 0.1-0.2 Ghz out of the GPU and CPU clocks). 

[Benjeh]

2 minutes ago, Daharen said:

That's actually really cool. I knew about it in concept, but, another thing I always figured just wasn't terribly practical. I mean it's still not going to be 'super' energy efficient, but probably a lot more. I would be inclined to say at that point vacuum pressurizing it (Not full vacuum, but just lower pressure) would probably be worth it, so as to increase the insulation of the loop, and decrease the probability of what little moisture exists inside the case potentially condensing and melting in a freak accident at just the wrong place and time (I understand the ice crystal theory, and the way it's supposed to operate, but as it said, it's required to be 24/7, and that obviously is because of the risk of post melt. Although it can't "build up" there is still some condensation, and if you let the PC turn off, you basically have to wait for a day or more if you want to be safe for whatever moisture exists inside the closed system to be reabsorbed into the ambient air inside it, so as to make sure you don't get unlucky and short circuit a component). 

Still, it's a good idea, and a lot more safe. When I helped friends put together phase change or TECs I generally just targeted 16c with a controller so as to avoid the condensation problem. It's still sub-ambient, but not so much that it becomes a problem, and while not offering SUPER amazing cooling and thus crazy overclocks, still makes a pretty good difference in performance (Enough to squeeze 0.1-0.2 Ghz out of the GPU and CPU clocks). 

Chillerboxes are sealed so ambient temp doesn't matter, if you pressurise the box you're going to change how it cools etc along with it, sadly i have no knowledge in that field other than when I was a mechanic and dealing with sealed cooling loops on engines so quite literally the opposite of a chiller box. I looked into phase, tec you name it but it all meant way too much effort for neglegable results and way too much in cost, I still live at home and the economy here in the UK is truly on it's arse while the cost of living continues to soar.

I'd never humour the idea of a TEC or phase now, that was years ago when the GBP was actually G....

[Daharen]

3 minutes ago, Benjeh said:

Chillerboxes are sealed so ambient temp doesn't matter...

I got that, I meant more like in the event of a power failure. IE if the cooler stops cooling the loop, and stops cooling the chillerbox, then the moisture that 'froze' inside the box will 'slowly' melt as the temperature of your chillerbox equalizes with the outside ambient temperature. Obviously it's sealed and well insulated, so if you're lucky it will take awhile, and you can run it before that happens, but as anyone knows who lost power, eventually even well insulated and sealed sub-ambient devices equalize to room temperature. 

I think in the original post I used the term 'freak accident' appropriate, but also considering you have to keep it chilled 24/7 again the cost is huge... I mean with a 'normal' design you may have to put a shit ton of petroleum jelly all over your components, and wrap it with insulation, and keep everything super well protected (Or just not run sub-ambient)... But at least you can turn the thing off at night... I mean, I was saying 150+ on a power bill for just a 'normal use chiller build?' I think even with the insulated and sealed case, you'd be looking at more than that just because you have to keep it on all the time. It might be more efficient at maintaining it's temps, but still... ALSO why the hell are they using glass or plexiglass panels??? I mean I get it's pretty (Actually they are quite ugly with horrible management but whatever), but seriously you have ALL this insulation in either concrete, or silicon, or whatever you chose to use around the peripheries, and then you put a 2mm plexiglass lid on the thing that just bleeds away all that cooling over time? A little impractical... At the VERY least, put an insulating cover on it, and only open it to the glass when you need to look inside... 

Anyway, this started as a reply, and turned into a rant unrelated to your post, so I'll cut it off now...

[Benjeh]

5 minutes ago, Daharen said:

I got that, I meant more like in the event of a power failure. IE if the cooler stops cooling the loop, and stops cooling the chillerbox, then the moisture that 'froze' inside the box will 'slowly' melt as the temperature of your chillerbox equalizes with the outside ambient temperature. Obviously it's sealed and well insulated, so if you're lucky it will take awhile, and you can run it before that happens, but as anyone knows who lost power, eventually even well insulated and sealed sub-ambient devices equalize to room temperature. 

I think in the original post I used the term 'freak accident' appropriate, but also considering you have to keep it chilled 24/7 again the cost is huge... I mean with a 'normal' design you may have to put a shit ton of petroleum jelly all over your components, and wrap it with insulation, and keep everything super well protected (Or just not run sub-ambient)... But at least you can turn the thing off at night... I mean, I was saying 150+ on a power bill for just a 'normal use chiller build?' I think even with the insulated and sealed case, you'd be looking at more than that just because you have to keep it on all the time. It might be more efficient at maintaining it's temps, but still... ALSO why the hell are they using glass or plexiglass panels??? I mean I get it's pretty (Actually they are quite ugly with horrible management but whatever), but seriously you have ALL this insulation in either concrete, or silicon, or whatever you chose to use around the peripheries, and then you put a 2mm plexiglass lid on the thing that just bleeds away all that cooling over time? A little impractical... At the VERY least, put an insulating cover on it, and only open it to the glass when you need to look inside... 

Anyway, this started as a reply, and turned into a rant unrelated to your post, so I'll cut it off now...

You do realise that because it's sealed when you shut it off the temp won't increase right? it's sealed.

[Daharen]

Just now, Benjeh said:

You do realise that because it's sealed when you shut it off the temp won't increase right? it's sealed.

If it was a perfect seal that would be true. That would require nothing for heat to conduct through, IE suspension in a vacuum... Hermetically sealed objects have greater temperature change resistance, because a major method of temperature exchange is the movement of gas to equalize temperatures. However, conduction of temperature will also occur from the ambient air outside the case, and the air within the case through the insulated material and the glass/plexiglass. 

It will be 'slow' but not much slower than how long it takes your freezer to thaw after the power goes out, unless you have a vacuum barrier. 

[kohh]

4 hours ago, Daharen said:

I mean to be honest, 'active' phase change is functionally what aquariums do, so I don't see why you don't just use an aquarium chiller? That's what most do... If you are trying to 'integrate' into the case, that's a bit more difficult, but there are micro phase change chillers for KoolerLance for example, though you would need to do your own cable modifications if you wanted to hook it up to your own power supply, and program your own controller to keep it at a temperature so as to prevent condensation. 

Frankly TECs and Phase Change as 'active' cooling solutions are both incredibly energy wasteful, but that's fine if you want the expense, and you don't care about your electric bill (You better have a cheap bill though, as 'most' places will be paying between 100-200 additional dollars per month just for regular computer use, on top of whatever their current electrical consumption is). 

I'm working on a TEC build right now that will operate two independant loops, and only use the TECs when the system is running CPU/GPU intensive tasks, at which point it will change profile settings automatically, switch the loops, turn on the TECs, and overclock to the appropriate levels for benchmarking or extreme gaming. The system will probably cost me in the range of $5,000-$7,000 to make including all parts to allow it to be automated (I could make it 'significantly' cheaper by dropping all the profile stuff, and just manually turning a half dozen valves when I wanted to use the TECs, but I plan on using this case for the foreseeable future, and it's not a project about practicality, but just a hobby project to entertain myself). I haven't been able to think of any other way that you could 'reduce' the energy waste between using it at high loads with the TECs other then to make it so they are only utilized when you need them. 

Phase change cooling would have the exact same problem, but then to add insult to injury, it's also an extremely loud solution, which is why I went with TECs... Granted, it's a bit more energy efficient, but frankly, I think you need to either be balling enough to be able to make a rig this stupidly expensive, and pay the couple hundred extra per month, or just don't bother. a $50.00 difference in electrical cost per month when you're already spending an extra $100-150 is really kinda meaningless, if you're going to bother you might as well at LEAST try and make the experience decent, and not have a loud as phase change cooler running next to you, or in the case... 

Just my two cents... But yeah... Aquarium chillers...

This is all well and good, and beyond understood. But I think explaining my reasoning for wanting to do this would be long winded and a definite thread derailment.
I'll level with you though I want to play with both and I'm very much aware of that chiller, I just don't want a ready made solution. The fun for me is going to be putting everything together and making it functionally work.
The plan in general is to build a cluster and immerse it in oil (possibly chilled like with the koolance chiller you mentioned), and have a much more powerful, overclocked (direct die active phase change) system to act as the mother node, most likely housed separately.
Reasoning for this would also be long winded and lead to a definite thread derailment, I just hope it goes without saying that I wouldn't be playing any games on it.

I don't want to work with anything pre-built, because I want to hack together my own fan/hvac controllers and do all of my own wiring. The money saved on purchasing individual parts and giving life to frankenstein, will slightly cure my ocd about the other problems I'm going to encounter.
But yeah! CPU evaporator dies, gonna want one for sure, and I'll be very clear, it is just something that I personally want to do.

[Daharen]

More power to you man, maybe someone else can find something, but I think you might be looking to get something custom machined for you at that point. Depending on who you go with it can be affordable, but it's almost always email back and forth and get a direct quote, vice some sort of configurator, which kinda sucks. Still you might get lucky.

[kohh]

1 minute ago, Daharen said:

More power to you man, maybe someone else can find something, but I think you might be looking to get something custom machined for you at that point. Depending on who you go with it can be affordable, but it's almost always email back and forth and get a direct quote, vice some sort of configurator, which kinda sucks. Still you might get lucky.

That'll suck eggs. The two things I was looking at trying were 100% copper water blocks, and this. It has space for four heat pipes, if they were refrigerant pipe, it may work for my purposes, and I could just add another pass-through instead of a loop around if I needed additional cooling?
But like I said I'm just starting to get into this stuff, and all of my knowledge on the topic is self research.